Revive Our Hearts Podcast

Leslie Basham: Alan Parker has watched many women find healing from the effects of abortion.

Alan Parker: So many of the women who’ve gone through the abortion recovery programs become freed; they’re out of the darkness. They don’t have the shame of keeping it locked up, hidden from everybody, afraid somebody may find out.

That doesn’t mean you go around telling everybody all the time. But it means you don’t have any shame, and if it’s appropriate to share it with somebody, then you can minister with the comfort that God has given you to those who need the comfort of Jesus Christ.

Leslie Basham: This is Revive Our Hearts with Nancy Leigh DeMoss for Tuesday, January 20.

Nancy Leigh DeMoss: Thanks for joining us on Revive Our Hearts. As you know, today our nation marks the inauguration of a new president. Two passages have been on my heart—one in 1 Peter chapter 2 where we’re told, “Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God and honor the king” (verse 17).

So we are to respect and honor those that God has placed in positions of authority over us, certainly including the president of this country. And then Paul’s words to Timothy in 1 Timothy chapter 2 where he says,

I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and for all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way (verses 1-2).

Those are important reminders at this important juncture in our nation’s history. I want to encourage you to please be praying for our new president, that God will give him great wisdom at this time when our nation is facing so many difficult and important challenges.

Now this week has historical significance for another reason as well. We mark the fateful court decision Roe v. Wade that was made on January 22, 1973. Yesterday we heard about the companion case to Roe. It was called Doe v. Bolton. We heard from the "Doe" in that case.

Her real name is Sandra Cano. Today we’ll hear more from Sandra along with Alan Parker, who’s an attorney with The Justice Foundation. The Justice Foundation is a non-profit, pro-life organization that helps clients like Sandra Cano.

As we join this conversation that I had not long ago with Alan Parker, he compares the abortion issue with a situation described in Isaiah 28.

Alan Parker:Thus saith the Lord to the mockers who rule my people in Jerusalem” (verse 14, KJV).

So God is talking to the mockers, people who don’t believe in God or don’t follow God, but they’re in control. And it says,

Because you have said, "Behold we have made a covenant with death; we have made an agreement with the grave. The overwhelming scourge will not reach us because we’ve covered ourselves with fraud and deception” (verse 15).

Roe v. Wade and Doe v. Bolton are a covenant with death, an agreement with the grave by people who say, “Well, we don’t care whether there’s a God.” Or, “Man’s not made in the image of God.” Open wide oh grave. Here come 50 million people who will never see the light of day.

I found out later that the abolitionists had called Dred Scott a covenant with death. Dred Scott was the decision that made the same mistake Roe made: Slaves were not people; therefore, we can treat them as property and do what we want with them.

The Supreme Court said, “The child in the womb is not a person. So you can treat them as property and do whatever you want with them.”

Well that passage goes on to say, “Behold thus saith the Lord I have laid a stone in Zion, a sure foundation. He who believes in him will not be disturbed.” That’s Jesus.

And he said, “I will make justice the measuring line,” which was the standard and the rule we were going to argue to the Supreme Court. And he said,

Righteousness will be the plumb line. Waters will overflow the secret place. Hail will sweep away the refuge of lies and your covenant with death will be annulled. The agreement with the grave will not stand (verses 17-18).

That’s the promise that I have. The waters overflowing the secret place, I believe, are the tears of women. Because as we’ve collected the thousands of affidavits we have, I don’t know of any woman who’s done it without crying about it.

The pain of abortion is locked up in the secret places of women’s hearts. They don’t tell anybody. They don’t even tell their doctors about it when he says, “How many pregnancies have you had?” Women will put that one away.

It’s that water overflowing the secret place and a hail storm. It says the hail will sweep away. One little hail stone doesn’t change anything. If you’ve ever been in it, you know you look around nervous. But if it starts coming down, it could destroy this building. It can destroy buildings.

Abortion is supported by a structure of lies like:

  • It’s a woman’s choice.
  • It’s just a blob of tissue.
  • You can’t take care of a child right now.
  • You don’t want to have an adoption. You’ll wonder where the child is.

It’s better to kill the child than place it for adoption? All these bizarre lies that we believe.

It’s got to be the testimony of women coming forward, and now we have men as well. But really, for the court, I believe it’s got to be the women who have to tell the court, “You cannot kill your own child without producing intense pain in your own life.”

Nancy: And The Justice Foundation is in the process of gathering what you’re praying will be a million declarations from women. Tell us about those declarations.

Alan: That’s right. Eventually, we did file this evidence with the Supreme Court in both Norma’s case and Sandra’s case. We took them back to the Supreme Court.

The court declined to hear their cases directly. But the Supreme Court did site Sandra Cano’s brief. Her name now is in the Supreme Court record on the pro-life side. We represented Sandra and 180 women hurt by abortion in a brief, one of 50 that were filed. And by God’s grace, the only one the court cited (meaning they picked it out and they cited it) was the two pages of the women’s testimony.

The Supreme Court said, "This is not a pro-life movement." This is the Supreme Court of the United States who said, “Abortion can cause severe depression and loss of self-esteem.” So the Court recognized it.

The Court upheld the federal ban on partial-birth abortion. So this one gruesome method of abortion is illegal in every state of the United States. It is a limitation on Doe v. Bolton. I say that sometimes we want to battle in the long war. But the only way you win a war is to win a lot of battles along the way.

But the court also said, “At this point there’s no reliable data on the size of the phenomena or the size of the problem of women’s pain." That’s because women don’t talk about it, and the court doesn’t hear it.

So we are now in a campaign to raise a million voices, a million declarations, which is a simple written statement admissible in court to take back to the Supreme Court and to other state and national legislatures whenever they’re considering banning or restricting abortion.

We need the ladies and the men in your audience and in their churches and community groups as well to fill out these declaration forms for us. They can give us the information about how abortion hurt them confidentially. We as lawyers will protect their identity if they choose to have it protected, and we always protect their identity.

But their truth can be written down, and we will take it to the Supreme Court with Norma and Sandra and other women at no charge to them. They don’t have to be involved in the cases. The truth has to come forward, because if we don’t take the truth to the court, then the lie will win.

The only way for the lie to win is for those who know the truth to be silent. So it’s time to be silent no more and to speak up and let us have the information in writing. We will protect their identity, but we can take the truth of what abortion did to them back to the Supreme Court.

Nancy: Now I know we have many listeners right now who have had an abortion and have been hurt by that abortion, not only the loss of the baby’s life, but your life physically, emotionally, mentally. There have been adverse consequences.

You may never have talked to anybody about this. It may have happened five years ago, 10 years ago, 30 years ago, 40 years ago. We hear amazing stories from women who say, “Even before abortion was legal in this land I had an abortion.”

Women who are 60, 70, 80 years of age say, “I have never told anybody. I have lived with the shame of this. I have lived with the secrecy of this.”

Alan Parker here from The Justice Foundation is just encouraging these women to be silent no more. We’re encouraging you to be silent no more not only for your own healing and restoration and walk with the Lord, but also for the potential benefit of those down the road, lives that could be saved as a result of your willingness to talk, to write up your story.

Go to our website ReviveOurHearts.com and there you’ll find a link to this declaration. You can look at it and say, “Is this something I would be willing to fill out?” I just want to stress what Alan has said here. You can do this without having to disclose information about yourself that you would not want to, about who you are. They can keep this confidential; they will keep this confidential.

But wouldn’t it be an incredible thing to see a million of these declarations gathered that could be taken to not only the Supreme Court but the state courts. There are issues in the state courts that are surfacing regularly where they need to know that this is an issue that really does adversely affect women.

Alan: Later, I came to learn, Nancy, that when William Wilberforce, the great legislator in England, was working to end slavery, that it was sworn slave accounts that they used to help document. In America slave accounts and actual recordings of what happened in slavery were used to educate the public to the reality of what slavery was.

Even though people know abortion is going on, they really don’t know what it’s like. Unless people who’ve experienced abortion come forth and are truthful witnesses, that reality will continue to be hidden in darkness.

The other thing I want to say is that there is hope and healing for abortion. It is not the unforgiveable sin, as you know. We also have a 24 hour, 7 day a week helpline manned by people who’ve had abortions just like these ladies that is particularly confidential and really doesn’t come to us. It’s just to get them into an abortion recovery program that’s free, Christ-centered, biblically based in their area.

Nancy: And again if they’ll go to ReviveOurHearts.com that number is on the website. Tell us what happens if somebody picks up the phone, they call that number. What can they expect at the other end?

Alan: Well, at any time of the day or night they’ll be connected within a very short time to a person who’s had an abortion who’s gone through it just like they have, but who’s also gone through the healing process.

They will talk with them about it, just explore where the person who’s calling is at, ultimately saying, “Let me tell you about my healing,” and then helping that person get into a healing program in their local area.

Then with permission, they’ll follow up in a couple of weeks to make sure that they got into the program and that they’re getting the help they need.

Many women don’t even realize sometimes that it’s the abortion causing the problems in their life. They may have unresolved anger, feelings of worthlessness. They may have feelings of inability to make decisions because they feel like they messed up one of the biggest decisions in their life. Sexual dysfunctions can occur because there’s this lack of trust perhaps for men after that ,and things like that. So a wide variety of problems that they can talk to.

And even if people don’t think they’ve had problems, if you haven’t gone through the grieving process because you have lost a child, you have unresolved guilt and grief in your life. Most psychologists clearly agree that that can produce psychological problems.

Nancy: You must get to see and hear many stories of actual—I mean, we’re not just talking about statistics and numbers here and court cases. We’re talking about women’s lives and marriages and families.

Just tell us a story of a life that’s been impacted, somebody who’s found hope and grace and recovery as a result of these outreaches of the Justice Foundation.

Alan: I know we’ve been on radio programs like yours, and we also have a television program called Faces of Abortion.

I remember a lady who called in after hearing about us particularly on that show. It took her about a month to call. Eventually she called; she went through the abortion recovery program; she taught it in her own church for other women.

As she spoke out, other women would call and say, “I’ve had an abortion too.” She began to see incredible healing. Her pastor joined with her, and he began to speak out because pastors are afraid to address the issue sometimes.

And yet when other women hear that a woman is allowed to speak about it, there’s not condemnation. There’s forgiveness in Jesus Christ. They see that, and it opens up a lot of ministry opportunities. Eventually she was even speaking publicly and leading others in how to do post-abortion recovery and started her own ministry.

Nancy: It is important that we talk about this in our churches. That shouldn’t be the place where we can’t talk about the secrets and the shame. That should be a place where we can point people to Christ who really can set them free.

Alan: That’s so true. Another powerful story I remember was a minister whose daughter got pregnant, and he took her to have an abortion. He said that he drove along the highway and there were many exits, and he felt at every exit that he should turn. But he just didn’t want the people in the church to know about his daughter.

He felt that the boy was not appropriate for his daughter and he just took her there. He saw the death that came into the soul of his daughter and the change that occurred. Then he began to weep and repent as well.

So there is a tremendous amount of repentance that needs to go on. God hates the shedding of innocent blood. He was willing to send His own Son to shed His innocent blood to cover this sin of abortion for those who will turn to Jesus and say, “I was wrong. It was a sin. Forgive me Lord.” And turn to Jesus; He will forgive them.

That’s how serious it is that His own Son had to die on the cross to cover this blood with His innocent blood.

Nancy: And that’s our hope.

Alan: It is. It is. So many of the women who’ve gone through the abortion recovery programs become freed. They’re out of the darkness. They don’t have the shame keeping it locked up, hidden from everybody, afraid somebody may find out.

That doesn’t mean you go around telling everybody all the time. But it means you don’t have any shame. It’s appropriate to share it with somebody then you can minister with the comfort that God has given you to those who need the comfort of Jesus Christ.

Nancy: Alan, just a word about why you, as a man, care so much about this issue.

Alan: Well, when I first got into it I really didn’t think I was that involved. In fact, one time the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation asked me, “Have you had a personal experience with abortion?” And I said, “No.”

Five minutes later my wife came up to me and showed me a pair of baby shoes that she had put the name Matthew Patrick Parker on. Matthew Patrick Parker was the name my wife and I had always had, before we were married even, for a boy if we had had a son.

While we were married we were using contraception, a method called IUD, intra-uterine device. And my wife got sick. We went to the doctor and they said, “Well, you’ve had a baby, but the IUD has killed the baby, and we have to clean you up and do a D&C.”

We saw our baby boy. And Matthew Patrick Parker is what we named him. That was the only boy that we ever had. I have three lovely daughters for whom I’m deeply grateful, two son-in-laws, and a brand new baby girl granddaughter.

But I regret that my wife and I participated in abortion by IUD. My hope is I will see my son in heaven some day because I believe God protects those innocent. But I’ve had to repent of that.

Nancy: I know that many of our listeners want to know what can they do about this issue. You’ve given us one thing is that those who have had abortions can fill out these declarations because it’s important for the courts to realize that abortion hurts women. And these declarations are one way of communicating that.

I’m wondering for those who’ve not had an abortion, they’ve not been personally involved in this practice, what can they do to be involved to express God’s heart and concern on this issue?

Alan: Well Sandra is a wonderful example of what anybody can do with perseverance and just trying things. As you have said, anybody can download the material from our website and distribute it. We’d like them to become declaration ambassadors, D.A.'s in the justice system.

A declaration ambassador just takes the declaration form to Sunday School classes, women’s Bible study groups, wherever and says, “I’m excited about this.” You don’t even have to ask if they’ve had an abortion. Just pass it out. And the ones who’ve had an abortion will know it. If they don’t want to say anything publicly that’s fine. But they may take it home and fill it out. So anybody can do that.

Others can just speak up publicly like Sandra has been doing. In fact, she has a ministry called Wonderfully Made Ministry where she tells her story and speaks out about it. There’s something that everybody can do. And being a voice is the most powerful thing you can do.

Alexander Solzhenitsyn said, “The most powerful weapon in the world is a word of truth.” And of course, Jesus Christ is the Word of Truth ultimately.

Sandra: I think everybody needs to support The Justice Foundation because they’re not, as I call some people, plastic. They’re not plastic; they’re real. The work that they’re doing is sincere; it’s from their heart. And they are about saving lives and saving the unborn.

So they need everybody’s support.

Nancy: And what are you doing now at this season in this battle? You’ve got this ministry, Wonderfully Made. What are you hoping to accomplish through that?

Sandra: Well, a lot of people still don’t realize there’s Doe v. Bolton. They don’t understand the horror that it brought and still brings. And my mission is to get out and be a voice for the babies, the voiceless.

I want to get the lies, deceit, and fraud about Doe v. Bolton. And if it’s just one life we save, that’s one life that we saved that didn’t get killed to abortion. There’s a lot of work out there, but you can’t do it sitting at home and behind closed doors.

Your heart tells you to get out. If you believe in this so strongly and saving a life is strong. It’s something that we all should do because life is precious. I don’t care what your circumstances are. I’ve been in just about every one that you can think of.

But God did not put on my heart to take my baby. There are a lot of women making this mistake. As a matter of fact, I tell Mr. Parker the third baby that I gave up for adoption, the third child I gave up along with the Supreme Court, we’ve been in contact for two years.

I’m going to get to visit her. She’s coming up here to visit me. With abortion there is no second chance. It’s a done deal. You took your baby’s life. You’re in for a lifetime of pain and hurt.

But with adoption you do have your child. You can see her again.

Alan: Sandra also at this time takes care of two of her grandchildren. And both of them are special needs children.

Sandra: Autistic.

Alan: Sometimes people say, “Well, why shouldn’t we get rid of children like that?” And Sandra what would your answer be to that?

Sandra: Every child is entitled to life. God created it. I don’t care if they were here with no legs, no arms. They’re special. They have a place in this world to contribute, maybe not to the extent that a lot of people think, but their life is precious.

My kids can give me lots of problems. I wouldn’t be in reality if I didn’t say they did. But I love them, I thank God for them, and I would not trade any. I’d do it all over again to fight the battles we’re fighting because I love them. It’s the greatest gift God ever gave to me.

Nancy: Well, I want to thank both of you for what you’ve done and what you’re doing to speak up for these helpless ones who can’t speak for themselves. It’s a battle. It’s a spiritual battle. I’m sure you’re more aware of that even than I am. But the enemy is a destroyer. He comes to kill and destroy.

And Jesus came to give life. I want to thank both of you for your courage and your faith and your perseverance in the battle, for representing the heart of the Lord and His compassion and His tenderness and also for caring for these women who’ve been affected by abortion or who will be if they don’t get this message.

There are lots of women making wrong choices, sinful choices, but whose lives can be redeemed and restored by God’s grace. Thank you for being beacons to point people to the amazing grace of Jesus Christ who really can rescue these women’s lives.

Leslie Basham: Nancy Leigh DeMoss has been talking with Alan Parker from The Justice Foundation and Sandra Cano from the ministry Wonderfully Made. They’re telling a story you don’t hear all that often. The women represented in the Roe v. Wade decision are now working to overturn abortion laws in this country.

This week we’re marking that fateful decision which took place January 22, 1973. We’d like to send you this series on CD. It includes the interviews with Sandra Cano you heard today and yesterday and it includes a conversation with Luana Stoltenberg about finding forgiveness even after abortion.

When you make a donation of any size to Revive Our Hearts we’ll show our gratitude by sending this series on CD. Visit ReviveOurHeartsRadio.com to make your donation or call 1-800-569-5959.

Women everywhere in the church and outside are deeply affected by their decision to abort. Hear how to find forgiveness and healing tomorrow on Revive Our Hearts.

Revive Our Hearts with Nancy Leigh DeMoss is an outreach of Life Action Ministries.

All Scripture is taken from the English Standard Version unless otherwise noted.

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