Revive Our Hearts Podcast

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Mature Women and Godly, Manly Elders

Leslie Basham: If your husband is immature, can you still submit to him? Dr. Voddie Baucham offers this scenario.

Dr. Voddie Baucham: God comes to your home for your husband to take him to the woodshed. Number one, you've been a biblically, submissive wife, so your husband gets to go to the woodshed by himself. Or number two, you've been holding on to your submission until your husband gets right, so you get to go to the woodshed with him. How many of you want to take number one? Amen?

Leslie: This is Revive Our Hearts with Nancy Leigh DeMoss for Tuesday, August 17.

Titus chapter 2 is a rich passage for women. It offers a list of qualities God wants to develop in us as women. Nancy has taught on that powerful passage here on Revive Our Hearts. You can listen to that in-depth teaching or read the transcript at Just look up the series, God’s Beautiful Design for Women: Living out Titus 2:1-5.

Yesterday, we heard Dr. Voddie Baucham teach through Titus 2.

Nancy’s here to introduce the second part of that message.

Nancy Leigh DeMoss: God provides mature, godly men and women in the church. And He uses those mature men and women to teach those who are less mature. Pastor Voddie Baucham made that point on yesterday's broadcast.

We listened to the first part of a message he delivered at the True Woman Conference in Chattanooga this past March. I believe it's important for us as women to hear a pastor's perspective at these conferences. That's why Crawford Loritts will be joining us for the conferences in Indianapolis and Ft. Worth this fall. For more details about either of those conferences, visit us at

Pastor Voddie Baucham's message at the Chattanooga True Woman Conference was a powerful introduction to the entire weekend. He explained the value of mentoring, especially among women who want to develop the godly qualities that we read about in Titus chapter 2.

Now let's pick up with his second point.

Dr. Baucham: Look at the second leg: Godly, manly elders and pastors in the church. Why do I say that? Well, here’s what’s interesting: With older women and younger women, there’s a list, there’s guidance there. You older women, you give them these things; younger women, you look for these things from the older women.

Then for the younger men, you look at the next one, and it says, “Likewise, urge the younger men to be self-controlled” (verse 6). Yes, that’s it. Younger men ought to be saying, “Wait a minute. Where’s our list?” By the way, women ought to be saying this, too, because men are walking around going, “Yeah, I’m looking for a Proverbs 31 woman and a Titus 2 woman.” Young women are walking around going, “Yeah, I’m looking for a . . . man” (laughter)

Where’s your passage? Your passage is in Titus chapter 1. That’s not the list for men. Now I know there are some sophisticated women here who are saying, "That's not the list for men. That’s actually the list for pastors. That’s the list for elders.”

I know, but it’s also the list for men.

“Well, no, it’s not the list for men because it’s the list for pastors and elders.”

Let me give you three reasons why this list is actually a list for all men. Here’s three reasons:

Reason number one—it’s my weakest reason—reason number one: There’s no list in Titus chapter 2. (laughter) I said it was my weakest reason, but it’s a reason. There’s no list in Titus chapter 2, so there’s got to be one somewhere, right?

Here’s my second reason: Pastors are called in 1 Peter chapter 5, verse 3, to be examples to the flock.

Let me ask you a question: How can a pastor be an example to the flock if he has a list of qualifications that don’t relate to the rest of the flock?

“Pastors, I want you to be an example to the flock, but what I want you to be is something the rest of the flock is not called to.”

So the pastor looks at the flock and says, “Look at me as I am an example of what you’re not called to be.” That just doesn’t work.

Here’s the third reason I argue that this list is the list for all men: Because there’s nothing in this list that any one of us is willing to give up on for any one of our sons.

Let’s look at it: Titus chapter 1, beginning in verse 5:

This is why I left you in Crete, so that you might put what remains into order, and to appoint elders in every town as I directed you.

Now here comes the list. The first part of the list goes to his life in his home. Look at this part of the list, and I just ask you: Are you willing to give up on any of this for your sons? It says,

If anyone is above reproach, the husband of one wife (verse 5).

“Naw, not my son. I want my son to be a player from the Himalayas. I want him to have women strewn all across the land.”

Absolutely not! Next verse:

And his children are believers not open to the charge of debauchery and insubordination (verse 6).

“Uh,uh. I want him to raise my grandkids to be the worst, baddest kids that you ever saw in your life.”


Well, now. Let’s look at his character. Look at the next part of this:

For an overseer, as God’s steward, must be above reproach. He must not be arrogant or quick-tempered or a drunkard or violent or greedy for gain (verse 7).

They’re the negative ones. Again, none of us is willing to give up on any of those. Look at the next ones, verse 8:

But hospitable, a lover of good, self-controlled, upright, holy, and disciplined.

Again, we’re not willing to give up on any of those. Look at verse 9. “Well, verse 9 goes specifically to his teaching ministry, right? So maybe that doesn’t apply to every man.” Really?

He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught.

Anybody want to raise a son who’s a heretic? No! Look at the next part:

So that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine (verse 9).

“Naw, I don’t want him to be able to wash his wife in the water of the Word. I mean, of course, I want my husband to step up and be more godly; I want my husband to lead in the Word. I want my husband to feed the Scriptures to us as a family. I want my husband to be the priest of our home. I want my husband to be the chief discipler of our home, but it’s not really going to be required for my son.” Finally,

And also to rebuke those who contradict it (verse 9).

He has to be an apologist. By the way, Jude makes it clear that all of us are called to contend earnestly for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.

So I say, again, this is the list for all men. So for you young women here in the room, when you hear young men say, “I’m looking for a Titus 2 woman, a Proverbs 31 woman,” you just look at him and say, “Yeah, but I’m looking for a Titus 1 man. What you got?”

Here’s the beauty: God gives us godly, manly elders and pastors to model for us what manhood is. This is extremely important.

Let me say a word to you if you’re a single mother: If you’re a single mother, your son needs this. If you’re a single mother, your son desperately needs to be in an environment where he has a pastor who thunders the Word of God with both his lips and his life. Do not sit your son in front of some weak, mealy mouth, sissified, almost-man who calls himself a pastor. (applause) Godly, manly preachers of the Word who stand on God’s truth and defend God’s truth and paint a picture on an on-going basis, though frail and imperfect, of what manhood is supposed to look like.

My mother didn’t even know the Lord when she was raising me and understood this. When I was old enough to find a little trouble in South Central, or for a little trouble to find me, my mother decided, “Time’s up. He’s a young man. There’s some things he needs that I can’t give him.” So I got on a bus for three days and went from Los Angeles, California, to Beauford, South Carolina, to spend a year and a half with her oldest brother who was a retired drill instructor in the Marine Corps. And I got out of trouble. (laughter)

Why? Because my lost mother had a picture of manhood. It was the best that she knew, and she wanted to see to it that that’s what her son grew into. I thank God for His providence in my life through the work of my mother.

How much more for those who know and love the Lord Jesus Christ, who is the ultimate picture of what a man is supposed to be, how much more should we yearn and desire and long for our sons to be set before men who are men and paint a picture of that for them?

There’s a last piece—remember the third piece? There’s godly mature men and women in the church; there’s godly manly elders and pastors, and the last piece is biblically functioning homes. Now we’ve already seen evidence of that in Titus chapter 2 because when you look at the instruction of the older woman to the younger woman, that instruction centers around her role and function within the context of her home. You see that? To love your husband and children, to be sensible and pure, to be a keeper of your home, or a worker at home, all of these things center around the context of that ministry that a woman would have.

There’s another thing I want you to see that you may not have ever seen before. Keep reading in Titus chapter 1. Look beginning at verse 10: “For . . .” Now, for what? What’s that “for” for? Remember, in verse 9:

Holding firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he can instruct in sound doctrine and rebuke those who contradict sound doctrine. For . . .

Why does he need to have this kind of character and this kind of teaching and rebuke unsound doctrine?

For there are many who are insubordinate, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision party. They must be silenced, because they are upsetting whole . . .

Sunday school departments by teaching . . . (laughter) That’s not what it says.

They must be silenced since they are upsetting whole families by teaching for shameful gain what they ought not to teach (verse 11).

They’re upsetting whole families. Here’s what you need to know: The primary teaching and discipling unit that makes up the church is the home. Ephesians chapter 6, verses 1-4:

Children, obey your parents in the Lord for this is right. Honor your father and your mother, which is the first commandment with a promise, that it may go well with you and you may live long in the land. Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.

That echoes the teaching of Deuteronomy 6. It echoes the teaching of Psalm 78. It echoes the teaching that we find strewn throughout Proverbs, and it says this: Our homes are places of teaching and instruction for our children, that it is our responsibility to teach God’s Word in our home.

So here’s the picture—now listen to this. A child is born. Now, this is ideal. Most of us didn't have anything like this, but this is the picture. A child is born. A child comes into the world.

  • A child is born into a home with a mother and a father. That mother and that father know God and love God.
  • That mother and that father understand biblical manhood, true womanhood, and live and exemplify those things.
  • That mother and that father understand marriage and paint the picture of a relationship between Christ and His Church.
  • That mother and that father give instruction in sound doctrine to that child throughout that child’s life, and they raise that child in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.
  • They take that child to a healthy church, and in that healthy church, this child, over the course of its life, hears thundered from the pulpit the Word of God just like that child had taught in the home.
  • The child sees it thundered from a godly, manly man who lives as men ought to live.

And, by the way, when I say “manly man,” I’m not talking about (in gruff-sounding voice) “Me, mine; you, woman. Me speak; you do.” No. I’m talking about Christ and His example of true manhood. So he sees the life of this man and hears the words of this man, and it echoes what he hears in his home.

  • Then there are these people—they’re older, and they’ve got gray hair. Some of them don’t walk so fast anymore, but they also echo what this child hears taught in her home.

 There are some women in this room right now, and you’re a younger woman, and the culture has lied to you. It has told you that everything is about youth; everything is about your generation. You want nothing to do with older women. Shame on you. Repent!

There are older women in this room right now, and you are older and mature, but for whatever reason, you’re stuck, and you refuse to stand up and give your life away. Instead, all you think about is what you can be given next. If that’s you, would you just confess that as the sin that it is and turn around and give your life away?

“Yes, but you don’t understand. I made mistakes in my life.”

Oh, really? Okay, that’s fine. You’re right. You’re disqualified. Only those people who’ve never made mistakes in their life are qualified to be mature, Christian leaders, so only those people . . . If you’re one of those people, could you stand up, please? The ones who’ve never made mistakes? Do you hear how ridiculous that sounds?

Christ came and died for the ungodly.

“Yeah, but I didn’t do it right. I didn’t raise my kids right.”

How about this . . . I don’t know about you, but this blesses me. When an older man will put his arm around me and say, “Listen, I want to tell you something: I see this in you, and I just want you to know, I’ve been on the other side of that. It doesn’t end pretty. I’ve messed up my life. I messed up my family. Don’t do that.”

You know what? I’ll take that. I’m grateful for that. If that’s all you got, give it away.

How about that second leg?

“Oh, we just don’t have a healthy church. We don’t have healthy leaders in our church.”

First of all, before we get there, if you do have a healthy church, and if you do have healthy leadership in your church, can you just be grateful for that? Can you just thank God for the opportunity to hear the Word of God? If you don’t and if it’s because of your own sin of rebellion, will you confess that?

There are some of you here, you don’t go to church because you haven’t found the perfect one yet. You know that old saying, don’t you? “Find the perfect one; don’t go, ‘cause when you get there, it won’t be perfect anymore.” (laughter)

Some say, “I don’t have that biblically functioning home.”

You know what? Before we get there, if you do, if you’ve got a godly husband, if you do, and you have this picture being lived out, this imperfect picture being lived out, can you just be grateful for that? But if you don’t, and it’s because of your own sin, then because you’ve embraced the lie instead of living in biblical submission to your husband, you’re one of these women who says, “Yes, well, I’ll do that part in Ephesians chapter 5 that says I’m supposed to submit to him when he does that part of Ephesians chapter 5 that says he’s supposed to love me like Christ loved the Church. But until he does that, then I’m just not even going to be . . .”

No, sorry. It doesn’t work that way. If you’re waiting for your husband to be worthy of your submission, it’s not going to happen. In fact, that’s why they call it submission. Amen? Your husband is never going to be worthy of your submission, but you submit as unto the Lord because He is worthy of your submission, so you offer that submission to Christ, but you give it to your husband on behalf of Christ. That’s what you do.

No, your husband is not worthy of it, but here’s what I know: 1 Peter chapter 3, verses 1-6, God can actually use your submission in your husband’s life.

Here’s what I also know. If your husband is not being what he’s supposed to do, you’ve got two choices: because number one, God’s going to get your husband. I just believe that with every fiber of my being. God’s going to get him. He’s not being what he’s supposed to be. You’ve got two choices. God comes to your home for your husband to take him to the woodshed. (laughter) Number one: You’ve been a biblically submissive wife, so your husband gets to go to the woodshed by himself. Or number two: You’ve been holding on to your submission until your husband gets right, so you get to go to the woodshed with him. (laughter and applause)

How many want to take number one? Amen?

But remember, I also said that for some of us in this room, you don’t have one of those things or more, not because of your own sin or your own fault, but because of things that are out of your control. Here’s what I want to say to you: God’s bigger than what you don’t have.

Now you know what to pray for. You know what to ask Him for.

“I don’t have godly mature women in my life, so I’m just going to give up.”

You better not. You beg God for it, and you look for it.

“I don’t have a godly, biblically functioning church, so I’m just going to give up.”

You better not. You get on your face, and you beg God for it.

“Yeah, but my husband won’t go to church. My husband won’t take us to church. My husband has us in a church. . .”

You get on your face and beg God. You know what to look for. You know what to ask for.

You don’t have a biblically functioning home? God is bigger than what you don’t have.

In my Freshman year in college, a young man comes to the locker room and shares Christ with me. He spends three and a half weeks with me—three and a half weeks answering my questions. I came to faith in Christ Friday, November 13, 1987. Six months later my Buddhist mother is converted. Six months after that my garden-variety, pagan father who abandoned me and my mother when I was two years old was converted.

God is able.

Here’s what else I wanted you to know, because some of you are out there, and you’re saying, “Yes, but my situation is less than ideal.” Here me when I say this: I am a frail, fragile, and imperfect man, but I’m grateful to God for a seventeen-year-old girl who got pregnant with me when she was in high school, who did the best she could with what she had, and I’m grateful to God that in His providence, in spite of what we did not have, God has made me a man that my mother can be proud of. (applause)

You have no control over what you don’t have, but here’s what I know: God can do more with what you don’t have than you can do with what you do.

Nancy: That message from Voddie Baucham was so full of hope. I know many of you would like to have a copy of that message so that you can listen to it again or share it with a friend. I'll tell you in just a moment how you can get a CD of that message.

I'm so thankful for the reminder we heard from Dr. Baucham, that you can leave a lasting legacy no matter what kind of background you may have. So have you been investing in your children? Teaching them the ways of God? Or have you allowed excuses to keep you from pressing in, staying involved in their lives and leaving a godly legacy?

Voddie Baucham delivered that message to open the True Woman Conference this past March in Chattanooga. I was so grateful for the way that Dr. Baucham set the stage that night. Showing how a serious study of God's Word intersects with the difficult realities of life.

When you come to a True Woman Conference, you'll spend a lot of time in God's Word, growing in your understanding of His ways. You'll also be challenged to inject the Truth that you hear into the reality of your day-to-day life.

You'll leave the conference encouraged and desiring to live out the biblical principles that you've learned. So I want to encourage you to set aside a weekend to meet with God and to hear His unique plan for your life as a woman and to come back home changed.

I hope you'll enjoy us for the True Woman Conference September 23-25 in Indianapolis or in Ft. Worth October 14-16. For details on how to register for the conference, call us on our special True Woman number at 877-966-2608, or visit us at and get the details.

We're continually hearing how lives were changed at the True Woman Conference in Chattanooga. God did some amazing things there. But hosting three True Woman Conferences this year has been a huge undertaking—administratively and financially as well.

We're able to offer these conferences and to continue airing this broadcast in your area thanks to listeners like you who give to support this ministry financially. We could really use your support at this time.

When you send a gift of any amount to Revive Our Hearts, we'll send you the message that we heard today from Voddie Baucham. You can add this important sermon on CD to your collection or share it with others who may need this word of encouragement in their life.

You can make a donation at, or give us a call at 1-800-569-5959.

Now, the phrase "girls gone wild" has entered into pop culture vocabulary over the last few years. But it is really a very old concept. Proverbs chapter 7 describes a girl gone wild—showing us how destructive her behavior is.

My friend, Mary Kassian, also a speaker at the True Woman Conferences, also unpacks this chapter, Proverbs chapter 7, inviting you to be a "girl gone wise." Don't miss our conversation beginning tomorrow. Please be back for Revive Our Hearts.

Revive Our Hearts with Nancy Leigh DeMoss is an outreach of Life Action Ministries.




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About the Teacher

Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth

Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth

Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth has touched the lives of millions of women through Revive Our Hearts and the True Woman movement, calling them to heart revival and biblical womanhood. Her love for Christ and His Word is infectious, and permeates her online outreaches, conference messages, books, and two daily nationally syndicated radio programs—Revive Our Hearts and Seeking Him.

She has authored twenty-two books, including Lies Women Believe and the Truth That Sets Them Free, Seeking Him (coauthored), Adorned: Living Out the Beauty of the Gospel Together, and You Can Trust God to Write Your Story (coauthored with her husband). Her books have sold more than five million copies and are reaching the hearts of women around the world. Nancy and her husband, Robert, live in Michigan.