Revive Our Hearts Podcast

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Male and Female for Christ

Dannah Gresh: Abigail Dodds says our society is asking some fundamental questions:

Abigail Dodds: Is a female body good? Is a male body good? And who gets to say what body I have? The simple fact of the matter is, I don’t get to choose my body; I don’t get to choose my sex. And when God made the male and female bodies, in Adam and Eve, He said, “Very good!”

Dannah: This is the Revive Our Hearts podcast with Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth, author of Lies Women Believe: And the Truth That Sets Them Free, for May 5, 2021. I’m Dannah Gresh.

Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth: There’s no question that when we look around us, we see mass confusion in our world on so many fronts. But one of the ones that is most concerning and disheartening to me has to do with the fundamental mission of Revive Our Hearts.

I’m talking about something that I’m sure you’ve been hearing about if you listen to any news or read any social media, and that is the controversy over what it means to be a boy or a girl, a man or a woman. There are those who are saying, “We can’t know who is a boy or who is a girl,” and maybe that it doesn’t even matter at all.

Of course, that’s what we’re hearing in the society around us. But thankfully, as Christians we are not called to live by society’s norms and standards. God’s Word beautifully and firmly cuts through the confusion with simple statements like what we read in Genesis chapter 1. Verse 27 says, 

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

And then just a few verses later, Genesis 1:31: 

And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. 

Today’s program touches on what God’s Word has to say, particularly to us as women, and how we can look to the Scripture for our definition and our sense of identity. 

This conversation took place shortly before the pandemic, at the tail end of the Sisters in Ministry summit here at Revive Our Hearts. Let’s listen together.

Dannah: We have just had a very exciting week here at Revive Our Hearts, where almost thirty women gathered to really talk about the subject of—and be fueled up with God’s truth concerning—womanhood. One of those women was a very familiar voice and friend. Welcome, Mary Kassian!

Mary Kassian: Yes! Glad to be here, so excited to be here! And wow! 

Dannah: What energy!

Mary: What energy! A room of thirty-odd women that met together and just talked about journeys. One of the big topics was, how do we do this journey as a woman?

Dannah: Guided by the Bible! And wasn’t it a soothing balm that we had this like-mindedness, so that we didn’t have to worry about if the Bible should be our guide for how to be a woman, but that we could just dig into what it says.

Mary: Exactly! Just to go into the riches and go, “We are on the same page in thinking that the Bible is instructive for us as to how we live our lives as Christians—and how we live our lives particularly as women.”

Dannah: Yes, I feel so excited about this! One of those women joining us this week was Abigail Dodds. She’s a wife, a mother of five children, writes and teaches Bible studies for her home church where her husband Tom is an elder. She has just written a new book called (A)Typical Woman.

Mary: No, Dannah, I think it’s (A)Typical Woman.

Dannah: You know, I think you might be right, because it’s (“A” in parentheses): (A)Typical Woman, as in “not typical.”

Mary: Like not “a typical woman”

Dannah: Maybe we should ask her about it.

Mary: Maybe we should.

Dannah: Welcome to the program, Abigail. We’re so happy to have you today!

Abigail: Thanks for having me! You got it right, it’s “atypical,” meaning kind of “odd or misfit, doesn’t quite fit in, not typical.” That’s the heart behind the book.

Dannah: Before we talk too much directly about the book, take us back to when you were seventeen years old. You were sharing with me that that’s when God really started to open your heart to look at the Scriptures and let that be the guide for what kind of woman you would become. What happened when you were seventeen?

Abigail: Yes, when I was seventeen I remember reading a book on the Proverbs 31 woman. I remember just being thrilled, like, “Oh, there’s a part of Scripture that was written just for me! Great. I’ll take notes; I will mark this up. I will take this home. Now I have my manual for life!”

And yet, it didn’t take long for there to be some tension around this as I thought, Well, wait, maybe I don’t need the rest of the Bible.

Mary: Mmm, “I’ve got Proverbs 31. It tells me everything I need to be a woman.”

Abigail: “I’ve got this Proverbs 31. Everything I need is here!” In some ways, it almost made the gospel superfluous for me, because I thought, “Well, this is what I’m supposed to be about. I’m supposed to just work real hard at this, and then I’ll be God’s woman.” 

And so, it was a process for me of realizing that’s not how the Bible is meant to work. Yes, the Bible gives us instructions for life, but if we don’t have a new heart, we don’t see any of those properly. And so, while Proverbs 31 is this beautiful picture that to this day I love and adore and would want to follow and is a wonderful example, it’s not the totality of God’s Word.

Mary: Do you know what I’ve sometimes heard Proverbs 31 called, or the passages about womanhood? “Pink passages.” Like, just passages that relate to womanhood.

Dannah: Titus 2, Proverbs 31 . . .

Mary: Some people avoid those passages like the plague, but you’re saying that you thought, “Okay, those pink passages—or this particular pink passage—was the recipe or the formula for what womanhood should look like.”

Abigail: Yes, kind of like a cookbook. So I took it and really thought, Okay, I’ve got what I need! And then as God moved me into all of His Word, I thought, Well there are riches here! The gospel is here; Christ is here! Why do I need those pink passages? 

And the pendulum swung, so I really went from valuing what some call these pink passages—these passages that are definitely written directly to women and kind of making them the totality of my life—to this other extreme of looking at the Bible and saying, “You know what? Most of what Paul says and most of what Jesus says and most of what is written in the New Testament is for everybody, the same, and so I don’t really care too much about these other passages that are just mainly written towards women. I can just camp out in this other area, because it’s more universal and it’s more important. I’m going to not pay attention to those passages.”

Eventually, the Lord just brought me to a place where He said, “Are you willing, Abigail, to receive every word that comes from My mouth? Are you really willing to integrate both these parts that are written right to you—to women—and these other parts that are all about discipleship and the gospel, all these beauties of Scripture? Can you see them as all parts of a great whole?”

Mary: How old were you when that happened?

Abigail: The pendulum swinging? That was really in my twenties. Ironically, as I’m married and having children, I’m thinking, My life really was about home; it really was about caring for children. And yet at that same time, the tension in my heart over, I think I’m made for more than that.

And God just doing, again, this renewing work in my heart to say, “Oh, no, Abigail! All of it is for you. And do not throw out one little bit!” Just sort of getting the order right, like, “I need a new heart so that I can understand Proverbs 31 properly. I need a new heart so that those pink passages aren’t ‘beneath me.’ I need a humble heart!”

But it was quite a pendulum swing from one side to the other: “They’re everything! They’re nothing!” And God saying, “Oh no, they’re all Mine, and they’re all for you.”

Dannah: And what did that teach you specifically about womanhood?

Abigail: Well, I think it showed me that womanhood is robust, that obeying Jesus and obeying all the words of the New Testament that are written to every disciple and all the churches is part of me being a woman as well. Like, that’s going to work out of me in a way that’s womanly, because I happen to be a woman!

Mary: So there’s no division.

Abigail: There’s no division. It’s all integrated.

Mary: You know, Abigail, there are just so many people in our culture saying, “I’m tired of hearing about these pink passages; I just want to deal with the other.” So that’s quite radical to take the pink passages and say, “No, we need to value those as much as we value the other passages, and to bring them together and to say, ‘Yes, this is true; this is equally true.’” 

How do we wrestle with this? Scripture informs my life as a woman, and that looks very different than someone who takes part of it and says, “You know what? I don’t really like this, this is culturally bad,” or “This doesn’t apply to me today.” 

Dannah: What were some of the specific things that God used to bring you back to a place of the totality of Scripture? Can you tell us some of the key moments?

Abigail: Well, they aren’t particularly profound. I would say the key moments were real simple things, like sitting in the pew at church Sunday after Sunday and just hearing my pastor open up the Scriptures and not let “one word fall to the ground.” (see 1 Sam. 3:19) I mean, boy, that did a work in my heart in my twenties and in my young thirties.

That was just as formative as anything ever could be. I think being married to a man who valued God’s Word so highly also was so profound. The other thing I would mention, that I would be so remiss if I didn’t, is I was in a small group at my church for years. 

We didn’t know the families in the small group when it formed, but as we got to know them over the years, a couple of them were just a step ahead of us. Watching these women embody everything that I so longed to be . . . They did not take lightly any part of the Bible, and they never would have looked down their noses at any passage! That was just such a powerful example to me! With all my heart I thought, That! I want to be that! And God was so gracious to put those right in front of me, embodied women, right there that I could follow and look up to.

Mary: I remember having some women like that in my life—just women who were corrective when I was probably coming out of my high school/college days and where I had just a real, “I don’t like those pink passages! I think I’ll just set those aside and I’ll deal with the rest of the Bible.”

And yet, having women in your life that pull you back to saying, “No, all of the counsel of God is inspired and holy and good for instruction and correction.” (see 2 Tim. 3:16)

Dannah: I probably have at least one of my friends listening who is thinking, I don’t know. I think I’m a little allergic to this conversation. I’m starting to itch and feel like I want to turn the knob and just listen to a different podcast!

Mary: You know what? When I was first talking about this, I actually took a book on womanhood and threw it clear across the room. I was so allergic to it!

Dannah: That’s an honest admission; it’s okay to say that you’re there. But a question I often hear them ask is, “Are you saying that I have to be a stereotypical, extremely feminine . . .” We just called these the pink passages. “Do I have to wear pink?” 

Mary: “Do I have to be a pink girl, a girly girl . . .”

Dannah: . . . to be a biblical woman.

Abigail: Right! That was my idea, too, and why I chafed, I think. I had this idea in my mind that wasn’t really formed from the Scriptures. It was formed probably from things I saw in magazines. 

Mary: Probably what people said about the Scriptures. 

Abigail: Yes, and stereotypes that were put up in a way that was not attractive—to me, at least. And the more I thought about it and I thought about the women in my own life . . . I think of my grandmother, who was a farmer’s wife who worked hard outside with her hands. She was just a physically strong woman in the work that she did.

And then I think of my mom, who is not a typical woman. Nothing gives her more delight than to get out the chain saw and do some work in the yard. She was a farmer’s daughter.

Dannah: My kind of girl!

Abigail: And yet, wow! What a woman who ran her home just with vitality and hospitality. I don’t know why, having those examples, I set up this other weird thing in my mind of what I was supposed to be. Like, why I made it small when they had shown me something so big. But I think we fall into that. I don’t even know how exactly, but we do. 

So it really helped me to just say, “Okay, get outside some of that! What does the Scripture say?” I mean, the Proverbs 31 woman, if we’re going to go to that passage, what couldn’t she do!? That woman was a force of nature!

Dannah: Okay, let’s just point out that that woman was not real.

Abigail: Right. 

Mary: She was the, “This is the kind of girl you look for,” the mum telling the son.

Abigail: Yes, it is poetry.

Dannah: It actually is a passage written to men, saying, “This is the kind of woman you need to look for,” but you’re right, she does kind of lift up the package.

Abigail: She’s an ideal. I don’t need to go plant a vineyard. So not taking it to the extreme of, “Boy, I need to check all these boxes real quick and make sure I’m just like her.” Not like that, but more just seeing it through the eyes of freedom. 

How can I understand Proverbs 31 with freedom, to be who God has made me to be and to take the principles she’s giving them and apply them to myself? 

Dannah: Well, let’s just land there, in Proverbs 31, for a few moments. She really does show us that there’s not a stereotype to a biblical woman. What were some of the hallmarks of who she was and what she was doing?

Abigail: Well, she stretched out her hand to the poor. She ran what seems like a pretty thriving business in her home or on her property. 

Dannah: She seemed to be entrepreneurial.

Abigail: Yes, very entrepreneurial—with the vineyard she planted. She prepared linen for her family, so she knew her family was well clothed.

Dannah: She was a little fashionable.

Abigail: Yes, apparently very fashionable. Which, you know, I could use some tips there! So many things that she did . . . flax and wool. She’s preparing food, but also this industrious, business savvy mind. She’s directing the people in her household.

Mary: I think this is why we kind of break out in a sweat when we read this passage. We look at this and it seems like it’s saying this woman could do all things at all times, and yet that’s not what it says.

Dannah: Well, yes. It reminds me of the pressure that today, especially I feel like younger, women are under, to have a Pinterest-perfect life, and to add an Etsy store on the side, and be ready to just have a burgeoning business on the internet. It’s an unrealistic expectation to be all of those things at the same time.

Abigail: Right, and so if we come to Proverbs 31 with that ideal that I did at the beginning of this interview, where we’re saying, “Oh, well I need to do this, because this is the sum total of what it means for me to be a Christian,” what we do is, we take God’s good Word and we turn it into a burden that it was not meant to be.

But Proverbs 31, if we come at it with new eyes, a new heart, and we say, “Oh, what am I supposed to be gleaning from this as a Christian person?” It isn’t, “Well, I’m going to earn my salvation through doing everything that the Proverbs 31 woman did.” Because you know what? I’m secure in Christ already. 

He has made me His; I’m His woman. I don’t need to do everything she did, but I can look at her with inspiration as an ideal of something. That gives me a lot of freedom to say, “Wow, I have something similar that I’m doing that is meeting that model,” but I’m not earning anything by it. It’s not my way of achieving my great Christian womanhood.

It’s just this example that God has given us in His graciousness towards us to give us some ideas of the directions we can run, but you’ve got to come with new eyes and a new heart and the free gift of salvation that nobody can take away from you, that you aren’t trying to earn. That’s where we, I think, get hung up with her.

Mary: Abigail, you have a background with words, and so you took your wrestling with this “pink vs. the rest of Scripture,” integrating the two. You’ve processed it through a lifetime. And now you’ve come up with a book: (A)Typical Woman: Free, Whole and Called in Christ. 

You are unpacking what that means, what that looks like, the implications of that and what it means to our listeners, what it means in their lives—truth that we all need to wrestle with.

And you know what I liked about your book, Abigail? When I opened it up, it actually wasn’t like, “Here’s Proverbs 31; let me tell you about Proverbs 31.” It really took a different tack than that. You started at the place of saying that we cannot even begin to understand who we are as women until we come to Christ—that it is the gospel that informs us in terms of our identity and our personhood and our womanhood. 

That we don’t even have a hope of getting the Proverbs 31 thing correct—or understanding what we ought to be as women—until we understand that God created women, and we die to self, and we are reborn as a new creature. The Lord begins to teach us what that means.

Abigail: Yes, so really the whole paradigm that I’m working from is to say, “What would it mean if we read Genesis 1 and 2 through the lens of Colossians 1:15–20 or the beginning of Hebrews?” So, I’ll flesh that out a little bit.

We’re told in the New Testament that all things were made through Christ. All things were made for Christ. He’s before everything. What would it mean if I understood being made as a woman as through Christ and for Christ? For me, that was paradigm shifting when I came to the Genesis account and it said that God made them male and female.

I thought, “For Christ, He did that!” God made a woman fit to be a helper. “For Christ He did that; through Christ He did that!” It blew my mind. I thought, How have I not seen this before? And that was the whole paradigm shift that reoriented my idea of even what I am! And there is so much freedom in Christ! Real freedom!

Freedom from sin, freedom to be exactly what He made me to be. Freedom to embrace my body in all its femaleness, just things I never dreamed of.

Mary: You know, so many people aren’t doing that these days, embracing their bodies in all their femaleness or maleness. I mean, we just see a rejection of that in our culture.

Dannah: And at the same time, a worshipping of gender as identity. And what you’re saying is that the Scriptures really confront that thinking because, first and foremost, our identity should be in Christ. And through that, we’re going to understand what it means to be a woman. 

Abigail: Yes.

Mary: I love this quote from your book, where you were talking about that our identity is forged through the gospel and through us coming to new life in Christ, but that that does not mean that our physical bodies are inconsequential. The physical bodies that God gave us matter, and they matter a lot!

It says, “Women are more than their sexuality. We are more than softness and curves, more than even our minds, but we are not less than these things. Bodies matter.”

Abigail: Yes, I think this is probably the point in our culture right now where so much of the battle is happening: “Are our bodies good? Is a female body good? Is a male body good? Who gets to say what body I have?” 

The simple fact of the matter is, I don’t get to choose my body; I don’t get to choose my sex. When God made the male and female bodies, in Adam and Eve, He said, “Very good!” He wasn’t confused about whether or not what He did was good. He said, “Very good!”

I think there are a lot of people hurting out there who can’t look at their body that God has given them, and their sex, and say, “Very good!”

Mary: Well, Dannah, we’ve seen this in our lives, right, when we minister to women. We’ve seen women who are very broken because their bodies have been misused and sinned against. You know, women who have been used as sex symbols, in pornography. You deal with sexual pain and suffering . . .

Dannah: . . . and brokenness. It’s the way women are used as marketing tools and their bodies are objectified. I really think even the battle for beauty is a battle over whether or not how I was created—how God chose to create me—is good.

And of course, the big battle in our culture right now is this idea that gender is fluid. Is gender fluid? What do you think God’s Word says about that conversation? 

Abigail: I think God tells us what He has made, and He gives us two categories for the human race, and that is male and female. So I don’t think that there’s true fluidity between either being male or female. 

But I do think because of the brokenness of our minds and the brokenness of sin that’s got an “in” to everybody’s body, there is going to be brokenness in our perceptions of ourselves and even brokenness in our bodies themselves. So our bodies are not going to work properly all the time.

But that’s a very different thing than gender fluidity. I think sometimes we’re probably confusing those things. I think it’s possible that what some people might be thinking: “Oh, I’m gender . . .” or “I am on the spectrum . . .”

Dannah: Let’s stop. I want to make sure that we all understand what it means to be “gender fluid,” which is basicially that my biological sex doesn’t determine whether I’m male or female; rather, what I think in my head determines. I get to choose, based on those feelings and thoughts, whether I’m male or female. And the fluidity part of it means I can shift at any point.

Mary: You know what? I have five brothers, and I’m the only girl in the family. And when I was growing up, when I was a little girl, I was a tomboy. I wanted to be just like my brothers: cross the trestle like them, climb the tree like them, be able to wrestle just like my brothers did. 

I remember when I was a girl, that my mother was constantly reminding me, “Mary, you’re a girl. Mary, you’re a girl. Mary, don’t do that, you’re a girl.” Well, I kind of kicked against the pricks a little bit, because I had this idea of what a girl was, and it wasn’t really impressing me. I just thought the boys had more fun.

And yet, that was the kindest truth that they spoke into my life: “Mary, you are a girl and you need to begin to understand what that means.” Because it does mean something. It is not inconsequential. 

Abigail: Yes, and the Scriptures do show us kind of this picture of discipleship, that there is a lot of discipleship that is all across the board, the same for everybody. And yet, there are also elements of discipleship that are specific to our gender.

And so, as parents, I think we just have to be so mindful of that right now. That in this culture, as we’re raising our sons and raising our daughters, we are saying things like what your mother did. We are affirming the goodness of how our children have been made, so that they are hearing it from our mouths.

“You were made a boy. It is so good that you’re a boy!” or “You were made a girl, and it is so good!” “Did you know God says that’s so good that He made you a boy (or a girl)?” And just helping them get that truth implanted deeply of what God has made them, and that it’s good!

Dannah: Why is that important?

Abigail: I think because everything in the culture is saying, “It’s just what you feel.” And because that’s being exalted now as maybe a good thing . . . I think all of us have this desire to be unique, to be different. And so for kids, it can be very tempting to think, I can get a lot of attention . . .

Dannah: It’s very trendy right now.

Abigail: Yes, it’s very trendy. “If I kind of explore this area,”--and they may not even go into it knowing what direction they are thinking, but they’re being encouraged to explore it. They need our guidance to help them instead explore what God has said about them and think about those things.

Mary: You start out the whole discussion by saying that we are women through and through—that we are women, not just in our bodies but in our hearts and our minds and every fiber of our beings. And we are “woman” because God made us “woman,” and that is a precious and wonderful and beautiful thing that honors Him.

I love that, because I don’t think we can even begin this discussion apart from understanding that we are created by an almighty, loving, heavenly Father who chose to make us male and female. And that seems like such a basic foundational truth, and yet it’s a truth that we need to go back to in this generation—“I am a woman through and through, and that’s a wonderful and beautiful thing!”

Dannah: I want to come back tomorrow and really define what that means, to be a woman through and through according to God’s Word. But first, Abigail, today we started talking about how some women are very obsessed with those pink Bible verses, and they really have just a kind of a single-mindedness about really using those Scriptures and not maybe the total of Scriptures.

And then, you said you went through a period where you went the other way and you were like, “Those passages are not that important. I just want to be all about the gospel and all about these more important passages.” What would you say to a woman who identifies that, “Yeah, I’m in one of those ruts right now.”

What would the first step be in helping her to get back on track and having a totality of the view of what it means to be a woman, based on Scripture?

Abigail: Yes, I think the first thing where we all have to start, where I have to start even today in this interview, is just to say, “Lord, I submit to You, so whatever You want to say, I’m all ears.” So that heart, that posture says, “I’m not going to pick and choose, God, in any direction. I won’t do that to Your Word, because it’s from Your very mouth!”

And so, to get that heart of humility and submission before the Lord and say, “Give me eyes to see something as good—from Your mouth—that I previously saw as not good.” And I think that’s where we all have to start, is with that prayerful, humble posture. . .

Then, trust Him! Walk it out. Read, read, read . . . read some more! Stay in the Word and see what He does!

Dannah: Would you just pray that over every woman listening right now, that as we explore this topic for the next few days, that we would have a humble submissive heart to let Him determine what our mind thinks about what it means to be a woman.

Abigail: Oh Lord, would You help us? We are so desperately in need of Your help to even want to hear what You have to say to us. Lord, we confess that sometimes we don’t want to hear what You have to say to us. And we take our preferences about Your words, and so we plug our ears to certain things that You say, and we may plug them in one direction or in another direction.

And so for the women out there that are in different places, Lord I pray that You would give them ears to hear every word that comes from Your mouth as precious and true! Lord, would You humble their hearts as you humbled my heart, so that we can receive from Your hand every good thing. In Jesus’ name, amen.

Dannah: Amen! Well, friend, I wonder if you’re leaving today’s conversation with a different perspective of Proverbs 31, or perhaps even a deeper love for Scripture. Abigail Dodds has been helping us think about what shapes our identity.

Nancy: And as Abigail explained, our view of Christ and God’s Word is foundational to understanding how God made us and who He made us to be. She talks more about this in her book (A)Typical Woman. 

You can find that book available for purchase at the Revive Our Hearts resource center. Just visit us at ReviveOurHearts.com, or contact us at 1–800–569–5959 to order your copy. And while you’re at our website, I want to encourage you to take some time to explore the many different resources that are available to you there.

The Revive Our Hearts podcast family is one of those resources. Because of listeners like you who support this ministry faithfully, we’ve been able not only to continue that podcast outreach, but recently to expand it.

That’s happening in a number of different languages. We currently have several Spanish podcasts, we have one in Portugese, one in Farsi, and others that are being developed continually. In English we currently have seven different podcasts. Some of those are familiar to you: Revive Our Hearts, you’re listening to today, Seeking Him. 

Then, there are some that are newer: The Deep Well with Erin Davis, Expect Something Beautiful with Laura Booz, and of course, Revive Our Hearts Weekend. This podcast family is a collection of trustworthy, biblical content for women in every season of life. 

We love hearing how the Lord is using various outreaches of Revive Our Hearts, like the podcast family, to impact women in their daily lives. One woman wrote to us recently and here’s what she had to say. 

Woman listener: I randomly found the Women of the Bible podcast while searching for help during a dark time in my life. I listened to the four podcasts on “Ruth”; now I’m starting “Esther.” I know God helped me find you and your group of ladies.

Nancy: I’m so glad He did! She goes on to say. . .

Woman: Your podcasts have given me so much hope and help during a very lost time in my life. Your podcasts have brought me back from darkness, along with complete guidance from God. His hand is in all of this! 

Thank you for your ministries, and to let you know, women are listening! Thank you for being there for all of us women out there who have strayed from God and are coming back from hopelessness.

Nancy: Wow, what a picture that is of women around the world who have strayed away from the Lord and are wanting and needing to come back from hopelessness. That’s why we’re out there day after day with this message of freedom and fullness and fruitfulness in Christ!

If you’ve given to Revive Our Hearts or prayed for this ministry, you helped us reach this woman by bringing her the truth of Jesus, helping her find hope for her hopelessness . . . and you’re doing the same for countless other women around the world. Thank you so much for giving and for being a vital part of the work that God is doing through this ministry.

Now, as we’ve been sharing with you over the last few days, we’re asking the Lord to provide a significant amount of funding during the month of May. It’s the last month of our budget year. So, other than the month of December, it’s the time of year when we need the greatest amount of support from friends like you.

Your gift at this time will help us as we prepare for the next twelve months of ministry. It gives me such joy and anticipation as I think ahead to the opportunities that God is placing before Revive Our Hearts for the year ahead, and the many more women who are going to be rescued from hopelessness as they listen to and read the many different resources that we’re developing day after day.

So, would you consider giving a special gift this month to invest in the lives of women as they experience the hope and freedom that can only be found in Jesus Christ? You can make your donation by calling us at 1–800–569–5959, or go to our website ReviveOurHearts.com

We’re so grateful for your gift, whether you think it’s small or large. Every little bit counts as we ask the Lord to meet our goal during this month of May. Thank you so much for your partnership with us!

Dannah: Yes, thank you so much! Tomorrow we hope you’ll be back as Mary Kassian and I will continue this conversation with Abigail Dodds, and we’re going to find out what kind of woman God wants you to be! Please be back for Revive Our Hearts. 

Revive Our Hearts with Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth challenges you to find your identity by seeking Christ. It’s an outreach of Life Action Ministries.

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Darkness. Fear. Uncertainty. Women around the world wake up hopeless every day. You can play a part in bringing them freedom, fullness, and fruitfulness instead. Your gift ensures that we can continue to spread gospel hope! Donate now.

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About the Teachers

Mary Kassian

Mary Kassian

Mary Kassian is an award-winning author, an internationally-renowned speaker, and a frequent guest on Revive Our Hearts. She has written more than a dozen books and Bible studies, including Conversation Peace, Girls Gone Wise in a World Gone Wild, and The Right Kind of Strong.

Mary and her husband, Brent, have three sons and six grandchildren and live in Alberta, Canada. The Kassians enjoy biking, hiking, snorkeling, music, board games, mountains, campfires, and their family’s black lab, "The Queen of Sheba."

Dannah Gresh

Dannah Gresh

When Dannah Gresh was eight years old, she began praying that God would use her as a Bible teacher for “the nations.” When she sees the flags of many countries waving at a Revive Our Hearts event, it feels like an answer to her prayer.

Dannah is the founder of True Girl which provides tools for moms and grandmothers to disciple their 7–12 year-old girls. On Monday nights, you’ll find Dannah hosting them in her online Bible study. She has authored over twenty-eight books, including Ruth: Becoming a Girl of Loyalty, Lies Girls Believe, and a Bible study for adult women based on the book of Habakkuk. She and her husband, Bob, live on a hobby farm in central Pennsylvania.

About the Guests

Abigail Dodds

Abigail Dodds

Abigail Dodds is a wife and mother of five. She is a regular contributor at Desiring God and the author of (A)Typical Woman: Free, Whole, and Called in Christ (2019).