Revive Our Hearts Podcast

The Courage to Love Well

Leslie Basham: Robert Wolgemuth has a question for men.

Robert Wolgemuth: How many of you are afraid of your wife? How many of you want to do everything you can to keep her from reacting—or could we say “overreacting”—in certain situations? And how often do you not tell her the full truth because you’re afraid of that response?

Leslie: This is Revive Our Hearts with Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth, author of Lies Women Believe, for September 11, 2018.

Revive Our Hearts is a program for women, but today we’ll hear from some men for a few reasons. First, we know some men listen to the program. And secondly, the more we learn about the way our husbands and brothers think, it will help us pray for them, help them, and support them.

Dannah Gresh and Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth are here to begin the conversation. They’re the co-authors of Lies Young Women Believe and the Truth That Sets Them Free.

Dannah Gresh: Nancy, you have been married almost three years!

Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth: Long time!

Dannah: Have you figured your husband out?

Nancy: Totally!

Dannah: I’m so glad!

Nancy: Does any woman ever?

Dannah: No, that’s what I’m wondering, because I’m almost to thirty years of marriage, and I’m still trying to understand my man!

Nancy: But that’s a good thing. It’s the mystery of marriage.

Dannah: It is a good thing. Do you know what’s been a really helpful thing? Lies Men Believe. . .

Nancy: . . . helping you better understand your man.

Dannah: In fact, that’s one reason we’re covering it today on Revive Our Hearts. I’ve read Lies Men Believe—and I’m not a man!—but I gained so much understanding about my husband, Bob.

Nancy: I had the same experience as I sat next to Robert. I was writing the revision of Lies Women Believe during the summer while he was writing Lies Men Believe. We were sitting out on our deck writing “Lies” together!

I had the joy as we would bounce ideas back and forth . . . It was such a sweet thing for me as a fairly new wife to think, Oh! Well, that makes sense. Yeah! and to enter in more to some of the struggles that men have. We have our own, but men have their own unique struggles.

There are some lies that are very gender-neutral, but there are some that are gender-specific. I’m so thankful that in Lies Men Believe, Robert has unpacked truthfor men, but it’s also a help for women to better understand men!

Dannah: Exactly! I have to say, in thirty years of marriage, one of the most important moments of understanding my husband came as I was reading Lies Men Believe just a few days ago. I’m going to tell you what that moment was in just a minute, but first I want our guests and our listeners (you!) to hear that we’re not in the studio alone today.

Robert Wolgemuth: You don’t think?

Nancy: Two women talking about Lies Men Believe?

Dannah: No . . . we thought we might bring in the experts. So we have my husband, Bob . . . hi, Babe.

Bob Gresh: Hello.

Dannah: And we have the author of Lies Men Believe.

Robert: Oh, yeah, the drumroll, please . . .

Dannah: Robert!

Nancy: You’ve actually been out of town for a couple of days.

Robert: I have!

Nancy: So I was glad to hug you in the studio this afternoon!

Robert: I just broke through the soundproof barrier and gave you a kiss right on the face!

Nancy: Yes you did! What a great idea it would be today not just for women to listen to the program. If you’re listening to the podcast, you can push “pause” and listen to it, perhaps, with your husband this evening, if you think that’s something he would enjoy. I think this would be a great conversation for husbands and wives to listen to together.

Now, it’s not just for married men; it’s not just for married women, because, as women, we function around men all the time and vice versa. But especially for married couples, what a great thing it would be for you to come and join us around this table for this conversation. I think you’ll find it’s really encouraging and hope-giving, but also enlightening.

Robert: And that invitation for your husband (if you’re married) to come and listen to the broadcast needs to be very carefully worded.

Nancy: Help us, Honey!

Dannah: Yes, coach us up. You mean me telling Bob, “Hey, Bob, you need to come with me!” wasn’t the good way?

Robert: So, this is not a penalty. He didn’t lose a bet, and now he’s gotta come pay for it. It’s like the book: don’t give it “at” him. Right? What you do is you say, “Honey (or whatever you call your husband), I’m listening to Revive Our Hearts, and Nancy and Dannah have their husbands in the studio. It would mean so much to me if you could come and just listen to this with me.”

So she’s cashing some coupons, right? She’s sharing some equity in terms of her relationship. “It’s important to me,” she’s saying to her husband, “for you to join me in this conversation.”

Which, hopefully, is the same reason why she’s going to give him this book: “It’s going to be helpful for me for you to read this book.” And hopefully, it’s been written in a way that captures his attention so that pretty quickly he doesn’t feel like, “This is an assignment from my wife,” but he’s actually enjoying this conversation with me.

Bob: It’s also a great conversation starter around the kitchen table. A lot of times, for me and Dannah, she’ll want to lay some deep spiritual truth on. I’ll be ready to eat my steak and potatoes, and she’ll say, “What has God told you today?” I’ll be like, “That I’m hungry and I want to eat this steak in front of me!” (laughter)

There are so many things in this book that could be easy conversation starters for women, to say, “I read this . . . and is this something you believe?” or “This was interesting for me to find this out. Is this true in your life?” It’s not a threatening conversation starter.

Robert: That’s really good, Bob. I say in the first part of the book, it isn’t that every man thinks this way and every woman thinks this way, but it is as you’re saying, a good conversation starter. It invites her to say to him, “Is this the way it is?” Just like it is, sometimes, to say to her, “Is this the way it really is?”

So, if this starts that conversation around the table, so much the better!

Bob: And the other thing is that, I think what’s neat about this is the ability to have the same conversation about the same material. Often, Dannah will come back from a conference and be all juiced up about something that she learned, and when she comes in the door, she’s ready to unload this on me . . . and it’s the fourth quarter of a football game! (Did I tell you the Eagles won the Superbowl!?)

Dannah: Hey! I have never done that.

Nancy: Bob, the Lord used me in your wife’s life to get her interested in watching football with you.

Dannah: And I loved watching the Superbowl.

Nancy: Have you ever thanked me for that? (laughter)

Bob: I haven’t. I thank you now—for all the things that you’ve done for me, and this is one of the most important!

Nancy: She wasn’t a sports fan, and then she watched me become a Cubbie [Chicago Cubs baseball] when I got married.

Bob: She does the sports thing now.

Dannah: I do.

Bob: But it’s nice to have the same conversation at the same time.

Dannah: It’s nice to have parallel resources.

Robert: Yes! And, in fact, the sports thing is not a rabbit trail. Nancy knows that sports is important to me. It was never important to her (except Notre Dame football—which I can’t believe!), but when she discovered that this is the way I think, this is important for me, she went ahead and joined me.

In the same way that a woman could say to her husband, “I would love for you to read this book”—exactly as Bob is saying—“so we can be on the same page.” It’s like watching the same game side by side, and you’re commenting on that great catch or the home-run or whatever.

That’s really how this book, I think, could help start the conversation between a husband and a wife.

Dannah: Because we do think and communicate differently, which you so eloquently laid out yesterday on the program when we went back to the Garden of Eden. We looked at Adam and Eve and how they approached the whole temptation of that tree differently and how they thought differently. (And, listeners, if you want to hear that broadcast, you can listen to it on ReviveOurHearts.com.) But Robert, there’s one little thing we didn’t get to as we were in the Garden of Eden yesterday.

Nancy: Is this what you said was the “aha!” moment for you as you were reading?

Dannah: This was such an “aha!” moment for me! I felt like I both understood my husband in a new way, and I also understood how I may be hurting him and could have an opportunity to help him.

Robert: Wow!

Dannah: Let me ask you a question, Robert. Is it possible that Adam had a motivation for his wife that contributed to his passivity and made him go along with sinning with his wife?

Robert: So if we could take a poll of the men who are listening right now and say, “Alright, all cards on the deck! How many of you are afraid of your wife? How many of you want to do everything you can to keep her from reacting—or could we say ‘overreacting’—in certain situations? And how often do you not tell her the full truth because you’re afraid of that response?”

Nancy: Wow!

Robert: There would be hands in the air—everywhere.

Nancy: You think a lot of them?

Robert: A lot of them!

Dannah: So you’re saying, maybe one thing that kept Adam quiet was fear of his wife?

Robert: Absolutely! He decided in that moment . . .

Nancy: But he wanted to please her, right?

Robert: Well, this is one of those, “We’ll figure it out later.” He wanted to please her, and was willing to disobey God in order to affirm what his wife had just done in taking the bit of the fruit. Now, some of that is conjecture. That’s not actually in the Word.

But it doesn’t take a lot of stretching, I think, to least put that together, given what he did—or what he didn’t do—or what she did and his response to what she did. So we’ll talk about that kind of approach later.

Instead of saying to Eve (here’s a hard conversation!), “Honey, that was disobedience, that was wrong.” And what he’s opening himself up for at that moment is: [Eve:] “Well, here you are . . . Mr. Perfect!” Right? So a lot of guys hold back.

And, of course, their approach could probably be better than it is sometimes. But, again, this is anecdotal, but I do believe that men, out of fear of their wife’s response, withhold their true feelings, withhold candor, withhold honesty.

Dannah: Withhold leadership?

Robert: Withhold leadership . . . sure!

Nancy: Even before she sinned, Scripture indicates he was there with her.

Robert: Right.

Nancy: She’s having this conversation with the serpent—who clearly is leaving Adam out of the conversation. But the courage it would have taken for him to step up and say, “Don’t do that!”

Robert: “This is a bad idea!”

Nancy: To think that there could have been fear of her displeasure is a powerful thing for us as women, to think, Do we created an environment that makes it more difficult for our men to do the right thing?

Robert: Yes.

Bob: I see two things that are happening there. One is that, many times, wives are the more spiritual of the two in a relationship. They might read the Bible more; they generally listen to Christian radio more; they generally buy more Christian books.

Men think they lack spiritual authority because they’re not reading the amount of books, listening to the amount of Christian radio, going to the amount of conferences, and so they are not as confident about their spiritual authority in the home.

Robert: Yeah. Boy, I understand that! Three years ago I married Nancy Leigh DeMoss, and she’s known around the world as an expert on Scripture!

Bob: Absolutely!

Robert: Okay, so I’ve taught Sunday school for a bunch of years and written a few of books . . .The reason why that wasn’t problematic was my wife’s attitude about what she knew. You could be married to a person who lords it over you because she does know more. She’s in more Bible studies, she spends more time in the Word (that’s no excuse for a guy, right?).

But a woman’s attitude about that in the presence of her husband is critical. In fact, the reason why she has all that information is to be more humble, to be more gentle, to be more kind (fruits of the Spirit), not to be an instructor, stand up, turn the microphone on, pull the podium out and let him have it!

Nancy: Honey, I want to say, though (and thank you; you’re so kind) that one of things that made it so much easier for me as a wife to be responsive to you is, I saw your hunger to know God. The fact that you’re up at the crack of dawn . . . I’m not sanctifying one time above another, but you’re up before I am—every morning.

You’re starting your day in the Word, you’re texting me things that you’re getting out of God’s Word that morning. You do this just in a quiet sort of way (you don’t brag about this; you don’t make a big deal about of it). I have come down a few times earlier than normal, and stumbled onto you on your knees, praying. I know that’s how you’re starting your day.

And those things are huge! It’s not that either of us knows everything there is to know—I mean, both of us wish we knew so much more about the Bible! But to have a husband that you know wants to know God and wants to know His Word, that is a huge thing!

I’ll tell you one other thing that makes me want to affirm and encourage your leadership is the fact that you will (and for us it’s the beginning and end of each day, but it could be anytime) just take my hand, and you will start to pray. It’s not big, long theological, deep prayers.

I mean, at night you’re falling asleep, and it’s an exercise in self-discipline to get that prayer out sometimes because you’re just so tired! But you will stop and you’ll pray for our family, you pray for me. You pray over me in the morning (I’m barely awake) but you’re heading out to your quiet time, but you take my hand and you just pray for the filling of His Holy Spirit and for God’s blessing on me and you thank the Lord “for your precious wife” and those little things. It’s not rocket science.

You could be intimidated (as I think some maybe men might be), but I just am so thankful that you’re willing to step up, and that makes me want to honor and respect and lift you up even more.

Robert: Wow! Well, with all due respect to my precious wife, who’s known around the world as a Bible teacher, I fear God more than I fear you.

Nancy: Wow.

Dannah: Wow.

Robert: And what I just talked about, a man fearing his wife’s overreaction to things or how she’ll take this message, but there’s this ultimate respect. I don’t dare! This isn’t just like digging your fingernails into your gums so it feels good when you stop.

I’m walking past that study every morning and I’m thinking, The Lord is there waiting for me. I respect Him too much to just keep walking. And that’s a decision. If I’m across a cup of coffee with your husband, I’m saying, “Make a decision. Every life change begins with a single decision—a single decision—today, and then tomorrow. and then the next day.”

“So, you decide!” I’m looking into your husband’s eyes, pleading with him, saying, “Let’s make a decision.” This isn’t rocket science, like you said. This is a decision that you can make, and it will impact everything!

So, again, I love you, and I admire you, and I respect you, but I fear God more than I fear you.

Nancy: And I love that!

Robert: So, Nancy, you talk about this “dark o-thirty thing.” People give me a hard time, as you know, like, I go to bed earlier than most mortals. The truth is that that early morning thing is a confession. Not only am I not proud of it, it’s a confession.

Like, what kind of confession is it? It’s a confession that I know that the wheels will come off of my life if I don’t do that. Several years ago I went to the Arnold Palmer Invitational golf tournament. (It used to be called the Bay Hill). It wasn’t far from my home in Orlando, Florida.

Tiger Woods had his worst round at Bay Hill (which is the country club that’s used). It was his worst round—on a Saturday. I was there with my nephew, so we went for a drive afterward. We’re driving through certain neighborhoods, and I happened to be able to get into Tiger Woods’ neighborhood, and we drove around.

In the back of his neighborhood is a driving range. There was a guy standing on the tee box in this driving range, and there was a car behind him with his headlights up against him. He was pounding balls, and it was Tiger Woods. We drove around; it was Tiger Woods!

He’s standing there, pounding golf balls, one after another. And his friend. Mark O’Meara, a neighbor of his and a good friend, was standing in front of him watching his swing. I’m thinking, Tiger Woods failed today, and what did he do? He went out, and he hit hundreds of golf balls!

“Dark o-thirty” for me is Tiger Woods, after having a bad round, standing on the tee box at the practice range pounding golf balls, trying to get it right! So dark o-thirty, for me, is a confession. I don’t boast about that. I’m a broken, sinful man, and I know it, and if I don’t have that, I know I’m in serious trouble.

Dannah: Maybe you’re listening and you’re saying, “Wow, my marriage doesn’t sound anything like Nancy and Robert’s.” I would say to you that Bob and I would probably fall into that category. We’re growing, we’re learning. I think that’s why Lies Men Believe was so powerful in my life as a woman.

I could see two things: first of all, Bob really does treasure me and the relationship with me, but sometimes the way I’m interacting with him makes him fearful to lead. And I’m sorry! I’m sorry, Bob, because I know that’s true.

And maybe you’re listening, and that sounds like your marriage. You know what? Pause right now. Pause the program right now and just apologize to your husband . . . and let him lead a little bit.

Nancy: Which, let me just say, that happens in our marriage. We do have to stop, push pause, and say, “Look, we’re not on the radio here. We’re not writing a book. This is life.” Robert came to my study the other night and we had had a—I forget what it was even about right now—a misunderstanding about something.

And within minutes, he was up kneeling at my chair in my study saying, “I didn’t communicate right. I was not kind; it was not right. Please forgive me.” What makes our marriage really sweet is not that we are both really sweet, because so much of the time, I’m not! And Robert would say that about himself.

But what makes our marriage sweet is that we keep getting to the Cross. We keep acknowledging when we blow it, and when we’ve been deceived, and when we’ve made choices that weren’t in the other’s best interest. Then we come back and we—just what you’re just doing right now with Bob, Dannah—we just say, “God’s showing me this . . .”

And that’s the gospel. It’s that He redeems messes . . . and broken people! Not that He helps people who have got it all together, because we don’t!

Robert: It’s like the spontaneity in the gospels of the woman who poured expensive ointment on Jesus’ feet. If she had thought about it, she wouldn’t have done it. But she had this impulse to serve Jesus in that way, and she did it. She got it done.

Again, if I’m looking across the table in a cafe with your husband, I’m saying, “Just do it! You get that sense in your spirit: I need to have a conversation with my wife. Just do it, don’t wait. There’s no reason to wait.”

Dannah: So, Nancy, let’s say that there’s a couple listening right now. They both have great hearts, but what we’ve been saying resonates so much. The man feels controlled by the woman and the desire to please her; he’s afraid of her. What’s your advice to the woman so that she can make her husband feel like he’s in a safer environment?

Nancy: Well, I think what we’re talking about here is, we all have things in our own lives and in our marriages where we get stuck. It’s not a healthy interaction. I mean, even really good marriages—the best marriages I know—have these seasons where they’re just off. They’re missing cues, they’re misconnecting, miscommunicating, and have unfulfilled desires and longings.

We talk to women all the time on this program, and most of our resources, all of our resources, virtually, are designed for women, to encourage them as to how to be a safe place. I’d encourage women to go read Lies Women Believe if they haven’t read that.

We have lots of broadcasts that deal with women in a marriage to a man who maybe isn’t walking with the Lord, or our expectations we have to deal with as women. These are things we talk about all the time.

But while we have our gentlemen here today, I just think it’s a great opportunity for you guys, Robert and Bob, to have a chance to speak hope and encouragement to men who feel, I can’t measure up. I feel controlled, or whatever it is. (I don’t want to be the one to tell you what men are thinking or what they’re experiencing.)

But as you’re thinking about some of these lies that men believe, how do you encourage yourselves? How do you encourage a man who’s listening about how to take some next steps to feel in a healthy and whole place?

Robert: Well, it starts with what we talked about earlier, and that’s encouraging a man day by day to spend time with the Lord one on one in His Word. There are lots of wonderful devotional books that you can get involved in that will help you navigate this daunting Book called the Bible.

And then, have a friend, somebody who knows your heart well enough to be able to affirm you and well enough to be able to say, “Hmm . . . that sounds really weird! Like, why would you think that?” Somebody who loves you enough to be able to talk like that.

Then of course, going to church is huge. That’s where people are who can love you “for free.” If you’ve got children, that’s where you bring them to give them “free adults” who aren’t their coach, their teacher, who aren’t going to say, “Sit up straight!” and “Take a lap!” They love them for free.

We’ve heard recently a story about a young man at church who was befriended by an adult who loved him and drew him to the Savior, as a result of this free adult—not a dad, not a coach, not a teacher—who loved him.

So, yes, I would say, on your own, one on one, day to day. Let your wife in on some of that. You know, Bob said earlier sometimes a man is intimidated because his wife is spending more time in the Word, she’s more articulate about the things in the Bible, so he might be anxious about bringing that subject up. When she asks him a question about that he’s thinking, “Is that like in the Old Testament or in the New Testament?” So he feels really out of it.

I think the grace that a wife issues to her husband where she’s affirming him where he is and encouraging him where he needs to be . . . all those things are important.

You said it. All marriages struggle with this. You’ve got two sinful people trying to make a go of it.

Nancy: And male and female . . . just those differences.

Robert: Absolutely. That’s enough, isn’t it? But then, you blanket that with grace, with righteousness that comes from the Cross. We stand before Him and before each other redeemed, sinless really, right? Our sins are forgiven and we have reconciliation with our Father. That makes a whole difference between you and me, if we have that kind of unity!

Okay, here’s an example. Last night the Cubs lost in the bottom of the ninth inning. So we talked about that (we weren’t together; I was on a trip). We know that feeling. We also know the feeling of watching a game, listening to a game, when they win!

So here we are, children of the Kingdom, and we know the faithfulness of our Savior. We stand side by side basking in the joy of a “W!” (Cubs fans know what that is!) The freedom that comes, embracing the victory of the Cross and what Christ has done for us.

Dannah: My heart’s breaking a little bit right now for the woman who’s listening and saying, “Yeah, but Nancy, you have a husband who loves the Lord. Dannah, your marriage may not be perfect, but you have a husband who loves the Lord” . . . and she doesn’t. Maybe she has a husband who professes to a believer, but he’s really resisting being at church.

Robert, it’s one of the lies you write about in the first chapter, in Lies About God. You say one of the lies that men believe is, “Church? I can take it or leave it!” What are some of the excuses you see about why men are skipping out on church? Speak to the woman who right now is saying, “Wow, I really just wish my husband would come to church with me.”

Robert: I’m speaking to the wife: Use “I” statements, don’t use “you” statements about why this is important to you. Let him know, but be careful. Be gentle, be persuasive, and don’t “die on the hill.” How many stories do you know, Honey, of women who were relentlessly faithful, praying for their husband.

Nancy: But patient, waiting on the Lord.

Robert: Humble, patient, living the fruits of the Spirit. Give him something he wants; don’t obligate him to something he ought to do. There’s a big difference between those two. And the Lord knows. The Lord’s not saying, “Well, this is kind of surprising Me, this relationship!”

He has us where He has us, and it’s His purposes in our lives. We don’t know why, necessarily. We don’t have to know “why,” we just trust Him. But lovingly say to your husband, “It would mean so much to me . . .” And pick a few reasons. I mean, be careful of stewardship Sunday, right? But there’s something special going on, and you want him to be a part.

Nancy: Grandkids are singing.

Robert: Grandkids are singing; don’t you see that a lot at church? Which that’s a good thing. I love when the church is full of husbands and wives when their kids or grandkids are singing. That’s a great excuse, and you want to say to the pastor, “Now, be alert, because there are going to be a lot of visitors.” Or Easter, or Christmas, and live the life. Give your husband something that he really would love to have for himself.

Bob: I’d also say to use a trusted friend. A lot of things happen in community, so to ask a friend, a mutual friend, “Hey, could you reach out to my husband? Could you invite him to an event? Could you go bowling? Could you do something non-churchy until he builds a friendship where he could be invited to church?” Because sometimes the wife isn’t in the best position to accomplish that goal.

Robert: Right.

Bob: It’s just like for Dannah and I, we had to find mentors for our children because there are times in their teen years when we’re not the ones that they necessarily listen to the most.

Robert: [Teen thinks:] “I know you’re talkin’, Dad, but my radio’s not turned to your station!” Oh, yeah.

Bob: Yes!

Dannah: You know, is it just non-Christian men who feel uncomfortable at church? My experience is that I am counseling Christian women with Christian husbands who are saying, “I am a Christian. I love God. I want to be the Christian leader of my house, but I’m not connecting at church. So I’m just going give up.”

Bob: This is why I may be the really oddball here, because I’m not really a writer. I think I might be wired a little bit differently than you guys, because I’m feeling completely out of place at points because I don’t think I measure up.

My heart is concerned about the men who are like me, saying, “Okay, I don’t get up . . .” (I think it’s before the crack of dawn actually, for you, Robert!)

Nancy: “Dark o-thirty.”

Bob: Right. I’m a man who thinks sometimes that church—the traditional service—is very feminine. We sing and then we sit and listen. There’s no interactivity, and so I spend an hour-and-a-half having to really work on being engaged. It’s not natural for me to just sit and learn as much as it is to interact, and be motivated, by a roundtable like this. Does that make me really unspiritual?

Robert: No, no, join the club.

Nancy: You know what, though, Bob? I’ve watched you over the years, you and Dannah, Out of your personal journey, your journey as a couple, I’ve watched you lean into community and need other men and wise pastors and your wife.

There’s something about need. There’s something even, for all of us, about failure or emptiness or loneliness or just need. God creates in our hearts that vacuum that presses us to realize, we need the Body of Christ.

I don’t think that “going to the church service” is the hill to die on for the wife whose husband isn’t there; it’s praying that God creates in both of you a greater love for Christ, a love for His people, a sense that we need God’s people. We’re not intended to survive alone.

So, as a woman, I think, if we cannot make the surface symptom the main issue but say, “What is God doing at a deeper level?” and “What does He want to do in me that would create greater hunger and thirst in my husband’s heart?”

Bob: I want to reiterate that it’s important to go to church, and I enjoy going to church. I enjoy the relationships at church. There are different things that I get out of church. I have realized, at fifty-one, that I almost don’t get anything accomplished by myself at work—almost nothing. So I have to be engaged with people and collaborating.

Dannah’s totally the opposite. She would consider herself not getting much done when she’s with people. And so part of this is based upon personality, that other people help me get deeper into the Word, to encourage my personal time in the Word.

Robert: That’s good.

Here’s a little secret: most churches take care of little kids on their own. So think of it as a date. Nancy will tell you that we love sitting next to each other in church. Now, this is a confession. I’m not a big fan of contemporary Christian music. I’m not a big fan. I have no CD’s, I have no mp3 downloads of any contemporary Christian music.

Bob: You would have been a fan in the 1800s! (laughter)But . . . I get an hour, and hour-and-twenty minutes, with my bride. We sit really close to each other, don’t we, Honey? We enjoy when our pastor opens the Word.

We sit there, whether it’s an electronic or physical copy of our Bibles, and we love that. And driving home from church: “Did you hear what he said about so-and-so? How does . . .” It begins a conversation. So, it’s a date.

Nancy: And connecting together with other people of the church, because not everybody has a mate to sit next to. When I was single, that was one of the loneliest parts of my week.

Robert: Yeah, you bet.

Nancy: I know it is for a lot of other people. So when we’re there we’re connecting (we call it our aisle ministry) with people who are college students and widows and older couples and non-couples. But we’re doing it together; we’re praying together with people who just express a need. So we’re receiving, but we’re also being poured out for others.

Robert: The more I get to do that with you, the more reason it gives me to go to church.

Dannah: Robert, let’s end this program by breathing some hope into the woman today who is believing that her husband will want to go to church with her, who is believing that her husband may become a believer, because he doesn’t even know the Lord yet. Could you pray for that woman who feels a little bit lonely, from this conversation that we’re having right now?

Robert: Oh, I’d love to. So, Father, I pray for a man who might be listening right now whose only reason to listen is that his wife has said, “This will be really important to me, so would you do this?” And maybe his mind has wandered, or he’s pulled out his cell phone, or he’s texting somebody.

So I pray for him right now. I pray that You would, by a miracle of the Holy Spirit, give my voice a chance to communicate to his heart. I pray that you’ll give him—this man, this friend of mine whom I’ve not met yet—the courage to just do it! To step out.

Even if it’s for a questionable motive right now, that he’ll soon understand the joy that Bob was just talking about, of saying “yes,” and going to church and sitting with other believers, bumping into guys that he may know from work or from his kids’ ball games when they sit close to each other in the stands.

I pray he would also realize that Your Word is truth, and that by way of Your Holy Spirit you speak to us in the crevices and the creases of our hearts that we haven’t allowed anybody to enter. Those secret places that nobody knows. It’s in that context You love us. You don’t love us in spite of our stuff; You love us because of our stuff.

And so, we worship You and we thank You. I pray that You’ll bring transparency—not only into my own heart and my friend Bob’s heart, but to the hearts of the men who are listening here. I pray that you would give his wife the joy of being a safe place, for him to tell her who he is—his fears, his anxieties, his worries.

I just pray that by way of, again, the power of Your Holy Spirit, you’ll bind hearts together and you will give us the truth that sets us free. So I thank You for the privilege of having this conversation, for the privilege of putting some ideas down on paper or on an audio book, that would have a chance—just a chance–to touch a man’s heart and to transform his heart. Then by way of that, to transform his marriage, if he’s married, or just his own life, with his friends, with his colleagues. So, thank You again for the privilege of doing things like this that matter, by Your grace, in Jesus’ name, amen.

Nancy: Thank you for that prayer, Honey, and I’m so thankful that you’ve written this book. I know it was a labor of love. I watched you pour out yourself month after month until this came to be. And now it’s here! Congratulations!

Robert: Thank you.

Nancy: And we’re celebrating the release of this book. I know, Dannah, that many of our listeners want to have a chance to read it or to give it to a husband that they know would have a heart for it.

And, Robert, as I’ve heard you say before: Don’t give it “at” your husband or your son or whatever. But you may want to share it. And there are men listening who will want to get this this. Maybe there are small groups of men who will want to go through the study together.

But, Dannah, we want to just make that book available to our listeners—men or women—today. Tell us how they can get that.

Dannah: You may want a copy of Lies Men Believe and the Truth That Sets Them Free. And we would love to give you a copy today as our way of saying “thank you” when you make a donation to Revive Our Hearts. You can give us a call at 1–800–569–5959, or you can make your gift online at ReviveOurHearts.com. Be sure to make a note to ask for Robert’s book Lies Men Believe.

Nancy: We’re going to pick up with this conversation again tomorrow, so we invite you to join us again for Revive Our Hearts. Again, you might want to ask your husband or a son or a dad to join you as we continue this conversation.

Revive Our Hearts with Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth wants to help you say “no” to lies and walk in the truth. It’s an outreach of LIfe Action Ministries.

*Offers available only during the broadcast of the podcast season.