Revive Our Hearts Podcast

Episode Resources

Watch Jackie's courtship videos.

Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth: In 2008, the Lord brought together a group of women in Schaumburg, Illinois for the first True Woman conference. A True Woman Movement was born in that place that weekend and by God's grace, it’s continued to grow in hearts and homes around the world. Now, ten years later we're coming back to celebrate what God has done, and we’ll look at what He's doing in women's lives today and what He may have in store for the years ahead.

Dr. Eric Mason, Dannah Gresh, Betsy Gómez, Mary Kassian, and others will be joining us at True Woman '18. And Jackie Hill Perry, who you'll be hearing in the conversation today on the broadcast, will be joining us as well. I hope you’ll be there September 27–29 in Indianapolis. The early registration ends May 1, and we're expecting that this conference will sell out before summer, so make your plans now and get all the details at ReviveOurHearts.com.

Leslie Basham: This is Revive Our Hearts with Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth, author of Lies Women Believe, for Wednesday, April 4, 2018.

This week Nancy has been talking with spoken word poet, Jackie Hill Perry. Yesterday, we heard about the power of the gospel to save Jackie from a lifestyle of homosexuality. To hear that part of the story, go to our archives at ReviveOurHearts.com.

Now, here’s Nancy continuing that conversation with Jackie Hill Perry. And if you have younger children with you, know that they cover some mature themes.

Nancy: You experienced temptation, you said as a young believer, still some of the things that had been so much of your life. Did the temptation begin to diminish? What was that process of the Lord changing you in those areas?

Jackie: I think the first two years were probably the hardest because the temptations were still so frequent, so real, so tangible.

Nancy: Did you ever fall?

Jackie: Yes. Not physically, but emotionally yes. I had a relationship with a friend who used to be a lesbian. We were emotionally, I think, in a relationship. We wouldn’t have called it that. We called each other best friends. But it was a relationship that was not okay. It was definitely idolatry—needing each other in ways that we should not have needed each other, being with each other far too often.

Breaking is one of the counsels that I try to offer for people. What happens is they might come out of the lifestyle and say, “Now, I need to save everybody in it. I need to disciple everybody that’s gay.”

And I say, “I don’t know if that’s wise for you right now. I think you need to be discipled. I think you need to be poured into. I think you need to care about God anchoring your heart, because it’s dangerous in fleeing something that was an idol to you and going back in it and not thinking that you won’t be held captive again."

I became a product of that in the name of evangelism, and so I fell a lot, I think. When I got discipled and I learned how to be honest with myself about my temptations; how to be honest with other people and be okay with exposing myself, but also how to fear God and love Him and apply His gospel to my temptations, is when it’s not like they subsided, but I think they had less power over me, over my mind—as I just learned to love God in everything .

I just realized that pride is a bigger issue than homosexuality is. Submission is a bigger issue than that is. I think that’s a manifestation often times of other issues. I think as I started to grow in love with Jesus, it just got better.

That doesn’t mean that I’m still not tempted because I do still see women as beautiful. There are times when my mind wants to see them as beautiful in another light, in a light that’s perverted and a light that’s not right. I have the option to see God as better.

I think what I’ve tried to learn to do is like, “You can lust after her or you can pursue this. It won’t make you happy. It doesn’t make God happy. It won’t satisfy you. God is good. He’s better. He’s worthy. He’s merciful. He’s gracious. Choose Him in this moment.”

I think it’s hard to even think about the characteristics of God and then look at a woman and think that they are better than Him. It’s like, “No. He’s good. He’s merciful. What has He done? What did He do on the cross?” So part of that process has helped me.

Nancy: So was there a point at which you found yourself identifying internally in your mind and your thoughts and your emotions more as a woman and more as a heterosexual? Feeling this is who I am. This is what I am. Was that more just a mental thing first? Did the emotions follow?

Jackie: I don’t think I ever titled myself like that. I never said that I was gay. I said that I was straight, but I don’t know if I really thought about it as much. I think I was just living. I don’t think I really started to really consciously think about my womanness until I got married and became a mother. That’s when it became real.

Nancy: So let’s talk about how you got to that place. When you became a Christian, at that point had you ever envisioned yourself marrying a man? Is that something you wanted?

Jackie: I wanted it. I didn’t think it would be fun. I thought it would be something that I had to do because I’m a Christian now. But I didn’t see it as something that I would embrace or enjoy. I think that’s why I was okay with being single for so long. I wasn’t content in being single. I just didn’t want to be with boys. I was fine with that. I needed to learn about Jesus and like people and love people and serve people more. I loved God, but I didn’t like men, still.

I knew that it would have to be a work of God for me to even think of being with a dude. So when I did start to feel an affection for Preston, I thought I was just bored. I thought maybe I just wanted somebody to text when I’m at home. I don’t think this is real.

Nancy: Tell us how he came into your life.

Jackie: When I was in LA, there was an event called “The Lyricist Lounge.” And this guy walks up with this other girl to do this duet poem called “Soul Ties.” I have never seen two people do poetry at the same time before. That was new to me.

I’m watching him, and I’m like, “Okay, that was a cool poem.” But I saw that he could have done better. When I was going to the back of the church, Preston speaks to me. He said, “Your poem was tight. That was cool.”

I said, “Yours was too, but you were holding back.”

He was like, “Huh?”

Nancy: This was the first time you met him?

Jackie: Yes. He was like, “Huh?” I was like, “You were holding back, but you did good. I just know you were holding back.”

He told me he was just taken aback because, “I had just met this girl, and she corrected me, but instantly that made me like you.” He likes people who are honest with him. He was like, “I was holding back—a whole lot.”

That was the first time we met. I heard his testimony; he heard my testimony. I corrected him, helped him a little bit, and we became friends for about three years.

Nancy: Was he living out there?

Jackie: No, he lived in Chicago, and I lived in LA.

Nancy: So this was a long distance friendship?

Jackie: Yes. But we saw each other a lot just because we did poetry—travel and poetry. I would be in Chicago. He would be in LA. So we were cool. There were a lot of times when he would call me a lot and want to talk to me. I was trying to guard my heart. I didn’t want to have affections for people in ways that I didn’t think was wise. We didn’t talk as much as he probably would have liked. I started to feel an attraction for him. I just thought I was bored and lonely. So I talked to my discipler. I said, “I’m starting to like Preston, and I don’t know what to do with this. I think I’m just being thirsty. I don’t know.”

She said, “Take it to the Lord. Submit it to Him. Let Him handle it.” So that happened for about a year. I never acted out on it. I never told him. I never let on that I liked him. I remember even asking friends around us, “Do I act if I like Preston?” She was like, “No. If anything, he acts like he likes you.”

Finally, I went to God. I said, “Lord, my affections for Preston are increasing, and I don’t know what to do with this. I need Your help. If it’s Your will for us to be together, then put it on his heart to pursue me, because I don’t feel like that’s my place to pursue him. But if it is Your will for us to just be friends, please give me the self-control to treat him like a brother and not a crush.”

A couple weeks or a week later he calls me and he said, “I've got to tell you something.”

And I was like, “What?”

He said, “Um. God has put it on my heart, I think, to pursue you. I don’t even know if you like me, but I like you. Do you even like me?”

And I said, “Yes. I do.”

He was like, “Really? I’ve never known.”

I said, “Yes. I’ve liked you for a year.”

Nancy: Good for him for stepping up to the plate.

Jackie: I know. He was terrified. But when he found out that I liked him, he was like, “That meant so much to me because most of the women that liked me have always told me. It always made me not want to pursue them because they’ve taken the power that I could have had to just be the man and start the relationship off.”

Nancy: As you entered into that relationship, that courtship, you guys were very brave. You videotaped pieces and parts of that and let everybody see it. It wasn’t all smooth.

Jackie: No, it was terrible.

Nancy: How was it terrible?

Jackie: It was terrible. It was really a rough time. Preston was the first male relationship I’ve had. Also, not only was I adjusting to being with a man with how men think, how men act, but also being with a man physically. I wasn’t used to beards. I wasn’t used to somebody being stronger than me. I wasn’t used to a man holding me like a woman. I wasn’t used to that. I didn’t like it.

It felt like his strength made me feel inferior. “I don’t like the fact that you’re stronger than me. I don’t like that you have the possibility to rule me in certain ways.” That was a hard adjustment.

Even the hugging thing. That makes you feel feminine when men hug you. I didn’t want to feel feminine. I didn’t want to feel weak. It was hard in that sense.

Also, being with him brought out a lot of the lies I had been believing about men. I fought against it. I didn’t trust him. I felt like he would hurt me. I felt like any access he had to my heart would be a means by which he would turn his back on me—like my dad did.

I had fear of pain, and I had fear of the word submission. In my mind, I wasn’t going to submit to him because submitting to him meant that he could hurt me, so I was going to show him that I was stronger than him.

For two years our relationship was just butting heads the entire time. While I was scared that he was going to hurt me, I bucking up against him and not trusting him, and he was trying to fix me. So in him trying to fix me, he was trying to dominate me. He wanted to have a conversation about Scripture every single week about submission . . . and this and this and this. So I’m fighting him, and he’s fighting me. It was just terrible.

Nancy: It was a battle of the sexes.

Jackie: It really was. And that didn’t change until we go married.

Nancy: You got married out of that journey?

Jackie: Yes.

Nancy: In fact, I remember seeing a video where you guys videoed a counseling session you had with your pastor, Pastor Brian. If I remember correctly, you had just had a big argument on the way to the counseling session.

Jackie: Probably. I think we did.

Nancy: I think that’s what you talked about in that counseling session.

Jackie: Yes. We were mad at each other.

Nancy: So why did you get married?

Jackie: We felt called to each other. I knew Preston was my husband for very practical reasons. He was the only man I respected in that way. He was one of the few men in my life that I really respected. I saw that he loved God. He loved people. He was consistent. Consistency is a really big deal to me. He consistently loved me.

I remember in June, around my birthday, before we got engaged, I was dealing with depression. When I deal with depression I’m automatically attacked with homosexuality because I want to go back to what is comforting.

I remember telling him, “I don’t know why I’m with you. I should just be with girls. I don’t know why we are together. I don’t like you. I don’t love you. I don’t think this is going to work.

Preston cried, and Preston is not a crier. So the next day . . . We were in Trinidad. So when we came back to America, we were just done talking with each other. I was at work, and he texted me and said, “I love you.”

I just broke. I had just rejected this man and told him that I should be with women and that I should not be with him. And he responded by not bringing any of it up, and by saying, “I love you.” It was like, “I can’t not marry him. I can’t not marry someone who loves me like Jesus.”

That mixed with we have the same goals and visions, and he loved me.

Nancy: So did you get married anticipating you would keep butting heads? Did you think it would be magically good after that?

Jackie: No. I was actually encouraged that we butted heads a lot. We got counsel while we were dating and engaged because we needed help from wiser people than us. Though we butted heads, we were learning how to work our issues out in a functional not a dysfunctional way.

I was encouraged because I knew so many married people wear all the butterflies and stuff while they are courting, and when they got married it went all haywire because they were caught off-guard by how marriage wasn’t easy. So I felt we were primed in a way to deal with the difficulties in marriage that other people weren’t.

When we did get married, one thing that completely changed with how we dealt with each other was when we started to trust each other more.

We have cable. There was a time our cable got cut off for some reason. We didn’t have money. We were so forced to talk and be with each other for weeks. That month where we were just with each other, we became friends again.

When we became friends again, we trusted each other in ways where he loved me and let the Holy Spirit do His thing, not trying to force me or change me or fix me, but love me in ways where he trusted God to do the work.

And his love for me . . . I saw that he’s chilling out. He loves me. He’s not forcing me to be something I’m not. I started to submit in love and respected him in ways where we just became “cool” and friends. Before we had just fought every day.

I know fighting is not the barometer of a marriage, but now we barely argue. We really do love each other and enjoy each other. I think spending time with each other and trusting God with each other did something in us.

Nancy: You hadn’t had a lot of positive role models for men or for women in marriage. The whole issue of respect, was that a new thing for you?

Jackie: Absolutely. I not naturally a respectful woman. I was taught that you say what you want. You say how you feel. I can be very sharp and quick. If I felt a certain way, then I said it.

Preston had to tell me, “I don’t like when you speak to me like that.” I thought it was strange. I was thinking, I just asked you what you want to do. But the way I would ask him was just such a domineering, disrespectful way.

I think that I needed to see that in my submission and in my respect, it wasn’t me being inferior, it was me living like Jesus. It was me honoring him. It was me humbling myself and that these things were beautiful to God.

I think that when I started to see my behavior as a wife through the lens of Scripture instead of culture is when I found joy. It was then I did it with joy. I think if the culture defines my womanness, then I’m always going to be very rebellious and I’m going to think God’s Scriptures are foolish, when they are not—they are good.

Nancy: You said that when you got married is when you grappled with your womanhood in a new way. How did that happen?

Jackie: I wanted to be like Titus 2: to be wise, to be a homemaker, to respect and love my husband, so that the Word of God would not be reviled. I didn’t want the Word of God to be reviled.

I wanted to figure it out so that I could be pleasing to Jesus. Also, I knew that God had given me a lot of influence with people. So with me wanting to honor God, it was also me not wanting to lead other people astray.

It was like, "If you follow Jesus Christ, like I follow Christ, then I need to follow Him right. I need to follow Him well."

I just really tried to live out: What does it mean to be respectful? How does language impact my worship? How does language impact my husband?

I think that seeing how much I affect him . . . I affect him in ways that other people don’t. So it was like, “Do I want to affect him in ways that keeps him from living the way God has called him to do?” If he’s my leader, if he’s the authority over me, then I want to help him in a way that makes Jesus happy—even with my words, even with my tone, even with my facial expressions. My eyebrows can say a whole lot.

Nancy: Even without you opening your mouth.

Jackie: Even without me saying anything.

So in being a wife, I felt obligated in a way to figure out what it meant to be a biblical wife and not just be a woman with a ring on her finger.

Nancy: How would you describe your relationship today? How is it different from when you first got married?

Jackie: We have fun together. We listen to each other. We consider each other in the small things. I love Food Network. He loves Animal Planet. So oftentimes it will be like, “Do you want the remote so you can watch Animal Planet?” And he’ll say, “I’ll watch one show and then you can watch rest.” So just the little stuff where we consider each other’s feelings.

Our schedules are crazy oftentimes. I try to honor him even with my schedule. I know that if I’m going to be out of town Friday and Saturday, then I’ll be sure that my schedule is clear on Sunday so I can spend time with him. Or I’ll say, “Feel free to go out with your friends because I know you’ve been home all day. Go do your thing.” Just finding ways to honor each other in ways we didn’t before.

Then if he tells me to do something, I try my best to not respond in a rebellious way and see that he wants the best for me. He’s not trying to control me. He’s trying to honor me and do what’s best.

Nancy: Jackie, I wish Preston was here today as part of this conversation. We had originally thought he might be, but he’s taking care of Eden today who has a little cold. He’s at home. Could we give him a call? I’d love to have him weigh in with some perspective on what we’ve been talking about.

Jackie: No problem. Go ahead.

Nancy: Hey Preston. It’s your friend, Nancy, and your wife Jackie.

Jackie: Hi Sugarplum.

Preston: Sugarplum?

Jackie: I’ve never called you that in my life.

Nancy: We’ve been having this amazing conversation with your wife and hearing her side, her version of the story of, one, how she came to know Jesus, then your courtship and your marriage.

I thought, I’d love to get your perspective on some of this. Do you have a few minutes where we can pick up the conversation?

Preston: Yes. Sure.

Nancy: So Jackie’s telling us that during your courtship you guys fought a lot. Is that how you remember it?

Preston: Yes, we did.

Nancy: Why do you think that was?

Preston: I think it was multiple things. I know on my part, God really convicted me when He showed me that I was trying to mold Jackie into what I wanted her to be as a wife instead of just nurturing her with love and discipling her like I should be. I became more like a Pharisee than like Christ to her.

There was a season in the beginning of our marriage where she said she hated coming home because I always wanted to talk and bring out her flaws. On my part, I know that was one of the reasons why.

Then I think the main reason was we just didn’t know each other. I think we knew each other on a personal, friendship level, but the dynamic of our relationship changed drastically.

Courtship is one thing, but marriage is a beast of itself. So when we got married, it was just a time where we had to learn about each other.

Nancy: Was it a challenge for you to handle her past, that she struggled with her womanhood, with her sexuality? Was that an obstacle for you? Did the Lord give you grace to love her through that? How did you feel about that?

Preston: I think it was a mixture of the Lord giving me a lot of grace. I had a past of my own, so during our courtship and when I felt the Lord was leading me to pursue her, I think the Lord prepared my heart in such a way where those things weren’t as difficult to deal with.

I looked at her past like my past. She struggled with sin. I struggled with sin. It was different than mine, but it was still sin. I knew it. And the Lord prepared my heart.

I think God was just sovereign in allowing us to be friends for three years, as well, because it was as though as I knew those small feelings might come up one day or just thinking about what she went through in her past. She was my friend for three years before I pursued her. We had a very honest and open relationship before I even thought about pursuing her.

I mean, when I used to want to talk to girls, I would go to Jackie and ask, “Jackie, what do you think about this girl?” And vice versa. Sometimes she would talk, and she would tell me her struggles.

I think the main thing, actually, that helped me with that in our marriage is though I knew she might struggle at times, because I knew her so well, I trusted in her character. I trusted that the Lord really saved this girl. I trusted that the Lord would keep her. So that’s kind of my whole thing.

I’ve had people ask me that question before, especially guys, “Are you afraid because of her past and all that?”

And I’m like, “No, I really don’t trust in Jackie like that. I have to just trust in the Lord that redeemed her.” Overtime, I was really confident that God had saved her from her past.

Nancy: Hearing you talk about how God had forgiven you reminds me of that passage in Luke 7 where it says, “He who has been forgiven much, loves much.” And I think to have a consciousness of your own sin and need gives a lot of grace then to extend to others with their issues.

Preston: Yes.

Nancy: Jackie talked a little bit about how, because she had not had really great role models of manhood or womanhood and said she wasn’t respectful. She had a problem with authority and talked a little bit about how . . . By the way, I love how she talks about you. It’s really, really sweet. But she talks about how earlier in your marriage she felt a lot of freedom to just say things disrespectfully and had a lot of learning and God changing her. How have you seen her change in those areas? And what does that mean to you as a man?

Preston: Man. It means a lot. I’ve seen Jackie change drastically. That’s the beauty of being in a marriage with someone who has the Holy Spirit. It’s like if we weren’t Christians, it wouldn’t work.

Jackie: It so wouldn’t!

Preston: It just wouldn’t.

Nancy: You guys get married knowing that you both have trust issues, that you have fear issues. And Preston, knowing that Jackie has had a fear of being hurt, but she wants to trust the Lord. How does that motivate you as a man to . . . what kind of husband does it help you become? What does that do to you as a man realizing the responsibility you have now as the husband of this woman who’s got a fear of pain?

Preston: Yes. That’s a good question. A lot of things, and to be honest with you, in the beginning it was trial and error. God doing a work in me, too. One of the things the Lord showed me in the beginning was . . . He did a work in me that was this whole process of me trying to love Jackie, if that makes any kind of sense.

I think God revealed a lot of selfishness. God revealed a lot of pride in my own heart dealing with someone who has a hard time trusting me. He just showed me, “Are you willing to really love like I love you? Are you willing to sacrifice your feelings, your own emotions, your own pride, your own selfishness? Are you willing to lay all of this down in order to please Me in how you love Jackie?”

I was consistently faced with that question a lot. God began to do a work on me. So I think a lot of it was a personal call to the Lord. It was just like, “Okay, I know Jackie is doing this. But what am I telling you to do. I know Jackie’s not responding to you right now, but what am I telling you to do? Who are you trying to please? I know you feel rejected, but I was rejected for you, you know.”

It was always self-reflecting. It was just like, “Ahhhh God!” I honestly got tired of it. I got irritated so many times. I think it helped me, and I think in turn it gave me more grace.

I think for Jackie, too, she had to have a lot of grace for me in the beginning and vice versa. I think that over time the Lord did a work in my heart personally. As He did a work in my heart, I think it was easier and easier to deal with.

Nancy: It’s interesting to hear both of you, that you realize it’s not your marriage that’s the issue as much as your relationship with the Lord. As He’s worked in that, then He’s worked in your marriage. It’s interesting watching the marriage highlights video that you guys have on YouTube, hearing Jackie’s mother say, “She’s hard-headed and stubborn, and He’s hard-headed and stubborn.” Would you say that was true of both of you?

Jackie: Yes.

Preston: A lot of people who know both of us, they asked us a lot. I had a guy who I walked with in church ask me how do we coexist together? He knows both of us. He knows me better. He was just like, “How do you guys get along? Don’t you guys bump heads?”

Because a lot of people look at us as very hard-headed and stubborn and really strong willed people. So, I had people telling me this wasn’t even going to work—in the beginning, it wasn’t going to work out. But I think it was grace, really.

Jackie: Yes, God is good.

Preston: A whole lot of grace.

Jackie: I think I had to learn that having trust issues is not any excuse not to obey God. I think I really had to tap into the primary commandments are to love God and love people. If you have a trust issue, you deal with that, but that’s not any excuse for lovelessness. It’s not.

So the way I treat Preston is the way I’m treating God. I have to die to myself and love this man regardless of what my past may have done to me. That’s not an excuse to let people walk over us or whatever, but it’s just you honor God by loving him even if you’re scared. Love God more. Don’t fear what is fearful.

Nancy: Well, I’ll just say, as an outsider looking in on your relationship over now the last several years, it has just been really a one a great joy for me. Of course, when I started watching your courtship develop I had no idea that when we were having this conversation I would be married myself.

But to watch the two of you both really pursue the Lord and to let Him mold and shape and pursue you, and to watch two strong people with a lot of baggage and a lot of issues get to the cross, get to the grace of God and keep drinking deeply at the fountain of His amazing love and grace, and then to watch Him build this beautiful growing marriage and family, it’s a testimony. It’s a huge testimony to the power of God to transform, to renew minds.

I look at you guys and I think there’s nothing too difficult for God. And then to see Him making you fruitful and using you guys to minister to and bless others. There’s still so much of that story yet to be written. I can hardly wait to see all that God has in store and the way He wants to use you. It makes me also feel the need to really pray for protection for your hearts, for your marriage because the enemy, I can’t imagine, is taking this sitting down.

Preston: When you say that, I can’t help but think how influential you and Robert have been with me and Jackie. I know you personally have poured into Jackie and have been an inspiration to Jackie for some time now.

Jackie and I were talking during your wedding, and we want to renew our vows, now. Because after that wedding, the way that you guys honored the Lord . . . Robert stood there and just quoted Scripture to you. It’s like he made me check myself. You know, man, I need to step my game up.

But just to see you single for so many years and then trust the Lord when he sent Robert your way. We just really saw submission to the Lord that I don’t have. That was a blessing to see. So you guys have been an inspiration to us.

Nancy: Thank you for sharing that. You’re inspiring us, and we are learning from you. All of us really are looking to the Lord. He’s the pattern, right? For manhood, for our womanhood, for marriage, I mean, His submission to the Father, His care for His Bride, the Church. In every way it’s Christ who gives us the portrait, the picture of who He wants us to be.

So we’re in this together, growing, seeking Him. Thank you for joining our conversation. I want to pray a blessing on you guys if I can do that before we leave you here.

Preston: Yes. Yes.

Nancy: Lord, I listen to Jackie and Preston, and I’ve watched them and listened to them over the years and seen something of their journey, their pilgrimage, their discipleship. It’s been such a joy to see You drawing their hearts to Yourself, bringing them to faith, to repentance, to grace. The transforming work of Your Spirit and Your Word in their lives has been really powerful.

And now to see You having brought them together and keeping them together and making them not just in a tolerable marriage but in a marriage that is growing and a growing friendship and a growing fruitfulness and now having entrusted them with this precious little girl. And Lord, only You know what You have in store for them in the years ahead.

But I pray that every one of Your good purposes for them would be fulfilled. I pray that what the enemy intended to trap them, to ensnare them, to put them in bondage, to ultimately bring them to death, thank You that the works of darkness have been overcome by Christ and His cross and that now they are walking in the light. They’re walking in truth.

I pray that their lives might be fruitful, that they might be protected from every assault from the evil one. In the days when they may face stresses or challenges or obstacles that perhaps they haven’t even anticipated at this moment, as Robert and I will as well, and in those times, I pray that they would keep running to You and find You trustworthy and faithful and true and powerful.

And that Your presence in their lives and in their marriage and in their home would not only be a light and a power to them, but also that then You would use them to be a light and bring the presence of Christ into other homes, other hearts, other marriages and into this dark culture that so desperately needs to see the reality of who You are and the reality of Christ-centered love.

So, thank You, Lord, for them. Bless them. Protect them. Support them. Sustain them. Sanctify them by Your grace. And continue to satisfy them both with Your steadfast love. And I pray it in Jesus’ name, amen.

Leslie: That’s Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth praying for Jackie Hill Perry and her husband, Preston. All week, Jackie’s been telling us about her journey. She was a girl full of hurts who got into lesbian relationships. She’s been showing us the power of the gospel to transform a life.

Her growth and discipleship hasn’t always been easy or simple, but it’s a beautiful thing to observe. If you know anyone who has faced hurt or abandonment in their lives, this series would be encouraging to them. You can hear it again or read the transcript at ReviveOurHearts.com.

And you can hear Jackie speak when she joins us at True Woman '18, the conference coming to Indianapolis, September 27–29. Nancy will be there along with Dr. Eric Mason, Mary Kassian, Betsy Gómez, and Dannah Gresh. Seating is limited, so get details and make plans now.

When you register before May 1, you can get in on the early pricing discount. Get all the details at ReviveOurHearts.com, or call 1–800–569–5959.  

When Jackie Hill Perry became pregnant with her first child, she was struggling to see the baby as a gift. She heard the Holy Spirit speaking to her heart.

Jackie: “You can’t say you want Me to get the glory out of your life and then you’re mad at the ways I choose to do it. It’s like if you want Me to be exalted and glorified, then let Me be Lord in that area.”

Leslie: More from Jackie tomorrow on Revive Our Hearts.

Revive Our Hearts with Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth is an outreach of Life Action Ministries, pointing us to the truth that sets us free.

*Offers available only during the broadcast of the podcast season.