Revive Our Hearts Podcast

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Creatively Living Out the Beauty of the Gospel Together

Dannah Gresh: Patsy stepped out in faith to start a book study with other women in her church. 

Patsy Muri: I said, “Lord, if two ladies will come, I’ll be happy.” Well, nine came, and I thought, Hallelujah! I bet they’ll never come back. I just thought, Oh, they’ll just come one time, and that’s it. All we have is the book. I don’t have any other resources, so we read. And they love it! I’m up to twenty-one women! I just love it!

Dannah: This is Revive Our Hearts with Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth, author of Adorned, for December 10, 2020. I’m Dannah Gresh. 

Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth: As we approach a new year, let me offer you a challenging thought. Perhaps in the year ahead, God wants to use you to disciple other women. If you feel intimidated by that idea, I want to tell you, you’re not alone. We are all weak and needy and frail and flawed. I get that! 

No matter how old we are or how long we’ve been walking with the Lord, none of us feels completely ready to pour into the lives of others. And that’s why I think you’ll be encouraged today by the stories of Kathleen Hildebrand and Patsy Muri. These are two women who have responded to God’s call to invest in the lives of women in their churches.

They’d be quick to say that, if God can equip them to serve, He will equip you as well. Back before the COVID pandemic began, Patsy and Kathleen visiteda live Revive Our Hearts recording session here in southwest Michigan.

While they were here, we talked with both of them about some of the amazing things God can do when women are willing to invest spiritually in the lives of other women.

Kathleen Hildebrand: My husband, Michael, and I have been married for twenty-eight years (coming up on twenty-nine). We have seven children, and five are now college age and older. Three are married, and we have four grandchildren. Two are still at home.

Dannah: One day in February of 2017, Kathleen was listening to her local Christian radio station as she drove. 

Kathleen: I heard the “Slander,” program from the “Adorned” series.

Dannah: Okay, this needs some explanation. Here’s what she means. In the spring of 2017, Revive Our Hearts broadcast a series called “God’s Beautiful Design for Women: Living Out Titus 2:1–5.Two of the programs in that series correspond with a chapter in Adorned. That’s the book Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth wrote exploring Titus 2.

The chapter was all about slander—what it means, and what to do if we’ve slandered others. Kathleen caught one of those programs in her car.

Nancy (from “God’s Beautiful Design”): Slander involves spreading a false report about someone. Specifically, slander refers to saying something that is not true; it’s false. But it can also involve spreading harmful information about another person. That’s a variation, a cousin if you will, to slander. The Scripture calls it tale bearing—spreading things about somebody else that are harmful.

Dannah: As Kathleen listened, she felt convicted.

Nancy (from “God’s Beautiful Design”): So ask yourself: Am I guilty of slander? Am I guilty of evil speaking? Gossip? Related sins of the tongue? You may find as God searches your heart that you’ve been guilty of malicious speaking, of gossip, of slander toward people who have hurt you—maybe an ex-mate, it may be parents, it may be a boss who treated you unfairly.

Kathleen: I had just gotten to my destination where I had been traveling during the whole broadcast, and I stopped. I prayed and sobbed because I realized I had slandered in ways that I was not aware of. 

I went home that evening and pulled our son off the golf course. I said, “I have to tell you that I became aware of this biblical term, ‘slander.’ I didn’t think it touched me, but I did slander someone in a conversation with you. Would you forgive me?” 

He said, “Mom, I know you did, and I do forgive you.” 

It just was really major. He knew it! Maybe he didn’t realize it at the time, but when I brought it to his attention, what a teaching moment for him—to understand forgiveness, to understand the whole idea of slander.

Nancy: And doesn’t that make Christianity believable to the next generation, when they see us as older women humbling ourselves, acknowledging our need? That’s the point of this Titus 2 paradigm, mindset. We’re living out the beauty of the gospel together.

We’re living out the gospel in such a way . . . It’s not that we do it perfectly, but when we fail we acknowledge it, we ask for forgiveness. The younger generation knows when we’re claiming something we’re not living. What really impacts them is when we humble ourselves and acknowledge that. That’s sowing seeds of humility, which is what both generations need, right? 

Dannah: That series from Revive Our Hearts propelled Kathleen into action. First she spoke with Sandy, the wife of the lead pastor in her church.

Kathleen: I said, “Biblical womanhood is just something we don’t hear about. We don’t teach from the pulpit, just about anywhere.” 

And she just said, “Oh, yeah!” So she ordered Adorned (I had it already).

Dannah: Together, Kathleen, Sandy, and others began to lead studies for women in their church using the book as curriculum. They named the study group (not surprisingly) "Adorned!”

Kathleen: We see it as an ongoing discipleship class at our church. It just can’t be done without. So we’ll do it maybe twice a year from here on out in life groups and smaller home groups of ladies.

Nancy: Have you been in all those groups yourself? 

Kathleen: No, I personally have led five groups. One was with eighty ladies in our neighborhood who are age seventy-plus. That was an incredible twist, because that is just a different audience setup whom you are facilitating.

Nancy: Sure.

Kathleen: So you [Nancy], do the teaching; we just facilitate. 

Nancy: So do you use the audio teaching? What do you use for the class?

Kathleen: We assign all the broadcasts on a syllabus, that goes with the chapter, and then we show the video. We started showing the video from Session Two. On the first one, we would assign all the broadcasts that pertained to that chapter, and then we’d listen to a broadcast in class off of my phone.

Nancy: Just the audio? Off your phone?

Kathleen: Yes.

Nancy: Did anybody come back!? (laughter)

Kathleen: Yes, and now it’s really catching. People are hearing about it and wondering, “What’s next after Adorned? And what about our husbands!? Where is the Adorned for our husbands?” So, I do Like the Shepherd. 

Nancy: Which is written by Robert, my husband . . . a little plug for that.

Kathleen: Absolutely! 

Nancy: So the women who were seventy and older, how did they respond to the message?

Kathleen: Incredibly! It was different for them. They weren’t doing the learning anymore—although still re-sharpening. They were encouraged to have their Adorned “antennae” up to the ladies that were in their life—to start talking to their daughters more intentionally, their daughters-in-law, their granddaughters, women in the neighborhood, women in the church.

We encouraged them to think (as you’ve always said), “I’m not finished! This is important, to pass on our faith, generation to the next generation.” It’s starting to die out in our generation, but we can’t let that happen. We have a chance to keep that going forward.

Nancy: So when you say, Kathleen, that the older women have their Adorned “antennae” up, I can picture what that means, but describe what it means to you.

Kathleen: They’re aware of how important these character qualities are in a biblical woman, so now they’re sharpening them in their lives—these qualities, these values, these virtues. They’re realizing, “It’s not enough just to live this out myself. But then to look around and see whom I can at least spend time with and rub off on.”

It’s not always an intentional conversation . . . ask them to have coffee. We’re now thinking, Who needs some time that I can spend time with? And then, as they start to see our life living out these virtues, we can start to rub off on them. So it’s just kind of being aware of who we can have an effect on.

Nancy: Have you had some groups where it was multigenerational, where you had younger and older women?

Kathleen: Yes! Usually it’s a mix, and that’s really fun. The younger gals just are listening. And we keep it in one big group of discussion. Sandy and I feel like you can’t have separate tables and still gain from the rich conversations that everyone is able to add. 

So the older women feel like, “I can add something, and I’m not intimidated by the younger gals anymore. We’ve been told they need us. I feel needed, and they can learn from our mistakes and strengths.”

And the younger gals are asking lots of questions and just feeling reinforced, for the first time, from a biblical perspective instead of from what the world feeds them.

Nancy: I think that there has been so much in the church that has pulled us into our own generational subsets, subcultures. This is challenging us to bridge that and to have relationships, to be in community. 

We’re developing relationships, and it’s influencing and blessing them. It’s encouraging those young moms who are exhausted. But it’s also letting them bless and encourage us, because we’re exhausted some, too! And speaking to each other’s lives and growing together and being sensitive and alert to opportunities to care and invest in those next generations.

Kathleen: I like to say to the young moms, “Be intentional to tell your daughters. You need to tell your daughters this! Sometimes it’s not just enough to have them absorb it, but to be intentional. You need to pass this on to your kids. Because the world, for sure will. Another generation out won’t have any resemblance.” 

We talk about how our parents’ generation had backed up—at least in the TV shows and whatnot—some of our biblical values. But this generation it’s less so, and the next. We need to be intentional to tell our kids, “We are teaching you this; this is biblical! When you’re a mom and dad, you need to pass this on,” so that they are sharp and aware of that.

Nancy: Thank you, Kathleen. Good job, Kathleen! 

Patsy, tell us a little bit about your family.

Patsy: My husband and I farm and ranch in North Dakota, not far from Montana, just over there on the very west side. We have five children; we have thirteen grandchildren. 

Dannah: Patsy Muri shared that she first heard about Revive Our Hearts from her girlfriend who lives where she gets better reception on her radio than Patsy does.

Patsy: She was always telling me about this lady named Nancy DeMoss (before you were married, Nancy). She would say, “Oh Patsy, you’ve got to listen, too! It’s called Revive Our Hearts.” We cannot get it on our radios in our home, but my husband listens to you in the tractor every morning. (laughter)

He gets in the tractor and feeds the cows, and he can catch you along with the other preachers and people he listens to, so then he’ll tell me what Nancy was teaching that day.

Dannah: Up until recently, Patsy’s main interaction with Revive Our Hearts has been through our books and other printed materials. Well, that’s all changing, because Patsy is entering the world of podcasting. Mike Morledge, on our Revive Our Hearts staff, is seeing to that.

Patsy: Mike put the app on my phone last night! And guys, I’m going to get this technology! He showed me how to do that. So now I’ve got Revive Our Hearts on my phone! I just “grew up” last night. 

Nancy: You, too, can do this!

Dannah: I’ll mention quickly that if you have an Amazon or Google smart speaker in your house, you can tell it to “Play Revive Our Hearts,” and that’s another way you can listen.

Patsy: What I want to share is: I have a love for working with people with addictions. I come from a family of it.

Dannah: Patsy’s compassion for her relatives led her to a Christ-centered organization that specializes in helping people who are trapped in alcohol or drug addictions.

Patsy: I went to a Teen Challenge banquet, and I came home from the banquet and said, “I’d like to see if I could help here.”

Dannah: It wasn’t long before she had an opportunity to do just that.

Patsy: I got a letter telling me they were going to do some remodeling in the men’s dorm, and they were looking for people to come and help. It’s a three-and-a-half hour drive for me to go there. So my husband was going to come, but we had a cow catastrophe, so he couldn’t go. 

I went by myself and spent the day at Teen Challenge sanding windows and varnishing and so forth. I came back home and said to him, “I want to go down there, and I want to help. I want to do something else!” 

So I called a couple weeks later, after praying and having my husband’s blessing. I said to the lady, “I’d like to come back and help. What could I do?” 

And she said to me, “Well, what would you like to do?”

I said, “Well, I love to speak!” (You know, there are those of us who like to do that!) “Is there any place I could do some speaking?” 

And she said, “Absolutely!” 

And so, five years later, I go down to Teen Challenge the fourth week of every month. I spend two, three or four days (depending on what I’m working on), and I teach Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth’s material! I mean, I’m tellin’ ya, I hit it hard! 

When I started going down there and I saw the need, then my girlfriend said, “Oh, maybe you want to check: Nancy’s got some good books!” So that’s how that started.

Dannah: Patsy ordered the Bible study True Woman 201: Interior Design, by Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth and Mary Kassian. 

Patsy: Moody Press gave me permission, so I can print off copies, black and white (because the ink is too expensive for color copies). I go down and I teach chapel to the guys and the gals, and then I have dinner with the guys, and I do Bible study with the girls in the afternoon. 

We just are finishing the chapter on responsibility. I’ve been working on this for three or four years. I only go just those few days a month. There are many girls who have come and gone. And thanks to Mike (he sent a box of the actual books) so when the girls graduate now, they get a color copy that goes with their gift for when they leave. I just love it. I absolutely love it! 

Nancy: There’s a lot of content in there. 

Patsy: We go slow. We don’t rush, because we want them to get it. We take our time, and sometimes, when they get upset and they don’t like your questions and they don’t like what you’re implying, we go back and we hit it again tomorrow. I’m not very compassionate and soft, but I love them to death, and they know that!

Dannah: Patsy also leads the women through another Revive Our Hearts resource, a booklet by Nancy called A Portrait of Biblical Womanhood.

Patsy: Oh, wow! That is so good! I use that also. You sent me those cards, two sets of them, and I expound on them. I actually made little booklets out of one of your little pamphlets, because I wanted them to really digest what you are doing. 

So we stapled together papers, and I kind of go off on what you do. I use it, but I add to it, because I want them to get it really good!

Dannah: Sometimes the women bristle at what the Bible says, especially when it comes to their relationships with men. Patsy says that’s understandable. 

Patsy: They’ve been in a lot of abusive situations, but they don’t know what God’s Word says, and that’s what we’re saying. So when I get upset girls, and they’re talking and they’re saying bad things, we go back to what the Word says. “This is what God says,” and then I leave it go. I cannot get into their lives. I’m not their counselor. Your material has been very, very helpful!

I teach an Adorned Bible study in our church on Wednesdays, and Kathleen is helping me, because I am so not “techy!” We have been reading your books, and I said, “Lord, if two ladies will come, I’ll be happy.” 

Well, anyway, nine came. I thought, Hallelujah! I bet they’ll never come back. I just thought, Oh, they’ll just come one time, and that’s it. All we have is the book. I don’t have any other resources. So we read. Then I give them homework, big-time homework. 

In fact, they’re working on homework right now out of Nancy’s book that has to be done. We’re going to do this! They love it! I’m up to twenty-one women! I just love it! I have about half and half, young and old.

We do a lot of fun things. We divide up in the class. The young go over there and talk about certain things. The older come over here. Then we come back together and teach. So I just really love that!

Dannah: One of the chapters in the book Adorned is called “Taste of Heaven.” It discusses how we can cultivate a heart for home, no matter what season of life we’re in. When their group gets to that chapter, Patsy gives them an assignment.

Patsy: Right now, their homework is from “Taste of Heaven.” You made a comment about asking the older women, “What are the insights and practical skills that you can give to the younger women?” Okay? So now I’ve got all the women divided up into four categories. 

I’ve said, “Okay, I want you to answer that, and I want you to give three or four thoughts to the young women in that area. Number One: Bible talk. Practical skills for young people. What helped you in your home biblically? What did you stand on? What were some things in God’s Word that helped you? That’s one category.

Another category I chose was: In-law Perspective. I want them to talk about In-law Perspective. We’re going to do that. And then Home Skills. And then, How to Reach Out, to have other people in your home, to have an impact in their life. Like inviting people in for supper, babysitting the neighbors down the street.

So we divided those into four categories, and now their homework, then, they have to give some ideas. Then we’re coming together, and the young girls are coming with questions. (They have questions that they have to ask us older women).

They don’t know this, but we’re going to go down to Butte, hopefully, and we’re going to have a picnic. I have put on parties. We do parties in our Bible study; we do fun, little things. I just like to celebrate. An eighty-year-old had a birthday, so we had a party. One of my women had a baby, so we had a party!

But we also study! We love the Adorned book, and we’re just having a blast!

Nancy: Okay, what I love about this (and you could multiply this around the room) is that these resources about different aspects of what it means to be a woman of God are available and people are taking them—people that we don’t know. 

But they buy the book or they get the broadcast or the podcast or resource, and they take it. They digest it; they make it a part of their own life. Then they creatively think, in their context, what is a way that they can share that with others? I know there are a lot of other women in the room who are doing that. That’s how a grassroots movement really gets going!

Women were talking about the women in Teen Challenge. A lot of the women at your church, for whatever reason, they’re not going to listen to Revive Our Hearts. But they’ve got women with skin on who are in their world who are connecting with them, who are walking them through a process. 

Some do homework, some don’t. Some do videos and audio, some don’t. Some have parties and some don’t. There’s almost not a wrong way; there’s not one right way. I love that. In so many different ways, these resources are going out.

We’ve just talked about two or three of them here, but there are lots of others. Depending on the season of life . . . I’m thinking even as you all are talking . . . 

You think about slander. Well, there’s one chapter in the book on that, but then there’s a whole study on Proverbs and the tongue; that’s a four-week study that a group can do. I’m thinking about your Teen Challenge women, Patsy. The verse that came to mind as you were talking is Psalm 107:20, “He sent out his word and healed them.”

And you’re saying, “I’m not a counselor, I can’t get into their lives, but I can give them the Word! “He sent His word and healed them.” We had the women here today from the SPA home, for women with addictions. And those women are so precious!

One of these women who was here today came to know Jesus a week ago today! She tells just how hard her life was and how full of so many wrong choices and how scared she is about this new-found faith. But knows that it’s exactly what she needs.

She said, “The people in my world, they’re so awful; they’re so mean!” A lot of the friends that she had in the former life that she had are not healthy influences. But she said, “I just hope that when I go back, I’m ready, and they can see the glow in me and I can be a witness to them!”

This is a week-old baby Christian . . . on fire! But it’s just helping to get them into the Word. In a lot of these women’s hearts, He’s going to heal the brokenness. No wonder women don’t want to hear about the right way for women to be with men if there’s been abuse. I get that. I don’t experience it, but I can imagine that that is really, really hard. 

But for the Word of God to wash them, to give them God’s perspective on what it means for them to be a woman and what it means to rightly relate to a man of God, this is a whole different way of thinking, a whole different worldview that God is going to give them. And, of course, those women are coming from really rough backgrounds.

But then you’ve got women at your church, Kathleen, or maybe at your church, Patsy, who are coming from way different—way churched—background, but who need the practical help. You’ve got those women over seventy who need something to do that’s meaningful use of their time, and you’re giving them a way to do that.

I just wanted a chance to hear from you, and I’m so grateful for what you’re doing. I pray a blessing on these Adorned groups, these True Woman groups, these women at Teen Challenge. Patsy, you’re driving three-and-a-half hours one way, once a month. 

Patsy’s in a season of life where she can do that. You may be in a season of life where you could do that, and I hope you’re challenged that you’d be willing to do that if God wanted you to, to make that trek for two or three days a month.

But you may have little ones, and you’re not in a season where you can do that. What can you do to invest in the lives of the people that God has put around you? We’re not saying you have to use our books or our resources. We’re just saying, “If they’re helpful, use them!”

And they’re helpful insomuch as they’ll help you and others get into the Word together. That’s the goal—not to spoon feed people, not to give them a substitute for God’s Word, but to get them into the Word. That’s what’s really going to make the difference in their lives!

So let’s thank these women for sharing. Thank you! 

Dannah: It’s so encouraging to hear just a few of the creative ways two of our listeners, Kathleen Hildebrand and Patsy Muri, are living out the beauty of the gospel in their spheres of influence. Does that inspire you? How can you reach out to others with intentionality? I hope we’ve given you some ideas today. I hope your creative juices are flowing just a little! 

Here at Revive Our Hearts we love to hear of different ways God is at work through this program and through our resources. He’s working His Word into the lives of women on the hot pavement of life. You play such an important role, helping us connect women to God’s Word. Our listeners make Revive Our Hearts possible through prayer and financial support.

We especially need your support right now. Between now and the end of the year, your gift will be doubled, dollar for dollar, by some friends of this ministry, up to a total amount of about 1.05 million dollars. That’s a very generous matching challenge! We need to hear from you soon, by the end of this month, in order to take advantage of this wonderful opportunity!

We don’t want to do anything to take away from your regular giving to your church, so make sure you keep being faithful there. But would you ask the Lord what He would have you give to support Revive Our Hearts at this crucial time?

I’m hoping every listener will get involved in some way by giving anything you can or by praying for this urgent need to be met. To give as part of this matching challenge, visit right now, or call us at 1–800–569–5959. 

So I have a question for you: Are you a spiritual mother to someone, a sister to someone, a daughter to someone? Tomorrow we’ll hear how three women from different backgrounds and generations are putting Titus chapter 2 into action. I hope you can join us again as we seek the Lord to revive our hearts.

Inspiring you to live out the beauty of the gospel creatively, Revive Our Hearts with Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth is an outreach of Life Action Ministries.

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About the Teacher

Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth

Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth

Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth has touched the lives of millions of women through Revive Our Hearts and the True Woman movement, calling them to heart revival and biblical womanhood. Her love for Christ and His Word is infectious, and permeates her online outreaches, conference messages, books, and two daily nationally syndicated radio programs—Revive Our Hearts and Seeking Him.

She has authored twenty-two books, including Lies Women Believe and the Truth That Sets Them Free, Seeking Him (coauthored), Adorned: Living Out the Beauty of the Gospel Together, and You Can Trust God to Write Your Story (coauthored with her husband). Her books have sold more than five million copies and are reaching the hearts of women around the world. Nancy and her husband, Robert, live in Michigan.