True Confidence

Dannah Gresh: Where’s your trust? Is it in something that will disappoint you? Here’s Mary Kassian.

Mary Kassian: The message of the Bible is that if we put our confidence in the Lord, we will never be let down.

Dannah: This is the Revive Our Hearts podcast with Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth, author of Adorned, for October 27, 2021. I’m Dannah Gresh.

Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth: Do you need to be more confident? I think a lot of women feel like they have room to grow in that area. The tension is, there’s a kind of confidence that you and I don’t want to be characterized by.

You see, conventional wisdom would say, “We need more self-love, self-affirmation, self-assurance, assertiveness in order to become confident women.”

But is self-centered confidence really the solution?

Our guest today is here to tell us there’s a better way, and God’s Word, as always, shows us that better way.

Mary Kassian is no stranger to Revive Our Hearts. In fact, she’s been a dear personal friend and a significant influence in my life since before Revive Our Hearts began. Mary is a wife. She’s a mom. She’s a grandma. She’s an author and a speaker.

She and I worked together on two books that are a part of the core curriculum of Revive Our Hearts: True Woman 101 and True Woman 201.

A couple of years ago, she talked with us about her book, The Right Kind of Strong. And now Mary’s newest book is titled, The Right Kind of Confident.

Recently, Dannah spoke with Mary about what true confidence looks like. Let’s listen.

Dannah: Mary, I think it’s just really interesting that we’re talking about confidence today, because just three days ago I called you. I didn’t call you as a coworker, as a colaborer. I called you as a friend. In fact, I called you on behalf of a number of friends who have been really concerned about you because you’ve been going through some really tough stuff—the kinds of things that would leave a lot of women quite wrecked and emotional.

But when I got off the phone with you, I actually remarked to my husband, “She was so calm and so confident.”

Would you mind sharing a little bit about what you’ve been walking through these last few weeks?

Mary: Sure.

I guess it was three weeks ago that my father collapsed with COVID pneumonia. He’s elderly. I’m the child that lives the closest, so I’m the most involved with their lives. I ended up being with him in the COVID isolation ward for two weeks solid—most days and some nights, because I was the only family member that was allowed in.

Dannah: You were allowed one family member.

Mary: One family member.

Dannah: Period.

Mary: Yes. No one else could go in. So would go into the COVID ward and spend my days there by his bedside.

So for several days, it looked as though we were going to lose him, as though we were going to have to say goodbye. And then he did pull through the two weeks, and then a week ago he was discharged. This past week he has been at home, and we’re still uncertain whether we’re looking at a recovery situation or at a palliative situation where he’ll be going to see the Lord.

But you know what, Dannah, one thing in particular that my father has always taught me is that we can have confidence in God and that God is sovereign.

Now, my dad went through war time. He went through a lot of different things in his life. He was actually in a prisoner of war camp. He was in the Russian Gulags. He went through Auschwitz-Birkenau for a while. He was tortured, was under Communism, and then escaped from East Germany. He smuggled people over to freedom. He has an incredible life story.

And one thing my father and my mother always say is very similar to Nancy saying, “Heaven Rules.” What they say is, “God is in control. We can trust Him.”

So that is really the source of my confidence. I think that’s the only source of confidence. Scripture tells us, and as I lay out in my book—and it’s funny that this is my COVID baby book. I wrote this during COVID on what it means to have confidence. Any other source of confidence, the Bible tells us, is like leaning on a spider’s web.

Dannah: Wow! Your dad is amazing! You were recounting to me that your mom was so sad that she couldn’t be with him as well. But she, too, exuded confidence in the Lord. What was it that your mom said when you were concerned for both of them?

Mary: Well, first, she obviously wanted to be with my dad. They’ve been married for seventy-one years, and never really been apart. So when I told her that he was having problems breathing, she said, “Oh, I just want to be by his side. When at night he has trouble breathing, I just want to hold his hand, and it gets better.” That was just so sweet.

And yet, it was interesting just to see how calm my mother was, just in saying, “Our days are in God’s hands. We’re ready to go home if it’s time to go home. And God has been so faithful.” And she actually used a German phrase which basically means, “Don’t let your heart be troubled. Don’t let yourself get flustered by this situation, and just allow the Lord just to minister peace to you.”

So I have been blessed just so richly by my parents and their walk of faith and what they have imparted to me throughout my life. I just hope to be the same sort of example for my children and for the people that I can impact in life, just in showing that true confidence is found in the Lord.

Dannah: Amen. Mary, it’s such a blessing that your parents’ confidence is in the Lord. And I truly heard that in your voice that your confidence was in the Lord.

But I’ve got to say, I’ve been noticing, and I can be guilty of this myself at times, that a lot of times when women go through circumstances like that, rather than being confident in the Lord, being calm in the Lord, we do give in to the stress, to the anxiety. There’s varying degrees when your parents are at an age where you’re ready for them to go be with the Lord. (Aren’t they in their nineties?)

Mary: Yes. They’re in their nineties.

Dannah: So it’s sometimes a little more traumatizing when you have a brother who’s in his forties. So I don’t want to trivialize this, but here’s a thought I want to explore: Is it possible that when we are prone to default to the anxiety rather than the confidence in those situations, that that is one symptom that’s evidence of the fact that women today have a confidence crisis?

Mary: Women today do have a confidence crisis. Actually, if you go into secular research it shows that in 85% of women, confidence is a huge issue. They have insecurities. They have fears. They have issues in their lives that actually keep them from functioning well. They shrink back. They draw back. They have anxieties. It keeps them from sleeping. It keeps them from participating in activities. They draw back from relationships. All sorts of things that confidence problems create.

And confidence is a huge problem. If we have a lack of confidence, it can create a massive problem in our lives because it creates other problems in terms of how it impacts us.

When we have confidence problems, we have problems with fear. We have problems with insecurity. We have problems sometimes with anxiety or depression. We just have trouble making life work.

Dannah: Yes. Lack of confidence can keep you from fulfilling God’s purpose in your life.

Mary: Absolutely, it could. And actually, psychologists say that confidence is often at the root of every other problem. When you drill down, it’s a lack of confidence often that causes us to self-destruct in our relationships.

So confidence is a really important thing for women to pursue. And the Bible would agree with that, that it’s very important for women to develop confidence. Confidence is a good thing.

But the type of confidence that the Bible wants us to develop is different than the kind of confidence that the world wants us to develop.

Dannah: How is it different?

Mary: Well, we’re given a formula (by the world) as women on how to be confident. We’re supposed to talk a certain way. We’re supposed to be assertive in a certain way, carry ourselves a certain way. And that’s what confidence is.

Dannah: Speak daily affirmations to ourselves.

Mary: Speak daily affirmations. Pump up our own tires. Believe in ourselves. Love ourselves more. And that’s how to become a confident woman.

But the Bible’s formula is really different. It’s really interesting . . . whenever the Bible talks about confidence, it doesn’t talk about a feeling, that confidence is how sunny and positive we feel about a positive outcome to whatever challenge we’re facing. But when Scripture talks about confidence, it always mentions the source of that confidence.

So, in other words, instead of talking about confidence in a general way that somebody has confidence, Scripture takes a look at what it is that that person is putting their confidence in, or putting their trust in.

So, whether you feel confident or you don’t feel confident, it isn’t really the primary concern of the Bible. The Bible is more concerned with: where is it that you are placing your confidence? Are you placing your confidence in something that is rock solid? Or are you placing your confidence in something that’s going to let you down?

Dannah: When I think about that, I think so much talk is about self-care. So much talk is about these daily affirmations. So much talk is about, as you put it, pumping up your own tires. I like that analogy. That’s funny.

It’s not that those things aren’t helpful. It is important. God tells us to take a Sabbath. So there is some sense in the Scriptures that we do have to slow down and care for ourselves well so that we can be a part of God’s kingdom work. There is nothing wrong with saying affirming things one to another and encouraging each other. The Scripture actually tells us to encourage one another with acts of love and good deeds.

But when that is the end of where we get our confidence, we are placing our confidence in those things. And those things are shaky, they’re frail. Right?

Mary: They are shaky and frail. So whether we put our confidence in our abilities or in our education or in our finances . . . perhaps we put our confidence in other people or in relationships or in our church or in our political situation. We’ve all experienced a shaking of that during COVID, haven’t we? Where everything that we thought in life has been shaken. Some people now are losing their jobs. Some people don’t have a job to go back to and are really struggling in so many different ways.

I don’t think it’s wrong to have confidence in people and in things. However, the Bible says when our confidence in those things are greater, if that’s what we’re leaning on, it will give way. So it talks about the spider web analogy in Job. Job chapter 8, verse 14. And it’s talking about an individual who’s putting his confidence in things other than in God and saying, “His source of confidence is fragile. What he trusts in is a spider’s web.”

That’s a fascinating picture, and it’s a great picture. Yes, there are sources of confidence—maybe our relationships, what we rely on in terms of our capability or education or our finances—we have a whole web of things in our lives that we rely on. But it’s a spider’s web, and it is fragile. If that’s all you’re leaning on, it’s going to give way at some point in time, and you will be disappointed.

So what we need is a source of confidence that is bigger than that, that underlies that, and really, in a sense comes before it. So that when that spider’s web gives way, we aren’t thrown, and we don’t fall. We are actually able to trust in God more than we trust in all those other things. That our security, when it lies in the Lord, it will hold us up, and it won’t let us down like leaning on a spider’s web.

Dannah: Yes. Leaning on a spider’s web. When the wind blows, everything is falling apart.

If you are building your confidence on those lines in the spider’s web, whatever that may be in your life, any source other than God, even good things, you’re going to feel bad when that thing gets blown over by the winds of life. Right? So that would be why our worldly definitions of confidence lead us to how we feel and how we emote.

What would God’s definition of confidence sound like, Mary?

Mary: God’s definition of confidence is all about who or what you trust. God’s definition of confidence is putting strong confidence in the Lord and trusting Him more than we trust other things.

So I think that you’re right. We all have things that we lean on.

I had a good strong education, and I rely on that in terms of how I live my life. We have enough money in the bank to meet our bills this month, and so I trust there will be the money there and that when I write a check or use my credit card that there will be finances to cover that.

I have friends who are a good source of encouragement for me, and they haven’t let me down. They’re good . . . I put my confidence in them.

There’s nothing wrong with all of that. Those are good things. Those are blessings in life. But, if I put my confidence in those things more than I put my confidence in the Lord, I might be let down.

Some of the people listening to this program have been let down by things that they have put their confidence in, whether it’s been their marriage or their children or relationships. Maybe it’s your church. Maybe people have been let down by other believers or by a church that they just put their confidence in and that was their source of confidence.

You know, Dannah, we’ve seen so many times over the last few years that even religious leaders that we have put our confidence in have let us down. There’s been failure. There have been failings where they’ve walked away from the faith or had a moral failure of some sort. So it’s disappointing. It is shattering sometimes.

Any woman who’s been betrayed in her marriage will feel shattered because the confidence she put in her husband has been shattered. So when our confidence is shattered, that’s a very difficult situation to be in. There’s certainly a lot of emotions that come with that.

But even in the midst of that, that’s like a call to trust the Lord and to say, “Listen.”

Dannah: It’s an opportunity.

Mary: It is an opportunity. Even if every single source of confidence in your life has let you down, like a spider’s web, you leaned on it, and it just gave way, the Lord will be your confidence. And that’s the message of the Bible. 

The message of the Bible is that if we put our confidence in the Lord, we will never be let down. And let me say, “In the Lord.” Not in what we expect the Lord to do. Not in the outcome. Not in what I want my life to look like or what I want God to do for me. But in His character, His nature, His faithfulness, His sovereignty, His greatness, His glory.

I think that’s why Scripture in Proverbs 14:26 says, “In the fear of the Lord, one has strong confidence.” I love that verse. “Strong confidence.”

Dannah: I like that, too.

Mary: Isn’t that what we all want?

Dannah: Yes. That’s the kind. I don’t want the weak kind. I don’t want the sometimes kind.

Mary: I don’t want the weak kind. I don’t want the fragile kind.

Dannah: Yes. Exactly.

Mary: I think that’s the message for women. You know, Dannah, you and I have worked with women all our lives through ministry situations. I see so many women struggling with confidence. They want to be strong confident women, but really, what they’re putting on is a front. It’s a fragile veneer. They come across as confident, but on the inside, they’re not.

And to those women, we want to say: there is a source of strong confidence. You can be a strong confident woman. And that’s what the Lord wants you to be. In the fear of the Lord, there is strong confidence.

Dannah: I couldn’t agree more. I want to ask a hard question, though. I feel like, when, as a Christian woman, it’s someone’s health or a financial problem or a hurricane, a national disaster or a house burning down, I feel like you still have the community of maybe your family, maybe your church, saying, “We can have confidence in the Lord.” But doesn’t that get a lot more complicated when it is—you just mentioned pastors and leaders betraying our faith and trust in them—a husband proving that he’s not been faithful or have integrity in the way you thought that he did. I feel like that’s a different level of testing of our confidence.

What would you say to the woman who’s angry right now, and she’s having a hard time putting her confidence in the Lord because she feels very betrayed by someone who she thought also had his or her confidence in the Lord?

Mary: I think that whenever we have a confidence challenge, it’s actually an opportunity to examine our hearts to see where we really are putting our confidence. And whether we were putting our confidence in people or in a church or in a denomination or in a situation, or whether our confidence was indeed in the Lord.

I think of a woman . . . I tell her story in the book. Her name is Belinda, and she was in a terrible accident and ended up with her mouth drooling, paralyzed on one side of her body, and her whole face disfigured. And she told me, 

Before the accident, I would have said that I was putting my confidence in the Lord. But going through that accident really revealed to me that I was putting my confidence in my own appearance. I was putting my confidence in how people viewed me. I was putting my confidence in all sorts of other things.

And she had gotten to the point . . . and of course that was a struggle; it was very, very difficult for her. She had gotten to the point where she was just radiating and said to me, 

Now I can see that when all the props are ripped down, I can still put my confidence in God, and He will not let me down. He will never ever leave me, never ever forsake me. And I can draw my strength from the truth of who He says I am—not from my appearance, not from how others affirm me—but from who God says I am.

Dannah: I can testify that that’s true. Bob and I have talked a few times, not often, publicly about some challenges we’ve faced in our marriage. I think both of us would have said, before we went through that time, “I have confidence in the Lord.”

And then when things fell apart for us—not that our marriage was falling apart, but there was so much pain, so much stuff that we needed to work through, so many counselors, so many pastoral advisors—that I realized that I had a lot of confidence in Bob that belonged in the Jesus category. I was giving to my husband some of the things. I trusted in him to provide. I trusted in him to solve problems. I trusted in him to calm my heart.

And it’s not bad for your husband to do those things.

Mary: No. Those are good things.

Dannah: But the Lord let me see that in some ways, Bob had become the spider web I leaned up against. And Bob is a man. He’s fallible. I have to first and foremost be leaning on Jesus. He is my confidence.

And Bob discovered the same thing, that he needed to lean less on me for some of the things he needed to be looking to God for.

And so those times when it all falls apart are opportunities for us to see where we need to redirect our confidence so that the source really is God.

Mary: Absolutely. The Bible’s code for confidence is based on where I actually place my trust and not on my emotions. So it doesn’t matter how bold I feel or how fearful I feel because it’s scary—life is scary in many different ways and at many different times—so I can possess all of the positive energy and confidence in the world. But if my trust is misplaced, then that confidence is foolish and fragile.

But even if I’m afraid, and even if my emotions are rocked and my ship is being rocked by being let down or having that spider’s web fall, I can still choose to embrace smart confidence, strong confidence by putting my confidence in the Lord.

The psalmist said, “When I am afraid, I will trust in You.” Psalm 56:3.

So your situation, Dannah, in going through your challenge with Bob, and I think many women are going through challenges that right now they do feel afraid, and they feel fearful, and they feel as though everything in which they have put their confidence has let them down and that they’re falling. Well, I would encourage those women today to just say, “Lord, when I am afraid, when I don’t feel confident, that is an opportunity, and that is when I will choose to put my trust in You.”

Dannah: You have brought up a very important topic: when I am afraid. Confidence isn’t the lack of fear. But, Mary, we don’t have enough time to talk about fear right now. So could you come hang out again tomorrow to talk about this whole idea of living in confidence even when we’re afraid?

Mary: Absolutely. I’ll see you tomorrow.

Nancy: That’s Dannah Gresh. She’s been talking about some really important reminders from God’s Word with our dear friend Mary Kassian.

Mary’s new book is called, The Right Kind of Confident. The subtitle is: The Remarkable Grit of a God-Fearing Woman.

I love that! And how we need more God-fearing women who have that kind of remarkable grit.

We’d like to send you a copy of this book. So this week, when you contact us to make a donation of any amount, we want to say “thank you” by sending you this book. Just ask for Mary’s book, The Right Kind of Confident, when you make your donation.

To give, go to ReviveOurHearts.com, or call us at 1–800–569–5959. Thank you so much for your support. We need your financial help and your prayers more than you can imagine.

So, how can you tell if you’re God-fearing or just plain sinfully fearful? Mary and Dannah will talk about that when they continue this conversation tomorrow on Revive Our Hearts.

Pointing you to true confidence, this is Revive Our Hearts with Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth, calling you to freedom, fullness, and fruitfulness in Christ. 

*Offers available only during the broadcast of the podcast season.