We Will Rise Up

Dannah Gresh: When you face suffering, you might be tempted to doubt God’s protection. Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth provides perspective.

Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth: You say, “Well, He didn’t rescue me from that!” But you don’t have the end of the story yet. When we can look back on all of this life, we will say, “Yes, it’s true. ‘Many are the adversities of the righteous, but the Lord rescued me from them all.” (see Psalm 34:19 CSB)

Dannah: This is the Revive Our Hearts podcast with Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth, author of Heaven Rules, for September 26, 2022. I’m Dannah Gresh.

For several weeks Nancy has been leading us through a study of the book of Daniel called Heaven Rules. Today we come to the end of that series and we’ll hear from several women who have been impacted by Nancy’s teaching. And Nancy’s husband, Robert, just might make a comment, too! Here’s Melinda.

Melinda: I liked how you pointed out how faithful Daniel was and how God worked through him. I think that’s what’s important, that Daniel stayed true to the Lord. Then I liked seeing Daniel being human, that he was weak after learning this. He admitted, “I am weak,” and he needed the Lord to come alongside of him and give him strength to move forward and how he did that.

And I liked how you said, “What did Daniel do next? He did the next thing.” He walked in faith and served the Lord.

Nancy: Yes. In a pagan king’s palace he went back to work, knowing that that wasn’t where he was going to work forever. God’s servants will serve Him at that throne. So wherever we’re serving God today—hard as that may be—it’s not where we’re going to serve forever. Our faithfulness as we serve here is going to be rewarded when we get to that throne, but this here is not forever.

We get so bent out of shape frequently because we think that what is here and now is forever and that it’s supreme. Sometimes that’s not to diminish how weighty sinful acts of humans can be when they affect our lives. I’m not saying that sinful thing or person that came against you just blow it off, it doesn’t matter.

I do like that Daniel felt the weight of it. He was weakened by it all, and we are weakened by sin and sinful people and leaders and atrocities and assaults. But what gives us the ability to come up and breathe and be hopeful people? We’re the holy ones of God. We have hope; there’s triumph coming. Evil will not win.

God is making a new Heaven and a new earth for His people, His holy people. So let’s not forget to keep in that space in our heads, even while we’re in this space living down here on earth—hard as it is at times.

Joy: When you were talking, “Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens . . .” (Dan. 12:3 NIV) I love that, because we’re living in such a dark, dark time—after Covid and all of that. How we can be lights? We can have that sakal (did I say it correctly?), and we are called to be that.

I’m in a different phase of life, heading into empty nesting. I love what you said: “Keep on keeping on!”

Nancy: You know, we feel so many times like the world system with everything that’s wrong with it is extinguishing our light. There are laws, there are regulations, there are restrictions, that make it harder for Christians. And if that’s true in the United States, that’s even way more true in other parts of the world.

What do the believers in Iran do? What do the believers in Pakistan do? The believers in India, people in Muslim parts of the world where many are being literally persecuted for their faith? How can they be a light? Does this passage apply to them?

Well, we know that it does. Those are who are wise, those who have insight, those who are true believers, those who are sakal (I don’t know if I’m saying that right or not). That’s the word that’s used over and over again in Daniel: they will shine as lights, as stars!

Sometimes it’s through their death, sometimes it’s through their suffering, sometimes it’s through their imprisonment. Sometimes it’s through how we respond to things in our world that are upside-down and topsy-turvy and not as they should be.

Now, if we respond just like the whole rest of the world does to those hard things and places, that’s what snuffs out our light. The world can’t snuff out the light of true believers, because it’s the light of Christ!

So we snuff it out if we say, “We’re just going to follow suit and respond the way the whole rest of the world does.” But when they see a believer suffering and having grief and sorrow and change, and reacting to circumstances and not ranting and not raging but being full of wisdom and full of the Spirit of God and shining and reflecting the light of Christ, that’s powerful! And that’s what we need!

We tend to think, as Christians, what we need is for our world to change. Listen, this world is not going to change—except to get worse—until Jesus comes back! So we fool ourselves, we kid ourselves. We set ourselves up for unmet expectations when we think, Oh, if we could just vote this person in, if we could just elect that person, if we could just change that law” Now, I think as part of being good citizens that those are things we ought to do. But we don’t put our hope in those things.

Daniel didn’t put his hope in Nebuchadnezzar coming back to his senses or in the king rolling back the edict against praying. His hope was in God, and he said, “I’m going to serve God!” That’s what the Hebrew young men said [to King Nebuchadnezzar], “God can rescue us, but even if He doesn’t, we will not worship your image!”

That’s the courage and the faith and the light that the world needs to see in Christians today—not our ranting and our raging about everything that’s wrong. I’m not saying we don’t point things out or we don’t try and explain what is wrong with sin and that sin is sin. 

There are prophets needed to say, “This is what the Word of God says,” and to be bold and courageous in that. But if our knee-jerk reaction is to rail against kings and governors and princes and presidents and congress and supreme courts and judges and all of this, we’re forfeiting the opportunity God is wanting to give us to shine the light of the gospel in dark places.

Otherwise, why doesn’t God just save us and then have somebody just shoot us and get us out of our misery!? Or we just hole up in our homes and hang on tight ’til the Rapture? No, God has left us here for a purpose. 

They who have insight, those who are wise, will shine! Jesus said that you are the light of the world. You don’t need a light unless there’s darkness, right? In a room that’s full of daylight, you don’t need a light. But in a room that’s pitch black dark, you need light.

And this world is pitch black dark. And God is setting us as His children, His people, to be full of wisdom, to be full of insight, to have understanding, to have sakal, to be the light in that dark place.

Kim: To go with that, back when you were talking in Daniel 3:4–5, when Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were thrown into the fire‑but there were four men in there. That’s the same with us. When we’re thrown into the fire, we’re not alone!

You said He hasn’t promised to rescue us, but He has promised to sustain us. And then you said today, again, in chapter 12, verse 12, “Blessed is the one who waits.” We’re to wait on the Lord. He will sustain us. He will be with us no matter what He allows in our lives. Through the fire and through the hard, He will sustain us, and He’ll be with us.

Nancy: “Emmanuel: God with us”—in the fire. In the fire, and He delivers! I just started noticing this as I was reading again through Daniel how many references there are in Daniel to rescue, escape, deliverance.

It doesn’t mean He doesn’t let you go into the fire or into the lion’s den, but in time, God will rescue! I’m thinking of that verse, “One who is righteous has many adversities” (Ps. 34:19 CSB). I’d say Daniel and his friends had many adversities. And if you’ve lived long enough to have many adversities, let me just see you nod your head.

Okay, a lot of people in this room. “One who is righteous . . .” I thought righteous people weren’t supposed to have adversities! No, righteous people do have many adversities. “. . . but the Lord rescues him from them all.” 

You say, “Well, He didn’t rescue me from that!” But you don’t have the end of the story yet. You haven’t gotten to the end. You see, we just see what’s in the moment. You say, “He didn’t rescue me from that. He didn’t let my child live. He didn’t let me keep my jo., He didn’t keep me from getting cancer. He let my mate die of cancer. He didn’t rescue me or him from that!”

The Scripture [in Psalm 34:19–20] says the Lord rescues him from them all. There’s some sense in which when we can look back on all of this life, we will say, “Yes, it’s true. ‘Many [were] the adversities of the righteous, but the Lord rescued [him, the Lord rescued us, the Lord rescued me] from them all.’” 

And then look at verse 20: “He protects all his bones; not one of them is broken.” That’s a messianic prophecy of Christ on the cross—not one of His bones is broken. But doesn’t it also remind you of Daniel 3:27 when the men came out of the fire?

The king’s advisers gathered around them, “They saw that the fire had no effect on the bodies of these men: not a hair of their heads was singed, their robes were unaffected, and there was no smell of fire on them.”

Have you ever been around fire? You don’t ever get rid of the smell! But no smell. “Not one of His bones is broken.” The Lord rescues! We have such a short view. We need to look at the long view and say at the end the Lord rescues—or redeems—His servants from every adversity. 

Psalm chapter 16:9–11: “Therefore my heart is glad and my whole being rejoices; my body also rests securely [another prophetic passage about Christ]. For you will not abandon me to Sheol [the place of death]; you will not allow your faithful one to see decay.” Well, bodies go into the ground and they decay, right? 

This is a prophecy of the resurrection, the body going down into the ground, that is not forever. That is for a short time. You say, “Well, I’ve been through some cemeteries and there are stones from the 1700s.”

That’s not long, in light of eternity. “You will not abandon me to death; you will not allow your faithful one to see decay. You reveal the path of life to me; in your presence is abundant joy; at your right hand are eternal pleasures” (Psalm 16:10–11).

You see, our sadness and our moaning and our complaining at times stems, sometimes, from the fact that we’re just taking such a short view rather than having the long view. Now, saying that, I told you some stories in this series about people who are in tears.

I’m looking at Joette and Janine . . . you just buried your mom. That was a long, hard journey, and you’re still in it! It’s hard. There are tears, and that’s okay. But remember, the tears will be wiped away. 

Death is not forever, death does not have the final say. Christ has the final say and your mom’s body will be raised in the last day. She’s resting now, her body is resting in the ground. But she will rise, and she will receive her reward—yes, eternal pleasures forevermore. Does it get any better than that? In His presence? I mean, what don’t we have if we have that, if we have Him. Anybody else? Honey?

Robert Wolgemuth: Yes. My name is Robert, I’m in the back row. (laughter) You’ve become an amazing baseball fan over these last few years, even more so now than I am! And you’ve used the expression “wheelhouse.” That’s a baseball expression. 

Bible teaching is your wheelhouse, and I’m so grateful for your fidelity to that and not being distracted, because you’re inundated constantly with people saying, “Why don’t you talk about this?” and “Why don’t you talk about this?” and “Chase this rabbit and chase that rabbit.”

And you’ve said, “That’s okay for other folks, but I’m a Bible teacher.” So, I’m deeply grateful for that!”

Nancy: Thank you, Honey. What I love is that the Word speaks to all of life! There are things we’ve studied in this series that haven’t happened yet. The news is old, tonight’s news is old. I am a bit of a news junkie. We love watching and listening to news, particularly about certain topics. We love knowing what’s going on. 

I found during this Daniel series it’s been less interesting to me, since I’ve been soaking in the book of Daniel, because I’m getting the bigger picture of what’s going on behind the scenes, what’s going on behind these nations that seem so powerful.

When I studied that passage about the demonic powers that have influence over the kings of Persia and the kings of Greece and the battle going on in the heavenlies, I’m going, “There is nobody talking on the news tonight who gets that!” They have no concept; they’re clueless. All they can do is tell you what they can see. 

But God lifted the curtain of Heaven a little bit in the book of Daniel and other places in Scripture. He gives us a little glimpse—not much, but enough that we know what’s happening. And it causes us to have a whole different perspective and a whole different response to the macro, the big picture of what’s going on in the world, and to the micro, the picture of what’s going on in my life. The micro may feel very macro, but in the scheme of the whole world, it doesn’t seem that big to everybody else. It’s big to me, it’s big to you.

But no matter whether it’s the world or my world, the fact that Heaven rules has amazing implications. It gives us courage and faith and hope and peace, calm, confidence.

I find myself (maybe you do this too) sometimes watching the news, and I just want to yell at the guy and say, “Don’t you get this!? No, that’s not true!” But it doesn’t really do any good to yell at that guy because he can’t hear me, and if he could, he doesn’t really care what I think. And it doesn’t really matter what I think.

We’re petty, and so we line up conservative, liberal and parties, and I think we sometimes miss the wisdom, the insight, the sakal of being students of God’s Word where we say, “What does that have to do with what’s going on in our world?”

During the pandemic and the early days, nobody knew any more than anybody else. Some people were acting like they knew more, but nobody really did. Nobody had any idea how long, what will be the outcome of all this be. It is the same questions that were asked in Daniel’s day. 

But I remember asking in the early days, “Who’s talking about what is Heaven’s perspective on all of this? What is Heaven thinking?” Now I’m not going to give any pat answers on that, and we have to be careful not to sound like we know things that only God knows. We don’t know God’s mind. It’s mystery. That’s why He said to Daniel, “Seal up this book until the end.” (see Dan. 12:4)

But He gives us glimpses of things, and we need to be thinking that way‑what is happening in the unseen realm, what is happening in the heavenlies, what is happening in God’s great big span of redemptive history that goes from Genesis 1 to Revelation 22 and how does this fit into that? It does.

We’ve got to spend more time in the Bible than we do listening to podcasts and checking out the news. We’ve got to soak in this Book if we’re going to be people of wisdom who shine in the darkness!

Linda: In Daniel 11 you had said, “God intends to bless the world through us.” And then in Daniel 12, you were talking about how Daniel from his teens into his eighties was a captive. He served with integrity; he didn’t wallow in his self-pity. He was not a victim. He served. He was faithful to God’s Word. He served those who held him captive with integrity and for their good.

You made a comment, “The king sought him out.” And I thought, What a challenge! Everyone of us has our own set of trials, and it’s a challenge to keep my mind focused on God’s Word and to respond to whatever the trial is in a God-honoring way.

I do want to thank Revive Our Hearts and you for providing us with such rich resources which really encourage me to stay focused on God’s Word and just providing the guidance. I love the resources! Thank you so much!

Nancy: Praise the Lord. I’m so thankful for our team that does that. One thing I love about this concept—I mean, the Word is timeless over and over and over again, it never gets old—but I’ve been thinking about this Heaven rules thing and the book of Daniel which is so old! It’s an ancient book. But I’ve been thinking how it is always modern. It’s always contemporary. It’s always needed. I mean, when is there an era of the world that we don’t need this Heaven rules message? When is there an era of the world that these prophecies can’t help encourage us to be faithful where God has put us?

When is there an era in all of human history—past, present or future—that doesn’t need examples like Daniel and the reminders that we get from this study? So, I get the joy of soaking in this for months leading up to a series like this and then weeks preparing to teach it and the joy of sharing what God is teaching me. But it’s still fresh, it’s still new, it’s still very precious and very needed in our day. Okay, Elizabeth.

Elizabeth: In Sunday School, we’ve been studying Matthew. In Matthew Jesus says, “It’s not my time yet.” It reminded me today when it wasn’t Daniel’s time yet. And we don’t know when our time is.

Nancy: Yes, those two words “time” and “end” keep coming up through the book of Daniel. We know we’re in this time, but God keeps saying, “At that time.” “At the appointed time.” “At the time of the end.” We don’t know when that is.

So here’s Daniel at eighty-six (we think) in the last part of the book of Daniel . . . You think, That guy, maybe he could be just sitting out for a while waiting for the end. No, Daniel says to them, “Keep going. Keep going, keep being faithful.” Now, at eighty-six, most of us may not be able to do what we are doing today. 

But God didn’t call us then to do what He’s called us to do now. And He doesn’t call us to do now what He called us to do when we were twenty years younger. He has different things for different seasons for different times, which is why we need to have sakal, to be sakal—men and women to have insight and wisdom to know what to do, to know what God is calling us to.

I think of Corrie ten Boom who for the last five years of her life could not speak a word. She had a massive stroke. There’s been a book written called The Five Silent Years—a book!—that was written by her caregiver who was there and knew.

And people would come to see Corrie ten Boom, they would come into that bedroom. Corrie never left that bedroom. (I don’t know that she never left, but she was there all the time) People would come and even though she couldn’t speak a word, they said that being with her took them to the presence of God and their lives were impacted and they were changed. There was a ministry of silence for five years!

I love to teach the Word of God. There may be years of my life when I can’t do that for whatever reason. So then, by God’s grace, I’ll do what He gives me grace and strength and wisdom to do then. But don’t stop! 

Don’t stop until the end, and then in the end you will rest, and then you will rise, and then you will be rewarded. And by the way, don’t expect the reward now, because if you do, you’re going to get mad! Because you’re going to do a lot of things that nobody notices, nobody cares about, nobody pays attention to, and you don’t think they matter.

If you’re doing what God put you here to do in this season, it does matter. And in His timing, at the end, you will receive the allotted inheritance for faithfulness!

I’ve got to show you one more thing . . . I didn’t have time to include it here, and I don’t know if I can explain it well, but I’m going to try—Daniel chapter 12. I just saw this in the last couple of days, and I love it. 

The first verse and the last verse of Daniel chapter 12 form a bookend I never noticed until just recently. We talked about the first verse: “At that time Michael, the great prince who stands watch over your people, will rise up.” (Dan. 12:1 CSB)

Now that phrase, “stands watch,” in the Hebrew is the same word as “rise up.” And different translations capture this a little differently, but it’s the same word, amad. Michael the great prince who stands, he rises, he protects, he watches over “. . . your people [the people of Israel], he stands watch, he will rise up.” It’s the same word, “he will stand up.”

This is like a picture of a sentry or a guard. He’s not sleeping on the job. His job is to protect, and so he rises up in defense of God’s people. It’s a mighty warrior. We can’t picture what Michael or any of these angels must have looked like. But don’t think of the strongest man you know, with big muscles and whatever, these angels are terrifying creatures! We think there must be something about them, either how large they are or how glorious they are or something just routinely through Scripture causes people to fall on their faces, to be terrified, to be in dread, to be in fear.

So this is not just like, “Oh, a man named Michael came by and he rose up.” No, this is a mighty warrior of God, the archangel!—the top of the top angels. He stands watch. He will rise up in the time of distress.

Now, move to the last verse of chapter 12: “But as for you, go on your way to the end; you will rest, and then you will rise [“stand”—it’s the same word] to receive your allotted inheritance at the end of the days” (12:13 CSB).

So there’s this time of distress, and God sends His mighty angel Michael to stand watch, to rise up on behalf of His people who are about to get wiped out—and that’s in the Great Tribulation—but then He takes us all the way to the end: “At the end . . . you will rest, and then you will rise [you will stand] . . .” It’s the same word used three times in this chapter, twice in the first verse, once in verse 13.

“Then you will [stand] . . .” It’s not just angels who will stand and rise up and stand watch and be these mighty helpers that we have in our weakness and in our need and in our distress. But the beauty of it is that the day will come that we as the people of God will rise, we will stand. The angels of God have helped us to stand; they have helped us to rise. They have risen up on our behalf and on behalf of the One who stands up for us and is our Keeper and watches over us.

They reflect Christ to us. They reflect the heart of God to us. God stands up for us, watches over us. God arises to our help and sends His angels to arise to our help. But one day in Heaven, we stand up! We rise—not in our own strength—but as testimonies, trophies to the power of Christ who stood up for us, who sent His angels to stand up for us. And now, in His presence we rise!

And He says, “And now, receive the inheritance prepared for you by your Father from eternity past!” I mean, does it get any better than that? Amen!

Dannah: Amen! No, it can’t get any better than that. Did you find that as encouraging as I did? The world seems so messed up; maybe even your family life seems messed up. But you can rest in knowing God is in control.

He has a plan and, ultimately, for those who are in Christ, He will make all things right. Did you catch the key part of that? “For those who are in Christ.” Heaven rules over all things, but it won’t get any better for you if you’re not a child of God.

If you’re not sure where you stand or if you’d like to learn how you can be right with God, we’d love to send you a book by Erwin Lutzer. It’s titled How You Can Be Sure You Will Spend Eternity With God. Just go to our website ReviveOurHearts.com, and we’ll have a link for you in the transcript of this program. Let me just pray for you right now, if you don’t mind.

Nancy: Lord, our only hope is You! Our only hope is having You rule and reign first in our hearts and in our lives, because that is where we get the beautiful blessing of experiencing the way that You rule and reign in the things around us.

Father, I pray for my sister who’s listening right now who isn’t sure if she’ll spend eternity with You. Would You reach into her heart, into her mind, and let this be the day that she senses You drawing her to yourself? I pray that You get this resource in her hands, Lord, that You help her find her way into the family of God. And if it’s not this resource, Lord, give her someone in her neighborhood, in her church, in her family that would guide her through the process of having certainty that she is Your own and that You are reigning and ruling in her heart. In the precious Name of our Lord and Savior Jesus, I pray this, amen.

Well, sister, if you’re just joining us and what you heard today really ministered to your heart—and I hope it did—but you missed a lot of this series, I want you to know that you can go to ReviveOurHearts.com to hear the other episodes if you want to catch up on them.

And if you want a book that will help you understand these truths, Nancy’s new book Heaven Rules is the perfect choice. We’d love to send it to you when you give a gift today. Again, the website is ReviveOurHearts.com, or if you’d rather phone, call 1-800-569-5959.

Now, have you ever wondered exactly how you should think about food? Hmmm, it’s a struggle for many of us, isn’t it? Tomorrow, my dear friend Erin Davis will help us see food as a good gift from our loving Father. I hope you’ll be back for Revive Our Hearts.

Revive Our Hearts with Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth is calling you to rise up into freedom, fullness, and fruitfulness in Christ.

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