Angry? Me?, with Shannon Popkin

From our roads to our screens to our living rooms, anger is on the rise. Join us, along with guest Shannon Popkin, as we explore one reason why we're all so angry and look to God’s Word for hope and perspective.

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Control Girl: Lessons on Surrendering Your Burden of Control from Seven Women in the Bible by Shannon Popkin

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Dannah Gresh: How can you know if you have an anger problem? The answer according to Scripture might surprise you. In fact, it might even make you mad. I'm Dannah Gresh, and this is Grounded.

Portia Collins: And I am Portia Collins. Today we are here to give you, you guessed it, hope and perspective. But that doesn't mean that the topics that we tackle are all warm and fuzzy. In this episode, we want to get down to the root of anger.

Dannah: That's right. Erin and I were talking a few weeks ago, and we just were like, “Are you feeling it?” I was feeling it. She was feeling it. And here's why we think this episode is worth listening to and why we decided to craft it for you. 

Now, stick with me. I'm going to take a hard right into a topic that probably is going to feel disconnected. But since the beginning of COVID-19, traffic crashes and deaths have surged. We're not talking a little bit of growth. We're talking hockey stick growth; that's when the curb goes straight up. Now, you might be thinking, How can a global pandemic lead to more automobile crashes? Well, social scientists say, wait for it . . . it's because we're more angry. Can you say road rage?

Portia: Road rage. 

Erin Davis: I’ve seen some of those angry drivers. I've probably been one of those angry drivers. 

Portia: Ditto, ditto. Think about it. There's inflation. If you bought anything lately, you’ve felt the pinch. I know that we have felt the pinch in the Collins household. And so today, we're dedicating our entire show to that topic. Okay, well, not today. Sorry, guys. Next week we're dedicating our entire topic to inflation. But today we're gonna talk about the anger. And again, social scientists say that we are responding to the problem of inflation, everything that’s happening in our world today, with anger.

Erin: People are mad at those gas pumps, I can tell you. People . . . it's actually me, it's me. 

Portia: I'm mad at the gas pump.

Dannah: You should have heard me when I saw the total on my grocery bill on Saturday.

Portia: Ditto.

Dannah: Okay. Now based on these two factoids, you might think this doesn't apply you. You haven’t experienced road rage recently, or you haven't thrown a big fit at the grocery store. But that's exactly why anger is so sneaky. You can't tell if you're angry based on how often you blow your top. 

For most of us, I'm a good example. It's more of a low-level everyday anger that we need the Lord to come and help us deal with right now. In fact, just a few weeks ago, I woke up and I thought to myself, I just feel, huh, what is it? I just couldn't identify it. And then I was like, I think it's anger. I'm angry, not explosive angry, but life is just not right angry. 

And there's been no time in my personal life where I've had more hard conversations. I've had complicated conversations with my friends, with coworkers, even with family. None of us is blowing our top. You wouldn't look at us and say, “They're mad.” But I think we are all a little mad about something, and we're just looking for places to express it. 

So, things that would have been little in the past and didn't bother us have just gotten big. We're having tough conversations as a result.

Portia: Absolutely. I feel that Dannah, I really feel that. 

Well, this morning we have Shannon Popkin with us. I love Shannon, and she is going to help us explore how anger and, get this, our craving for control are actually connected.

Erin: My toes just curled up when you said that Portia, because they’re gonna get stepped on. Yikes. 

Dannah: I feel it. I'm already feeling that conviction. Bring it, Lord. Erin Davis, of course, is with us to get grounded in God's Word today. I cannot wait for her to share with you what she shared with me a few weeks ago, a very personal confession about her own anger. And Robyn and Ray McKelvy are stopping by to talk about four ways to handle anger with the person you're closest to, your spouse.

Erin: Yikes. 

Dannah: Yeah, you might want to share this episode if you know somebody who needs it. Be careful about how you do that though. 

Erin: You might want to share this if you have an anger problem.

Portia: Right? You don't want to make them angry. Okay. 

Well, I can already tell that this is going to be a fantastic episode. Okay. It's going to be note-taking episode. So guess what? Portia has her notepad and her marker because I couldn't find a pen. But hey, we're gonna make it work. Because I expect to learn a lot. And I am going to take notes as always, and I am going to share this episode. In fact, I've already been sharing it. And would you guys do it too? 

So, share the episode. We want to hit everybody. Right? Not just with the woman that you know has an anger problem. All right. But I think that the things we're going to cover today, it's applicable for all of us. Okay, but first, guess what we need? We need Erin to give us some good news.

Good News for Tweens

Erin: I'm ready. I love it when I get to be the bearer of the good news. I love this good news segment. It is going to put some pep in your step, I promise. But it's not all good news. You know, before we can see the silver lining, we often have to see the cloud. I need you to listen to this headline Since COVID. Students Are Angry. How Can Teachers Help? I would just affirm that my treasured sister-in-law is an elementary school principal. She said they are seeing issues like they've never seen before in her long tenure in education. 

Teachers are angry; parents are angry; children are angry. And a lot is falling on our teachers and principals, isn't it? But the fear, the grief, the anxiety that our children are feeling has resulted in increased violence and bullying in schools. It's a trend that was magnified by the pandemic. And some have been sounding the alarm since 2019. 

So, this is not new news. But the emotional wellness of tweens, I have one of those, and teens, I have one of those. Well, if the term is emotional wellness, our teens and tweens are not well at all. The average tween scores so high on anxiety scores right now, if it were the 1960s, that child would be placed in an institution for treatment. That's how much anxiety they're feeling. And that's bound to come out. Right? It's like pushing on a balloon. And that often comes out in the form of anger. But parents and educators are just considering it normal. We've normalized having anxious, angry kids. We tell them to go on with life. 

Well, I told you I was gonna give you good news. You might not know this, but in addition to hosting Grounded and cohosting the Revive Our Hearts podcast, our own Dannah Gresh leads a ministry for tween girls and their mamas called True Girl. Now, y'all know I don't have any girls. But I am a huge fan of this ministry. And back in the day, way back in the day, before I even had any kids of my own, I used to travel with this ministry. 

And so, the heartbeat of True Girl is to introduce girls to Jesus and teach them to study God's Word, which we can all celebrate. I'm happy to say that this is a bit of good news after two years, thanks COVID-19, Dannah’s tour bus is back on the road with a True Girl Pajama Party. 

I have some friends who went. They sent me photos. They loved it. God worked in the little girl's heart. In fact, this photo that you're looking at is from last week when the True Girl team stopped by the Revive Our Hearts headquarters for a day of discipleship and encouragement before they head out on the road. I am so excited to say that the tour bus is coming to the Davis farm in a couple of weeks so that I get to love on that team. 

I'm going to just cook everything I can find for them because I want to bless them. So, we asked some of the members of the tour team to be our good news correspondents this morning. Welcome the True Girl worship team. Hey girls, how are ya? 

True Girl Team: Hey Erin, thanks for having us. We are so excited to be here.

Erin: You’re going to have to bring me one of those shirts when you come to the farm. I need one of those shirts.

True Girl Team: Will do, absolutely.

Erin: Hey, Jed, be our True Girl correspondent. Bring us into the room of a True Girl event. What happens in one of those events? 

Jed: Well, we have live worship, crazy mom and daughter games, and dance party with confetti. Our main goal is to share the gospel through deep Bible teaching, intimate conversation time, and more. Over 12,000 Girls have made a first-time decision to follow Jesus with their mom by their side at these events.

Erin: That's worth some confetti—12,000 girls giving their life to Jesus through this ministry, that makes me wanna have a dance party right now! I’ll do the macarena. Okay. That's awesome. But there's more good news. 

Hilsey, how does this specific tour, the pajama party tour, help girls who might be feeling angry, anxious, or fearful, because we just said there's an issue there. How are you guys tackling it?

Hilsey: Well, it's based on the book Lies Young Girls Believe and the Truth That Sets Them Free, which is written by Dannah, and as part of the series started by Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth. And really, it just teaches these girls that sometimes our emotions and our anger, they're proof that we are believing lies internally. It teaches them how to replace all of those lies with the truth of God's Word. But to know the truth of God's Word, they gotta be in God's Word. 

So, the True Girl tour, yeah, it's just basically a staged version of this book. And really, our heart's desire is to help them know what to do with the anger, the fear, the anxiety, the loneliness, the body image, all that stuff, turn it on its head, and replace it with the truth of what God says.

Erin: Oh, man, I'm having to learn some of those lessons at 41. I can't imagine what God could do if I'd learned it at about eight, nine or 10. So, I love that you're sharing; that sounds exactly what girls need . . . and boys. 

By the way, Hepzi, is it working? I got to hear a great story from what you're seeing in the lives of girls.

Hepzi: Yes, it really, really is. Our girls are going straight to the Word of God to deal with their emotions, which is the purpose of everything that we do. And a little tip is, generally our anger is masking sadness. So, younger girls tend to be more aware of that sadness. 

So, we hear a lot more sadness stories, and they are learning to go to the Bible to God's Word with these emotions and just deal with them. They're writing to tell us all about it. We call their little letters, Freedom Stories. I actually brought one for you guys today, and I want to read it.

This is a girl that knows how affected she has been by the headlines. She's aware of that. 

So, this is what she writes. “I am sad and lonely. My mom showed me Matthew 28:20 and reminded me that God is always with me, no matter where I am, or how old I am. This Scripture reminds me that I am actually never alone. God is a friend who is always with me. I am with you always, even to the end of age, which is Matthew 28:20.” And this is written by Sophia, and she is 10 years old.

Erin: Ten-year-old Sophie is getting free. I love that. That is definitely some good news. Now, I'm not the mama to any tween girls, but I sure do love a lot of tween girls. I would love to take a whole bus full of them to the pajama party tour. Hilsey, see how can we find out which cities you're going to be in when you're going to be there? I know you're coming close to me pretty soon. Where do we get the scoop?

Hilsey: Yeah, we are. you can go to MyTrueGirl.com. You can see all the lists of all the cities locations that will be traveling for the next month and a half.

Hepzi: Yeah, and if you live in Latin America, we have a whole team that works down there. We are actually planning a tour to Mexico so you want to check that out. 

Erin: I might want to come to that tour. That sounds like it's warm. When you go here you might still not get warm weather. But you will get to see the arch which is pretty cool.

Well, how can you be angry with role models like this making a difference in the world? I celebrate you girls. I celebrate the way you're serving Jesus and grabbing girls’ hearts. The True Girl teams out there are making a difference. Nothing to be mad about here. In fact, we think that is some pretty good news. Thank you True Girl team. 

True Girl Team: Thank you.

Dannah: Oh ,wow! I'm pretty proud of those girls. Aren't they amazing? 

Erin: I do love them.

Dannah: Yeah. Amazing. I'm so excited. Next week I'm flying out. I'm going to be joining them in Tulsa, Oklahoma and then the St. Louis, Missouri, partly so I can come see you, Erin Davis. That's why I picked that leg. Hey, listen. Check out MyTrueGirl.com, and you don't find we're coming to a city, don't worry, we come right to your living room. 

I have on my desk here a copy of Miriam: Becoming a Girl of Courage because our online Bible Study of the spring season starts tonight you can find out more about that at MyTrueGirl.com. We feel like courage is definitely something girls need, but not the kind the world tells us to have, the kind that's inside of us. That's what they're always telling us in the world. Because courage according to the Bible is more about obedience. And so, we're gonna teach them about standing in truth in that Bible study. Check it out at MyTrueGirl.com.

Are You Angry?: Interview with Shannon Popkin

But right now it's time to spend some time with more great people. We're going to get grounded with God's people. Shannon Popkin is with us. She's the author of Control Girl, a book which we think could help you overcome anger if you're having a problem with it. Good morning, Shannon. How are you today?

Shannon Popkin: Hi, Dannah. It's so great to be with you. 

Dannah: I am always thrilled to have you. You are one of our favorite names around the Revive Our Hearts headquarters. Hey, listen, I'm going to go straight to the point. I heard a rumor that bats make you angry, Shannon. I want to know is that true?

Shannon: I don't like bats. Do you like bats, Dannah? I don't know if anybody likes them. 

Dannah: I like all of God's creatures. 

Shannon: Well, okay, but bats? I don't know, they do not have a really warm place in my heart. One day we were walking into our family room, and there was this bat stuck in between the slider and the screen door facing us. It looked horrifying. 

My kids were little. I shooed them out of the room. I told my husband, “Go take care of that bat.” So, the next day, we're sitting on the deck, and the kid are playing in the yard. And I said to him, “Hey, what'd you do with that bat?” 

And he said, “Oh, I just scooped it off into the yard.” 

And I said, “And then what did you do?” 

And he said, “I just let it go.” 

At that moment, our toddler out in the yard leaned over to pick something up, and I just went ballistic. I swooped into the yard. I'm like, “Get into the house.” I just kind of went crazy. I'm in the kitchen scrubbing their little fingers and their mouths and my husband kind of . . .

Dannah: Had they touched the bat?

Shannon: I don't believe . . . I was freaking out. And when my husband came in, I'm like, “Did you find it? You know, did you find the bat?” 

And he's like, “Shannon, the bat flew away.” 

And I'm like, “Dude, get back out there.” Not one of my finer moments, I'm sure you know, my eyes are bulging. And I'm like, “Go find that bat.” I'm sure I didn't look very beautiful. 

Dannah: With moments like that, I am so thankful. Someday you'll have to ask me about my meatloaf moment. It's very similar. But what did that experience teach you about anger, Shannon?

Shannon: I would love to control everything in my kids’ lives, in my life. I'd love to keep us all safe. I'd love to keep all of the bats away from the yard. And I can't, right? And so, one of the things I always knew that I struggled with was anger. I didn't in those early years, I never tied my surface level struggle with anger that I could see with this underlying struggle that I have with control. 

One of the things that anger has been teaching me over the past decade or so, is to look for this underlying, hidden problem that I have with control. So when anger rises to the surface, it's like I can ask myself, “Okay, Shannon, is there something here that you feel like you're losing control of? Or is there something you're trying to control that is not yours to control?” 

And so that bad situation just showed like, I mean, I can't control all of the bats in the world. And yet, it made me mad that I couldn't control my husband in the way that I wanted. And I couldn't control my kid’s safety.

Dannah: Yeah. Well, if you read any of the articles that I've been reading lately, the headlines will tell you that thesis is well supported. I've been reading that researchers are saying that the underlying issue is that people don't feel in control—anything from masks, vaccines, inflation, war. Everybody has an opinion, but nobody is really in control of what's happening. And that's starting to seep out into our everyday relationships.

Because, you know, you can't exactly pick up your cell phone and teleconference with Putin and Zelensky. But you can tell your brother that you don't agree with him about his position on what's happening in that part of the world. And all that pent up frustration from all those other places comes out suddenly in a family feud. Right? So how important is it that we, as a culture, recognize that our lack of control in those big global and national places is starting to result in an impact in our closer relationships?

Shannon: I think the further removed it is from us, the more out of control we feel of the situation. There are a lot of global things that just are making us feel very, very out of control. 

But I think, actually, this is good for us. Because when we have this facade that we are in control or that we should take control, that's not good for us. God never gives us the impression in the Word that we're the ones who are supposed to be in control or that we're supposed to try to control other people. He repeatedly from the beginning at the Garden of Eden, He put that tree off limits. He wanted them to recognize He is God and we are not, and we're to live in surrender to Him. 

So, I think just when we feel that anger rising, it's another reminder, like, “Hey, we got to go back and remind ourselves who is the one who's actually in control.” I'd love to read a couple of verses, Dannah, in Psalms. 

Dannah: Yeah.

Shannon: These verses are so soothing to me. Psalm 37:7 says,

Be still before the LORD and wait patiently for him;
fret not yourself over the one who prospers in his way,
over the man who carries out evil devices!

Refrain from anger. [there it is.] Refrain from and forsake wrath!
Fret not yourself; it tends only to evil.
For the evildoers shall be cut off,
but those who wait for the LORD shall inherit the land.

I think it's just this: my anger is me trying to play God, me trying to be in control. But if I can, if I can go back and remind myself that there is someone in control, and it's not me, and if I can just wait on Him, that's what soothes this anger. You're exactly right, it has so much potential to damage our relationships.

Dannah: Yeah, that speaks to my heart so much, because from the beginning of this pandemic, I've been feeling like God is reminding me that He is in control, He has always been in control. And that is not only my help. But sometimes that's where my area of weakness is because I forget. I have some friends from the Dominican Republic who always end their plans . . . When they say, “I'm going out for dinner Friday night.” They'll say “Lord willing.” I was always like, what? And now here I am two years into the pandemic, and almost every time I say what my plans are, at the end is Lord willing, because I have learned that God is in control of what this week looks like in my life. 

Okay, so coach me up Shannon and coach all of us up. What do I do in that moment when I'm about to go ballistic on my best friend or relative?

Shannon: I think there are some things you can do in that moment, but I think probably have you have to back up. In the moments leading to that moment, there are some even more helpful things that we can do. 

I think just spending some time with our Bible open and just meditating on the fact that God is in control, like, verses throughout the Bible. I think that has so much to do with when we are confronted with a thing that we cannot control our heart, we need to have a place for our heart to fly to in that moment.

But then in that moment, once we've grounded ourselves, like we're here at Grounded, but once we've grounded ourselves in the truth, I think in that moment, then just asking ourselves, “Wait a minute, is there something I'm trying to control here? Or is there something that I'm feeling out of control, you know, whether you're behind the wheel or cooking dinner, or whatever it is, and you're about to fly into a rage?” You know, your husband who did not bury the bat that you wanted, or whatever the situation is just. Asking, “Okay, is my anger, does it have something to do with this unhealthy desire that I have to be in control to play God?”

I think once I deal with the control issues, it helps to soothe that anger that that is on the surface.

Dannah: Oh, very helpful. Good advice. So, Shannon, the next time your husband takes a bat out of your house, which, let's pray, Lord willing, he doesn't have to, remember this: bats are friends, you can name them. That's from Dannah Gresh. 

But also, whatever you are, it might not be a bat, it might be the way your husband leaves his socks in the middle of the floor. It might be the way your brother brings up politics. Every time you get together right now and you're so tired of it, it might be what you're seeing in the headlines in the news. Maybe just ask yourself, What am I feeling is out of control in my life? And then ask yourself, have I prepared my heart for this minute by being in God's Word? I think that's my takeaway for today. Shannon has reminded us to get into the Word, because that's going to prepare us for those moments so that we handle them differently. Shannon, thank you for being with us this morning. You have been a soothing balm to my heart.

Shannon: It's a blessing. I think if we can just all remember He actually is in control. We can trust that He is in control. We're not but He is.

Dannah: We can trust Him. That's right. For more information on Shannon's book Control Girl: Lessons on Surrendering Your Burden of Control from Seven Women in the Bible, visit her website at ControlGirl.com. Erin . . .

Psalm 51: A Righteous Response to Sin When Our Sin Is Exposed.

Erin: Well, I have an anger problem. And I'm as shocked as you are. I really had no idea that I was an angry woman. You might want to go ahead and reach for your Bible, because maybe you don't have any idea that you are an angry woman, and the Lord's putting His finger on that and your heart today—or in your craving for control, or in your sense of pride, or in something that you've said or done recently. I have to remind myself all the time that when the Lord exposes those things, it's for our good to irrigate the wound. 

If you had asked me six months ago, “Erin, are you an angry woman?” I would say, “No, I'm not an angry woman.” And then I might have said it was a little attitude, frankly. But then I got diagnosed with high blood pressure. And I'm not just talking about a little bit high blood pressure, I'm talking about I sat in a doctor's office, and she looked me in the eye and told me I was not safe, that I could have a stroke at any moment. I mean, really high blood pressure. And then I became very attached to this little guy, some of you might have one of these. It's a blood pressure cuff. And every time I had a spike, which was very often just a few weeks ago, I started pausing to ask the Lord, “What is going on?” 

And every time I had to face the fact that I was angry about something, and that was causing my blood pressure to go up, my face to flush, my head to have a blood pressure headache. And I was shocked at how many times in a day that cycle was happening. Now, most of the time, I'd say 99.9% of the time, I showed zero, outward anger. If you would be sitting with me and I was having a blood pressure spike, I would appear very, very calm. On the outer surface I am not one who's necessarily prone to yelling. I'm not a foot stamper or a door slammer. I'm not one you'll see cuss in a blue streak. But at least, not on a regular basis, I do occasionally lose my cool, but it's rare. 

But on the inside, the Lord has used a true health crisis to expose that I was constantly boiling mad. Now, I don't hardly ever get nervous on Grounded anymore. I get excited that we get to do this. But this morning, I feel a little nervous because this is like my best kept secret. So well-kept that I kept it from myself, that I am an angry woman, and I need the Lord's help. 

So, I was having one of those high blood pressure, blood boiling days, when the Holy Spirit met me at my dining room table. He spoke to me through Psalm 51. That's where I want you to turn to in your Bible right now. This is my journal. From that moment, it really was a revival. And all of these pages are filled with me walking through Psalm 51, in response to the Lord exposing that I am an angry woman. 

Now, I crossed off the heading in my Bible. Don't worry, the headings aren't inspired. But the heading used to say: Create in Me a Clean Heart O God. That's a great thing to pray. But what I've written instead is: A Righteous Response to Sin When Our Sin Is Exposed. How do the righteous respond? 

And I believe that Psalm 51 gives us a path to take to repentance. Now, I can't share the whole psalm with you today. But if this episode has exposed some anger in your heart, or some pride, or the need to control everything, or maybe just the need to control your husband, as Shannon was talking about; then I'm going to encourage you to walk through Psalm 51 when we are done with this episode today. 

Let me read you Psalm 51:1–2: 

Have mercy on me, O God,
according to your steadfast love;
according to your abundant mercy
blot out my transgressions.
Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity,
and cleanse me from my sin!

There you go; there we've got some steps on the path. First, we cry out to God for mercy, have mercy, blot out my transgressions and cleanse me from my sin. 

And let me tell you, when the Holy Spirit gets a hold of you, and calls you to repentance, you're going to want to do that, you're going to want to be free from your sin. And while you do that, you’ve got to remind yourself of who God is. The Psalmist said that He's a God of steadfast love. He's a God of abundant mercy. When we cry out to Him and say, “I am an angry woman.” He will love us and give mercy to us. Keep walking the path, friends.

Psalm 51:3–6, 

For I know my transgressions,
and my sin is ever before me.
Against you, you only, have I sinned
and done what is evil in your sight,
so that you may be justified in your words
and blameless in your judgment.
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Behold, you delight in truth in the inward being,
and you teach me wisdom in the secret heart.

What's that step about? It's about saying that we acknowledge our sin without excuses. I know my transgressions and my sin is ever before me. And you know what happens when anger is the sin? It's too easy to make excuses. He made me angry. I wouldn't be angry if she wasn't so aggravating. Or mama's, these children never let me sleep. I do think it's possible to be angry and not sin, we get that from Ephesians 4:26. But I also know, it is so easy to sin in our anger. 

So, you acknowledge your sin to God without an excuse, with no “they” in your mouth at all. It doesn't matter what they did. This is about our anger in our heart. And then you acknowledge that while your sin may have hurt others, and it probably did, you first offended God. 

Listen to verse 4 again: “Against you, you only have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight.” The next step comes from verse 5, “Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin, my mother conceived me.” It takes me back to all those excuses we make about anger. Here's what I hear a lot. And when I've said, “I was not angry until I became a mom.” Nope. You've always been an angry woman. And God just used your children to expose what existed in your heart. I'm saying you, but it's true of me. Or, I wouldn't be so angry if my husband would just listen to me. Yes, you would. 

It's your nature to be angry about anyone or anything you cannot control. Or maybe you think, That coworker brings out the worst in me. So, you have been a sinner since birth, and so has your coworker. 

This takes me to the final step we're going to talk about today, verse 6, “Behold, you delight in truth in the inward being, you teach me wisdom in the secret heart.”

When it comes to dealing with our anger, and Grounded family, I want to be free of the sin of anger in my life. We've got to get to the heart of it. God desires His Word, His truth, to permeate our inward being, not just our behaviors. God is not in the business of behavior management, about making you a woman who smiles while you are fuming on the inside. 

We work so hard on pruning the outward leaves: we want to stop yelling, stop cussing, stop blowing up at our kids. And listen, that's good. But God wants to change us at the root. My blood pressure is not the problem. My blood pressure is a symptom of the problem. And that is that I am angry. By the way, my blood pressure stabilized I just heard from a cardiologist last week that I was in the safe zone. I was so relieved. It's because I have good doctor care. But it's also because God is doing so much in my life in the area of anger. I know that He wants to do so much in your life in this area too. 

As we wrap up this time in God's Word. There's one thing that convicts me most about my anger, and I can never say anything about it without crying. That is, my anger puts shrapnel into the hearts of the people I love most. My husband, whom I could not adore more, has shrapnel in his heart because I'm an angry woman. My children, who I think about all day and all night, they're walking around with shrapnel in their heart because of my anger. And Portia and Dannah. They have shrapnel in their hearts because of my anger. This is serious. We need the Lord, to deal with our anger problem so that we are not women sending shrapnel into a war-torn world because of our anger. 

So, I pray that the Lord would free me. He is freeing me; he's given me such tremendous victory, and that he would free you if you're an angry woman.

4 Steps to Dealing with Anger in Marriage: Ray & Robyn McKelvey 

Robyn and Ray McKelvy are here with us. I have a feeling they know about the shrapnel that anger can cause. They're going to share four ways to handle your anger when it's directed at your spouse. Robyn and Ray, I got to go get the Kleenex. So you're gonna have to take it from here.

Ray McKelvy: Well, I can tell you, Erin, I as a pastor, I just want to go and grab your hand and pray with you because you've been so transparent and just opened up your heart. We all deal with anger. I'm really surprised, because this is something that men as men we talk about all the time. And I'm gonna be honest with you. I didn't even know that this is a topic that women struggle with. So I know this is in our notes for this morning, but I'm listening to this going, Wow, I thought that was just a man problem. But I'm realizing, Wow, it's a human problem.

Erin: Hey Ray, I don't think we talked about it as women. I think you put your finger on part of the issue. So, I am glad we're talking about it today, and I can't wait to hear what you're going to share with us. 

Ray: Yeah.

Robyn: Well, we're here to say the Bible has tons to say about anger. 

Ray: Well, you know, one of the verses that comes up is Proverbs, chapter 14, verse 29. And it says, “Whoever is slow to anger . . . ” and the NIV uses patient, “Whoever is slow to anger has great understanding, but he who has a hasty temper exalts folly.”

And I realize this, when two people live together, and you've got your quirks, you've got your odd personality, your preferences . . . You've got, leaving your stuff all over the house, or . . . Anyway, we could go on and on after almost 34 years of marriage, we have a lot of things that can just start to irritate you, after a while. 

And so, we want to talk about a few of those things. Ephesians 4:26–27. Erin touched on that. And we know this verse,“Be angry and do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger, and give no opportunity to the devil.” 

Robyn: I think it's important that that the Lord knew, as humans, we will be angry. So He gives a Scripture that tells us be angry. But the part that is very important, as He said, in this relationship, where I want you to show love: be angry, but don't sin. And I think that's the thing that we do. A lot of times as believers, we're not just angry, but we sin. 

But the Bible tells us we are not to sin. And the way to prevent that in a husband-and-wife relationship is to make sure you keep short accounts, and you deal with the anger. I love that the Bible says this because I think this is not my habit, but deal with it before the sun goes down. 

Now, there's been many days I've been in bed, and the sun's been down, and I haven't dealt with my anger. So, I'm sitting up there and losing sleep, because I haven't dealt with my anger. And so, the Bible tells us that because He wants to make sure that the devil can’t intensify this anger and make our righteous anger sin causing it to become our anger just to become sin itself.

Ray: Well, I was thinking, it's really odd that we as Christians don't really apply verses that talk about how we treat each other as believers. We're so busy looking for marriage verses that we don't realize, it tells us to be kinder to each other. And it's not just saying that as believers, but as husbands and wives, and how to deal with anger. So, we want to talk about four ways how to handle anger with the person you're closest with, which is your spouse. So, the first is…

Robyn: Which should be your spouse, if you're married.

Ray: Right. 

Robyn: The first thing is you need to overlook, not everything shouldn't make you angry. When Ray and I first married, he used to clip his toes back and forth just like this. Just clip on, clip on. We're in the bed reading and there are those toes going. And I'm like, “What’s up with those toes? That makes me a little angry. But in light of that used to, but now why it doesn't make me angry anymore. Our son-in-law sent us a video of our grandson, he’s less than two years old, clipping those toes the same way his pops does. It was so cute. If we need to look at things differently. Some things are offenses that make God angry, and that's what should make us angry.

Ray: And we can't control every offense. So, I love that. Overlook, not avoid but overlook things that are small offenses. 

Secondly, identify the emotions behind the emotion. I think anger is and I heard that somewhere I don't remember where, but anger is like the red light on your dashboard saying check the engine. And so, anger is letting you know something else is going on under the hood. What's really happening in there. Are you battling with control? Are you hurt? Are you frustrated? Are you scared? Is there something that’s causing you fear? What's really going on? And I find this a lot. 

Can I tell something on you? 

Robyn: Yes. 

Ray: I mean, I think expectations are really high. I think sometimes as a wife and a mom, you can have unspoken expectations. And when those expectations aren't met, anger is one of the first responses that come. And so, you need to look into what I'm expecting. Have I not even said, “I've maybe not even voiced what's really going on.”

Robyn: And as a result, I do a whole lot more talking now to Ray to let him know that these are some things that are really bothering me. 

And then third, so we have overlook, we have identify, and then third, share your anger burden. Share this with your spouse, don't blame, don't attack, don't ignore, don't avoid, don't just let this stuff go. Because the enemy wants that to happen in your marital relationship.

Ray: And I love the way we've kind of couched this and called this an anger burden. You don't share that alone. Don't keep it to yourself, but you share it with your spouse. This is what's happening. Robyn and I have had a lot of opportunities to practice this. We had all 10 of our kids come home to surprise her for her 60th birthday. We had all seven of our grandchildren with us all in one house. And I can tell you, there were opportunities for anger to be displayed. Robyn and I had a disagreement over a way to handle one of our adult sons. And I can tell you, it surfaced, that anger bubbled up.

Robyn: It didn’t just bubble up. I told him you just have to sometimes just spill it. Because it's so there. Yeah, that he knows something's going on.

Ray: Yeah, and so that's part of that sharing that burden with each other. Some of you, some of us really struggle with keeping things inside. And it just becomes explosive and poisonous after a while. But as husbands and wives, we need to share that we need to speak the truth in love. And as Robyn said, don’t attack, don't blame because that's not helpful. But we share that anger burden with each other.

Robyn: And then final one. So, we don't overlook, we identify what it is we share with our spouse that the Lord has put in our homes, to live together in love. And then finally, we have to forgive. You have to forgive, and you have to forgive quickly. Don't allow yourself to hold on to that anger. 

Ray: Yeah. And as couples and married couples, I think we use anger as a weapon. And when we don't forgive, that's our way of continually using that weapon against one another. So Grounded family. We hope this was helpful. It is something that we've used in our life and so we're going to send it back to Portia, and maybe she can bring it home for us.

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Portia: Absolutely, I can bring it home first of all. I've been over here like I had to pay attention. I was like oh I got to speak because I've been over here like taking notes. Thank you so much for sharing just loads of wisdom. And Robyn, happy 60th, girl! Y’all give Robyn a shout out in the chat. Okay, happy birthday. We love you. You are an amazing woman of God. 

Alright guys, so we are praying that this episode impacts many women. I know that it's like, already impacted y'all and me and hopefully everybody who watches it. And if Grounded has ministered to you at any point, whether it's today or whenever I want you to consider becoming a Revive Our Hearts Monthly Partner. 

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Dannah: Thanks, Portia. I love that. All right, I guess the question is, what makes your blood boil? Is it bats, blood pressure, or bad toe habits?

Erin: I gotta side with Robyn on that one. I’m not down with the clicking toe nails.

Portia: It’s probably going to be snakes for me.

Dannah: Whatever is making you angry, today's episode is an invitation. A reminder that your anger is the dashboard of your emotional system saying check the engine. Check out what's going on. There's a deeper issue here. And if you figure out what that is with prayer and the Word of God, you are going to overcome it. You're going to feel so much relief. 

You know you have had a winning episode of Grounded when your mama texts you. Want to hear what my mama just wrote?

Erin: Oh, can we hear from your mama?

Dannah: Yeah, I heard from my mama. I mean we're hearing from a lot of people. But my mama wrote, “Grounded so needed today!!!” exclamation point, exclamation point, exclamation point. And then the crying emoji. I think it's the good crying emoji like you know God's doing good things. 

Erin: Oh, I love your mama. It's been too long since I've seen her. Have me over Dannah’s mama, feed me. 

Dannah: Any day come, and we will drop in.

Erin: This has been a good episode that is a place for me to share what God's doing in my life. I think Ray’s right. I think as women this is something we need to learn to talk about so we can get free. Next week's episode is also going to be home run. I'm just gonna call it in advance. We are going to be talking about the issue Portia mentioned at the top of the episode inflation. 

We do know that you're feeling it. We've got Jan Thompson stopping by she is a gifted financial planner grounded in God's Word and Crystal Payne, you might know her as the Money Saving Mom. We all need some money saving advice, so set a reminder. Be sure to be here back next Monday. Let's wake up with hope together next week on Grounded.

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