Jani Ortlund: Let’s open in prayer, shall we?

Oh Father, we bow before You. You’ve given us this hour together. We’re Your daughters, we’re involved in ministry. Some of us don’t even know how we got here, Lord, but You’ve brought us here. As we’ve been reminded, Heaven rules, so this is Your glorious and therefore good purpose! Lord, we open our hearts to You, to whatever You want to do in us, through us, because of Jesus Christ. He is our King. We love Him; we want to serve Him, so help us! It’s in His name we pray, Jesus Christ our Lord, amen!

Well, I’m so glad to see you all! I’m so glad to be among other ministry wives! Isn’t this great!? How many of you are married to someone in ministry? Most of you. How many of you have your own ministry as well? All of you should have raised your hand, because you do, right!? You’re wondering, What's Jani’s definition of “ministry”?

Well, I’m sure you can identify with this lady who called me a while back. Although her voice was new to me, her story was not. “I need help,” her voice quivered. Then she caught her breath and went on. 

“I love my husband. I love my children, and I am totally committed to the Lord Jesus Christ.”

“But how do I weed out the roots of bitterness and resentment that are beginning to grow in my ugly heart? How do I fight for hope in the midst of the darkness closing in around me? It seems that someone is always unhappy!”

“My dear husband has his Master’s degree, and yet our finances are a huge stressor, putting a strain on our marriage. And the day that should be the most joyful of the whole week has become the hardest! I’m wondering, Jani, is this sustainable over the long haul? Will I make it? What I really want to know is, tell me, is it worth it?” 

Now, if you have asked any of those questions, I want you to know you’re not alone. And I want you to leave today encouraged, refreshed, and believing—along with me—that, “Yes! It is worth it!”

In our time together I want to do three things: I want to acknowledge you. I want to acknowledge the difficulties. I want you to feel seen. I want to acknowledge you. Secondly, I want to help us embrace His promises. I want you to feel refreshed, that you will indeed be rewarded one day. And then, thirdly, I want to ask you to take a new step forward, and convince you that it really is worth it.

So let’s start with that first area of acknowledging the difficulties of what our kind heavenly Father has called us into. I’m sure some of you have grown up thinking, I love the Lord. Maybe He’ll let me marry a Christian pastor or minister. 

Others of you got married, and then your husband did an about face and said, “I want to go to seminary.” There’s a whole mix in here. There’s no formula for how we all got here. But I want you to know that you are seen—and not just by this little seventy-two-year-old lady standing up here looking at you—but by our heavenly Father, who called you to your exact place of service.

Now, let’s acknowledge some of the stresses I’ve had to deal with and I imagine you are as well. Ray and I have been in ministry together now almost fifty-one years. One of the first stressors that I felt in ministry was loneliness. I didn’t realize how lonely the ministry could be, because it seemed like everybody wanted to get to know the pastor’s wife.

But especially if there are no other ministry wives near you that you can relate to, and maybe you’re planting a church or maybe your husband is a campus pastor and there aren’t other ministry wives, or if he’s just a regular old pastor in your congregation and you’re married to him, and there are no other pastor’s wives in your congregation . . . 

It can be hard to form relationships with other women. Oftentimes I found when we entered into a pastorate, they knew who I was, but I didn’t know who they were. Or, they’d introduce themselves, but I couldn’t keep them all straight!

Oftentimes the women in our congregation had existing relationships that had gone on for decades. I mean, they were really close friends. Or other times, I sensed there was maybe a little bit of a mixed motive in their wanting to get to know me. I wondered if she wanted to get close to the center of leadership in the church.

Or what about if you’re a church planter? Are there any church planters in this room? Well, you probably have formed some pretty deep friendships with those who began the church with you, who planted with you. Then your husband makes a decision that someone doesn’t agree with and your friend is gone . . . without a word!

How do you deal with the shock, the disappointment? It’s just very, very difficult. You feel lonely because there is no one you can be totally open with in the flock. You can’t tell them about the elders’ meeting! You can’t tell them about the marriage problems your husband and you were counseling with another couple—you can’t! You can’t share.

And you don’t want to burden your already overwhelmed husband. I don’t often feel free to . . . I mean, Ray would feel bad for me to say this, but I don’t want to add more burdens to him. I want to take them from him and help him and support him.

Who really knows you? Who really understands you? Who can you be open and vulnerable with? Who can you cry with? Being a pastor’s wife can be very lonely! Or what about your children? Being a pastor’s wife can add a certain stress to how you mother your kids. Someone always seems to be watching.

Whether it’s the nursery worker who feebly smiles as you forcibly pry your two-year-old’s arms from around your neck and hand your screaming two-year-old once again into her arms. Or if it’s the music director, trying to save his priceless Gibson guitar from your preschooler’s curious hands . . .

Or the visitors trying to talk with you and your husband after the service as your ten-year-old skillfully climbs the acorn tree in the parking lot and shoots acorns at those other obedient children walking to their family car. Ask me how I know! (laughter) You don’t want to raise your children in the public eye, but there’s no way not to.

So you feel caught, and you want more than anything else for those precious children to love the Lord Jesus Christ with all their hearts and to understand—and even embrace—the sacred privilege of ministry. 

You don’t want them to grow up hating ministry; you want them to love it! You want them to see some of the joys and rewards of serving Jesus by caring for His church. But you also struggle with the burdens of caring for so many needs. How do you live before those who know you best in ways that are both real and radiant? 

What about your husband—that pastor you sleep with! (laughter) One of my cheeky friends said, “You should have named your book, Help! I’m Sleeping with My Pastor!” (laughter) Ray voted that one down! But that man you married, oh how you love him! You see him behind the scenes, and you know how much he cares and how hard he is working! 

You’re his sounding board, and you wonder how best to handle the disappointment or discouragement or even the depression he’s dealing with. You thought your marriage would look and feel different than what you are experiencing right now.

And what about your budget? If you are planting a church, your salary may not be as secure as you had hoped for when you were taking out loans for your husband’s seminary training.

What about his schedule? You didn’t realize how hard evenings and Saturdays could be as he works so hard to fulfill God’s call on his life. How do you keep the romance alive under these kinds of pressures?

Well, what about Sundays!? Give me a break! (laughter) Oh, my goodness! A day of rest?! My Sabbath? That’s not our Sabbath! Sundays bear a very unique strain for pastors’ wives. We often see our husband off early in the morning, hoping he gets a good breakfast and a warm embrace from us with a promise that we’ll be praying. 

Then we start getting the children dressed and fed and into the car and into their various classes, or maybe sitting next to us in church . . . but often we sit alone. Then afterwards, we need to round up the children and get them home while the pastor greets people and then oftentimes closes up the building . . . and maybe even brings home some surprise guests for lunch! (laughter)

Sundays can be a very hard day for ministry wives, because on Monday—especially if you have children—you can’t take Monday off. Even if your husband wants to have a day off with you, it’s difficult when you have children at home because they have to get up and either attend home school or school where they are attending outside the home . . . . but your job keeps going.

I see you. I understand. Even more importantly, your heavenly Father sees you. We could list other difficulties, but let’s not camp there. (You see that I’ve been some of the places you’ve been.) Let’s move on to God’s wonderful promises, and let’s learn to be refreshed by them and embrace them as our very own!

First of all, let me say this: you will be rewarded! . . .maybe not in the way you’re hoping for right now, with a housekeeper every other week or a big raise or an obedient child (laughter), but you will be rewarded. We’re going to look at some verses about that.

Let me say this: there are no surprises in your ministry, no surprises to God. He has a plan, and He’s working it. You are a part of that plan as much as your husband is! Ephesians 2:10 says, “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared [you know the word] beforehand, that we should walk in them.” 

God is not surprised by what you’re going through—even that painful experience. When you look to Christ and trust Him, that very pain can be one of the good works that God prepared beforehand for you to walk in. You see, it proves to you and to your family that your faith is not mere words. It is reality being worked out through your heart and your mind and your mouth.

Not only are there no surprises to God, there are no shortages. Philippians 4:19 (you know this): “And my God will supply every need of yours according to his riches in glory . . .” and He’s pretty wealthy! Every need—physical, emotional, spiritual, financial. 

God doesn’t promise how or when He will, but the verb in this verse is still “will”—God will, not God can. He’s not asking you just to trust Him for some theoretical, theological truth. He is asking you to trust Him for what He will do . . . we just don’t know when.

It’s not that God is only able, He’s willing! Don’t give up! Wait on the Lord! I can tell you that not one of His promises has ever failed the Ortlund family through the ages—despite difficulties, hardships, a lost baby, financial do-do, all sorts of trouble. 

Not only are there no surprises and no shortages, but there are sweet rewards! Colossians 3:23–24: 

“Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward. You are serving the Lord Christ.”

As a pastor’s wife, I’ve found the next verse in that chapter helpful to me. Colossians 3:25 says this: 

“For the wrongdoer will be paid back for the wrong he [is doing], and there is no partiality.” 

There are sweet rewards for you as work heartily for the Lord.

Let’s take God at His Word. He will keep you all the way to the end. As 1 Thessalonians 5:23–24 says, “. . . may your whole spirit and soul and body . . .” Don’t you like that? All of you! Paul is saying may all of you—your whole spirit and soul and body “. . .be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. [Now listen to this:] He who calls you is faithful; he will surely do it.”

If He called you, He will do it. You’re not alone. Now, I want to come to my final point then I want to have an open mic and have some conversation. If you have questions, or you can share some words of encouragement, I want us to share because I find pastors’ wives rarely get a chance to and encourage each other.

I want to encourage you to take a new step forward. It will be worth it. How can you go home more ready to serve the Lord Jesus, more ready to love your husband well? More ready to care for your children and to serve your church? What are some practical takeaways you can carry with you as you leave tomorrow? 

Well, here’s the first one you might think about: admit to yourself that ministry is a crisis vocation! You’re laughing—some of you are crying, some of you are laughing; that’s how mixed up we are, because it’s true, isn’t it? We’re laughing because it’s true! It is a crisis vocation. Think through what drains you, what sucks the life out of you. 

As best you can, choose which situations you will allow to become emergencies—in your heart, in your marriage, in your home. Coach yourself as you would coach one of those people that come to you for counsel.

Coach yourself on how to practice a Sabbath rest. It’s hard, but it is a commandment. I believe God gave us those commandments out of love. I call them His loving law. He loves us through them. How can you take a Sabbath rest? What does that look like? How can you plan periods of catch up and renewal? The fact that you’re here this week is wonderful! 

I do hope you’re being refreshed in the Holy Spirit, through the Word and through other relationships here, too. But admit to yourself that resting is not a sin, it is a commandment.Admit to yourself that finding a way to rebuild,regroup, to rethink, is a way to keep moving forward. It’s not stalling. Talk it through with your husband.

We had our first three children very close, in less than three years. Early on, I just could not have a quiet time in the morning very regularly. There was always one that was up early or sick with an ear infection or . . . you know how it goes. 

And so Ray would help me as best he could. One night I remember waking him up . . . Dane was nine months and Christa was a year-and-a-half, and Eric was two-and-a-half. At nine months, Dane (this boy who wrote Gentle and Lowly) had not learned to sleep through the night—at nine months, can you believe it?! I was not a gentle and lowly mother at that point! (laughter)

But I remember that night that I’d been up for a long time (felt like since he was born!). Somehow our husbands can sleep through crying babies. Is that true in your house? I remember this particular night; I was really exhausted and frustrated!

Dane was crying, and I was going to get up and get him. I said, “No, I’m not!” I started crying. Well, Ray didn’t wake up, and he’s right here! So then I started shaking, shaking him. “Wa-a-ah! Wa-a-ah!” And he says, “What’s wrong, Jani? What’s wrong, is the house on fire?!”

“No, Dane is crying again! He has been for the last nine months, and I’m tired! Waaa.” (I kept crying.) 

He said, “Okay, okay, don’t worry. I get it!” He called a friend of mine and had me go sleep there. He gave me a twenty-four hour mini-retreat. I went and slept there. I came home the next day and asked, “Did Dane cry?”

He said, “I don’t know. He never wakes me up during the night!” (laughter) 

But it did help me. I was able to get a full night’s sleep, and I realized Dane could sleep the full night without me giving him a little snorkel of milk . . . so there, he learned!

We have to learn how to take little breaks. Maybe it’s with another woman in your church, where you exchange children. I did this later on when the kids were a little older, we exchanged Tuesday mornings. We promised each other that while we were away, we would only do restful things. 

We’d take our Bible, read a psalm, read a book, get a good cup of tea somewhere, something that would be soul-fulfilling. So twice a month I had three hours to go away. Ministry is a crisis vocation. Learn how to rest, plan for it. Rest is not a sin; it’s a commandment.

Now, in this crisis vocation that you’re involved in, please try not to be a loner—hard as it is. Pray about and work toward developing a genuine biblical relationship with another pastor’s wife, or even a pastoral couple, if your husband desires this, too.

If she lives in another city and you can’t get together, schedule a Facetime once a week or at least an email connection where you’re saying, “Pray for me in this way, and let me pray for you.” Take Isaiah 42:16 to heart. Maybe you could meditate on it with your pastor’s-wife friend. 

It says this: “And I will lead the blind in a way that they do not know, in paths that they have not known I will guide them. [He can guide you into paths of rest, even if you’ve never known them.]
I will turn the darkness before them into light, the rough places into level ground. [Don’t you love that?] These are the things I do, and I do not forsake them.” Ask God to do that for you.

Another step, along with acknowledging that ministry is a crisis vocation, is beware of fix-him fever, which many of us pastor wives struggle with. I do. Early on in ministry I felt that God asked me to marry Ray so I could fix him. I mean, come on! Why else would He bring this wonderful woman to this pastor? So I could help him see where he could improve!

That really works in a marriage, doesn’t it? Hmm, poor Ray. He was so patient with me! I thought that would make everyone happy. But I learned through my many mistakes that I just can’t please all the people who come to me with their complaints.

I mean, I had some of the silliest complaints—from how to pronounce a missionary’s name to which side of his suit coat he should wear his lapel pin on. I just thought, Oh, Mrs. McGillicuddy will be happy if you follow that. Uh, Honey, listen! Wow. It needs to be okay with us that we can’t please all the people all the time.

Some of you who have heard me speak have heard me tell the story of my own fix-him fever episode that helped me. It was one Sunday night. We were pastoring a large rather formal church that had two morning services and then a separate evening service, and there would be two different sermons.

Ray would preach the same sermon twice Sunday morning and a different sermon Sunday night. It’s a wonderful church. Oh, we loved that church! But you can imagine how tired Ray was by the end of a Sunday night.

We’d always talk it through. Do your husbands say, “Well, how do you think it went, Honey?” And they want to hear, “It really went well. The Lord really used you!” You want to tell them the truth, and there are truths in that, but somehow I could always find something to fix. 

That night I remember, after I’d told Ray a couple things that some very sweet older women had passed on to me for my pastor to know. Rather than me saying [to them], “Why don’t you make an appointment with him?” They were making me be the go-between, but I hadn’t learned yet.

I was telling Ray (and I was talking so quickly he couldn’t get a word in edgewise), so he just kind of put his finger over my lips. I got the idea that maybe he wanted my lips to stop moving for a minute. He took me in those big handsome arms of his, and he looked me in the eye with his big Ray Ortlund blue eyes, and said, “Jan, can I tell you something?” 

And I said, “Oh, yes, Honey, tell me.”

He said, “Every man on the face of this earth needs one person—just one!—who isn’t trying to fix him, who thinks he’s okay and is trusting the Lord to fix him. Would you be willing to be that person for me?”

Oh, boy, howdy, I didn’t want anybody else signing up for that job! (laughter) “Yes! Me! Me, your wife!” I know that there are things (because you married a human) that you could see, maybe, could be done differently. Forget it! Leave it!

If it’s that important, God will show him—or maybe an elder, or maybe that other wife will make an appointment with him and talk with him, who knows?—not us! As we walk out this door, let’s leave fix-him fever here. I do not think it is of the Lord. Be the one person in the world who is not trying to fix your husband and change him. Enjoy him, accept him as he is! 

Then, let me tell you this. Jesus is worth it! All ministry, whether it’s feeding the children at home while your husband goes off on his own to church, and you getting them there on your own, that’s ministry. It’s open-handed sacrifice to our King of kings, where we say, “I surrender all!” And we need to keep surrendering . . . all the way to heaven!

Last week, dear Gina (Gina’s our helper there at RAMG; she holds us all together) prayed for me and counseled me. I was having a really bad week over a struggle that I won’t go into. It wasn’t a family struggle, it was a financial struggle. I can tell you this much: my husband felt we needed to take a huge financial hit for the sake of Christ, and I felt bitter over that! 

I had other plans for that money. And on my walk, I thought of that old hymn “I Surrender All.” I thought, Lord, how many times have I sung that? But I’m not surrendering all, I’m holding on! It is worth it to follow Him. Gina helped, she prayed for me, the Lord helped me, and it all worked out, didn’t it Gina?

It’s amazing how the Lord provided and everything is settled, and Ray and I are very happy together. This is good! But I want to tell you that it is worth it to follow Him. “Your labor in the Lord is not in vain” (1 Cor. 15:58). 

What you are doing may not seem to be effective or fruitful in God’s grand scheme, but God is always at work and He uses even our meager efforts—cooking a healthy meal for your husband to keep him strong to serve, going to yet another baby shower for a church member when she has no idea of your own longing for a baby, giving to the church’s building campaign, sacrificially, when your own home is still a financial drain on you. Your labor is weighty. It is never in vain. It is profitable in God’s economy, which is the only economy that is eternal!

Jesus is a good and kind and wise leader. Psalm 84:11 says, “For the LORD God is a sun and shield; [He gives light and protection] the LORD bestows favor and honor. No good thing does he withhold from those who walk uprightly.” 

He’s not stingy, and He determines what is good. We can trust Him! Nothing that is good will ever be withheld from you by your loving Father. That might be hard for you to see right now, but trust Him. Every word of His proves true!

Father, I thank You for each woman here, and each marriage represented, each ministry that You have called into existence. Lord, we’re doing this for You, we’re doing it with You, we’re doing it through You. 

We want You to get the glory, and we need Your help! So, Father, reach down into each heart—You know the individual needs, and I pray that You would minister to Your ministers, in Jesus’ name, amen.

Now I would like to take time for some questions or comments. 

Heather: My name is Heather. I’m from Ohio. My question is, what have you found is the best way to encourage your husband when he’s been in seasons where he’s just weary and tired?

Jani: Are you thinking mostly fatigue or are you thinking about depression as well? 

Heather: I think just physically tired, also not finding the joy in his ministry as much as you would hope.

Jani: Yes, we want to see that sparkle in our husband’s eye, don’t we? We want him to come home and say, “Oh Honey, guess what happened? This is so wonderful!” And we don’t. Why? Because we’re this side of heaven, and it’s hard going day after day, and sometimes we don’t see many results.

What’s been best for us is for me to ask Ray, “Darling, you just seem burdened. Can we talk about it?” And we try to figure out a time when we can really talk. “Can we plan? What could we do? What would be burden lifting for you?”

I’ll tell you what worked in our marriage. When Ray was in his late fifties, he learned to hunt. Now, I was hoping it would be something more like tennis together or something together. But hunting? He loves hunting! So I learned to hunt with him.

But that’s his therapy. He tells people, “If I went to a therapist, my therapist would just send me to my deer stand!” (laughter) And so as a wife, sometimes it’s hard for me. Deer season starts tomorrow. He will be up at 4:30 a.m. getting ready with his bow, because bow season starts before muzzle loader! . . . and, I won’t go into that! (laughter) 

What pastor doesn’t grow tired? Let me say this: encourage him! What better way could he spend himself and be tired than serving the Lord? If we’re going to be exhausted this side of heaven, let’s be exhausted serving our King!

So there’s a sense in which you can encourage him that way: that he’s serving the King of kings, that you’re not surprised that he’s tired, you see how hard he works. But you are concerned that he won’t be able to keep this up forever, and so, “How can I help?”

“Do we need a night away? Do I need to get a babysitter for the kids one night? Do you need some time away?” I know one of our sons takes a week off and goes fishing by himself. He’s a very busy minister, and his wife frees him to do that.

Now, some of you might be thinking, But what about me!? I’m tired, too! I don’t know if I have the strength to do that. Ask the Lord; He’ll help you, He will. We married our men under the call of God and part of our role is “helpmeet”—helping him.

So let’s be women who say, “Lord, this is what you’ve called me to. Now, “Faithful is HewWho called you . . .” (I just read it, 1 Thessalonians 5) “. . . so help me to do it!” Arrange a time to talk, try to figure out something for him to do that would be fulfilling.

And then find a verse of Scripture that you can pray over him daily, a promise you can cling to daily . . . even if not with him, that you can claim: “Lord, Your Word says it. I’m not seeing it, but I believe it will be true. Make it true in my man’s life, please! Be that Sun and Shield to Him!” (from Psalm 85:11—or whatever verse you find. Other questions?

Hannah: My name is Hannah and I’m from Ohio. I’m trying to preface this . . . We planted a church four years ago, and so my husband right now is the only staff. As his wife I want to be that helper. We also have four daughters.

And so balancing him coming home and wanting to process things in the ministry, because he needs that, that other voice, he needs me . . . But also there are many times where I can’t handle it. We also homeschool, and so just the demands of the day, it’s like the chaos of the moment. In a free moment we talk about the church and then we jump back in.

So, what are your thoughts on balancing conversations about ministry and church, because it could be 24/7, and yet knowing when to not discuss ministry?

Jani: Oh, don’t you love this sweet pastor’s wife? Many of you are there! You get it. We planted two churches, one when we had four little ones at home, and so I understand. You long to be all that your husband needs . . . and you can’t.

The way that I’ve helped Ray to see that is by telling him, ”I really want to hear this, but I’m so limited. I’m sorry, but I’m human. I’m just limited in the amount I can handle right now. Is there a way we could not talk about church from the time you get home until the kids are in bed?”

“And then, if there’s something you want to process, I’ll tell you if I’m able to. If I’m able to keep my eyes open and work with you on it, I’ll try! But even that, I’m not sure I can do it every night.” So we would try to have one night at least where it was just Ray and me talking and no church. We could not mention the church.

It’s kind of like date nights these days where you don’t bring your phones. It’s like we get addicted to our ministry. I shouldn’t tell you this story, it’s cruel, but I will, now that I’ve done that teaser! I didn’t have children then . . . I mean, I had them, but they were all grown and gone.

I was really missing Ray, and every time he came home he wanted to talk church, and I didn’t want to talk church. So I made arrangements . . . Now, he did have other staff, but he still wanted to talk with me, of course, as your husband wants to talk with you. So I decided to just beat him at his own game. 

I talked with his assistant. I’m seeing as I tell this story, it’s not going to relate to you, but I’ll circle it back around. It’s a good story! I talked to his assistant. She and I were friends. I said, “I’m missing Ray. I never see him! I need to see him! Let me see his calendar!”

I saw he had a lunch at a really nice hotel in our town that week with the head of our elders. So I said, “Let me call (this gentleman, I won’t mention his name; we were friends) and ask if I could meet with Ray instead. But don’t tell Ray!”

So his assistant and the head of elders were with me on this. I showed up at the lunch in this very nice hotel restaurant. And Ray said, “Oh, Honey, what are you doing here? I’m meeting Mr. Head-of-Elders.” 

And I said, “Well, you were, but now you’re meeting me!” 

And so we sat, and we had lunch. He thought that was great. I said, “Mr. Head-of-Elders is going to meet with you tomorrow, but I needed some time with you.” So we had a great lunch, but it got even better.

As the waitress came and cleared our plates away, this pastor whom I’m married to just happened to find a room key under his plate! And his whole afternoon had been cleared of any appointments by me and his assistant! So we just had some time together!

Now, you can’t do that a lot. I wish you could! (I’m blushing!) but why not!? Why not try to think as the Lord, who is so creative! He loves our marriages, and He loves our men, and He wants us to have good relations with them.

He wants them to be able to talk things through with us, and He wants us to be able to survive their talking through things with us. So how can we best work it out? Ask God for a creative solution, ask the Lord. He will give it to you. God bless you! Oh, my heart is with you. I really understand! (You see how that really didn’t relate to . . .) 

Another question? We have some over here, too. Hi, tell us your name.

Jenny: My name is Jenny, and I’m from New York City. My question is, you mentioned before that we’re not supposed to be like the Holy Spirit with our husband and tell them what they need to do. How can I counsel my husband without him feeling like I’m correcting him or telling him what to do?

Jani: You can’t! That was a very easy answer! I don’t mean to be . . .

Jenny: So just pray?

Jani: Yes, only pray. Anytime I’ve tried to counsel Ray without his asking, without his saying, “Honey, what do you think about this? What should we do?” Anytime I’ve come to him and said, “I need to talk to you about something I think you need to work on . . .” it hasn’t worked! I mean, he’s tried to do it for me, but it hasn’t come from within.

I don’t know, maybe some of you can add to this. Maybe it’s worked in your marriages, and you could help me and other women in the room know how to counsel our husbands, but I don’t really see it in Scripture either. 

It does say, “As iron sharpeneth iron,” (Prov. 27:17 KJV) and “Two are better than one,” (Eccl. 4:9). I mean, there are many Scriptures like that for our marriages, I get that. But how do I sharpen iron? How can we help? Be the wife! You're his only wife.

Love him passionately, intimately, wholeheartedly, and if he asks for advice, offer it gently and humbly. And if he doesn’t, pray that God will give it to him in another way—through his own quiet time with the Lord, through a leader in the church, through his mother! (I’ve talked to my boys some!) 

But, do you see what I’m saying? In my marriage it has not worked well! Alright, this is raising a hornet’s nest, I’m sure! Nancy might not want to put this on the radio! Here’s another question.

Woman: I’m from the Corpus Christi, Texas area, a small town called Rosstown. I was going to add to what she said. I think many times I wanted to also help, and when I came here six years ago [to the conference], I was a mess! My husband was ready to quit. I was ready to quit!

I wasn’t helping any. I was very bitter against so many people, just basically feeling like I did everything. I wanted everybody to know I was the one cleaning, and I was the one doing . . . But when I came here with some friends of mine—who brought me again this year—they told me, “You’re going with us!” 

And I said, “I can’t . . . I can’t afford it, and I don’t have time, and my kids are little. There’s just no way!” 

And they said, “Well, we’re not giving you a choice. We already spoke to your husband.”

I came here and it was at Cry Out! The whole weekend was about prayer and calling out to God, like what we’re doing tonight.

I remember just bawling the whole time! I said, “I don’t know why you guys brought me! I’m just whining and crying the whole time. I’m making your weekend awful” But God transformed me! And when I got back home, I began a 40-day fast. (I’m sorry, I’m going to cry.)

But God changed everything! And He changed my husband’s heart, and He changed mine. The Lord sent a pastor-helper who was a missionary in Africa for years and years. He had gotten cancer, so the Southern Baptist Convention canceled his whole thing so he would come back home. 

They said, “What good are you if you die over there?” 

And he said, “Well, I want to die with them!”

And they said, “No, you’re no good to your family if you die.” 

And so he came back to Corpus, which was his hometown. He prayed for six months, visited churches, and then the Lord called him to our church . . . right after I was done with the forty day prayer and fasting! 

Jani: And he became your husband’s friend?

Woman: He would come on his furlough for many years. When he would come he would visit our church. He said that when he was weak in Africa, he would listen to my husband’s sermons . . . We’re a very small church, but my husband always puts the sermons online.

And so, when that happened, my forty days were over as far as fasting, and I know that God had changed me. But He was about to change my husband in that he sent a helper! And when he came, everything began to change!

And the reason my husband was so down was because the only helper he had had for years was dying of cancer, and that was his older brother. He was the only helper. He was so discouraged, and I was always trying to help, and I was always trying to change him according to me, fix him. 

I just backed off completely and began to just love on him and just be there for him. But I just want to say, this is something maybe God is going to do for you this time around in this convention, this conference.

Jani: Yes, thank you! That’s so encouraging! Others? Comments or questions. (We have a few over here, Gina.)

Woman 2: First of all, I just want to say you’re amazing! Thank you for helping us! But the question is, do you ever get used to people leaving? You mentioned you invest in them, they become your friends, you love them.

And there’s a decision that’s made in a church by a lot of people—a group of people—and they leave the church and they disappear! First, how did you and your husband deal with it, and secondly, do you ever get used to it? How do you not take it personally?

Jani: That’s a very important question! If there is someone who has a good answer, I really need you! No, seriously! I would love to share the microphone with you. I find in my own life that it isn’t ever easy to lose a friend. I’ve never had a close friend leave where I’ve learned how to ignore it.

I have found that it helps me more and more to serve the Lord like this: open hands and just place that family in Jesus’s hands rather than what I want: “Don’t go! We’ve invested so much together! Stay! Our kids have grown up together!” . . . whatever. 

Open-handed: “Lord, they’re Yours! They’re not mine, but I’m aching! I give them to You. I’m laying it down because the life of faith is a life of open-handed sacrifice.” We don’t get to choose which sacrifices the Lord will ask of us in His great plan.

So, I don’t have an answer for, “Has it ever been easy for you?” No. It has not. I think that’s one of the hardest things of ministry, because it’s a people business. When you lose your people, you lose a lot! It’s really hard. 

I think sometimes for us moms . . . because oftentimes it will be the men who make the decisions and it’s, “Come on, Honey, we’re going to go to another church.” And the wives don’t have the time to work it out all the time, but I know it’s hard. Others?

Susan: I wanted to add to that. I’m Susan from Indiana. I think it’s always hard, we always miss those folks when they leave. But I think if we truly believe that our husbands are being faithful to God’s Word and that we are being faithful to God’s Word, I’ve found that, for me, I realize they’re not rejecting me. They’re rejecting God and HIs Word.

If we are faithfully teaching and counseling HIs Word and they are saying, “I’m not being fed,” or ”I’m not getting [anything] out of your Bible study. It’s not relative to me.” It’s not me. I’m counseling and leading Bible study, my husband is preaching faithfully God’s Word.

And so, I’ve found that I can not take it personally, because I’m only saying by the grace of God what God says in His Word. So when they leave, they’re choosing to leave the biblical teaching that we feel that God has given us to teach.

I’ve also found that some of those folks who leave, it’s not alway the wife who wants to leave. Maybe the husband’s not as faithful in coming to church, but he pulls her away. I’ve found that I’ve been able to be friends with these ladies outside of our church.

I can get together for lunch. I can meet them for coffee and set aside church, because we’re still friends, our kids are still friends. I’m still a sister in Christ with that person. And so, they don’t have to be in my church in order for me to love them and invest in their life.

Jani: Thank you. There’s time for maybe one more. Okay, in the back there.

Woman 3: You mentioned losing a child, and I’m just curious if you have some suggestions for giving while you’re grieving. 

Jani: A very touching question, isn’t it? How to give while you’re grieving. That is really hard! I think that grief requires so much from us that I don’t think the Lord always says we have to give while we’re grieving. Think of biblical times when there would be a period of grieving.

I could be wrong with this, and maybe some of you would want to answer this in a different way, but if you are grieving and you don’t have what it takes to give, that’s okay! That’s not a sin. Something has been removed from you.

As long as—Psalm 62:1—your soul is still finding rest in Christ alone, then you go ahead and grieve. That grief will come to an end sometime—not completely and totally. But it will ebb and flow and there will be times when you will be able to serve again. But I think it’s very hard to give while you’re grieving. Can you speak to that for us? Let’s get the microphone up here, Gina.

Woman 3: This doesn’t have to do with really grieving . . . We just went through a very difficult time with our daughter with a very serious medical issue. I couldn’t give anything; I had to give everything to her.

And it was during that time that your children and yourself as well, you open yourself to your church family to ministering to you. It’s an amazing blessing to see during those times of grief, those times of difficulties, where you literally can’t do anything that your church family just takes over and does it for you. It’s a good opportunity for them to serve you and your family.

Jani: Thank you. Ladies, our time is over. It’s been wonderful to be together! Let me pray for you, 

Father, I thank You for each woman here, and each marriage represented, each ministry that You have called into existence. Lord, we’re doing this for You, we’re doing it with You, we’re doing it through You. We want You to get the glory, and we need Your help! So Father, reach down into each heart, You know the individual needs. I pray that You would minister to Your ministers! In Jesus’ name, amen.