Peace and Preparation

Rashonda: Hi, I’m Rashonda from Florida, and I’m a Revive Our Hearts monthly partner. One reason I support the ministry is because I simply love the ministry! Enjoy today’s episode of Revive Our Hearts, brought to you in part by the Monthly Partner Team.

Dannah Gresh: This might feel like an uncomfortable question, but it’s worth asking: “Are you ready to die?” Here’s author and speaker Robert Wolgemuth.

Robert Wolgemuth: I want to be ready, and I want people who read this book to say, “I’m good. I’m ready. I’m ready, whatever it is.”

Dannah: Welcome to the Revive Our Hearts podcast for March 2, 2023. Our host is the co-author of You Can Trust God to Write Your Story, Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth. 

Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth: When you think about the end of your life, would you say that you have peace and assurance? Have you thought of things that you can do now—no matter what age you may be—to prepare those you love for your death? Would you say you understand what the Bible teaches about heaven and what God has for His children in the next life?

My husband, Robert, has thought a lot about all those questions and more. He’s put a lot of his thoughts, wisdom from God’s Word, into a book called Finish Line. The subtitle is Dispelling Fear, Finding Peace, and Preparing for the End of Your Life. The book will officially be out next week, but we’ll tell you at the end of the program how you can get a copy sooner. 

Not long ago my cohost, Dannah, sat down with Robert to talk about this new book and its message. Here’s part two of that interview. Dannah starts off by asking Robert for an update on his health. 

Dannah: Robert, you know I just have to ask. We’ve been all praying with you these last several years as you fought not one but two different cancer diagnoses. How did that impact your thoughts about death and dying and heaven?

Robert: Seven years ago if I heard you ask me that question I would have said, “What are you talking about?” I was a caregiver. I know cancer as a bystander, as a spectator, but not as a player on the field.

And so to get two different cancers, just back-to-back . . . Let’s pretend, Dannah, that God is writing my story. 

Dannah: We don’t have to pretend!!

Robert: You’re right! That’s a good answer. So, you have to trust. I mean, you don’t have to trust, but you really need to trust that God knows what He’s doing and God doesn’t say, “Oh, wait . . . wha-a-t!? What was that diagnosis? What do you mean, ‘eight rounds of chemo?!’ What are you talking about!?”

He knows exactly what He’s doing. And so, if you were to ask Nancy this question, I think she would say that there was no fear, there was peace. There was a great sense of God’s presence all the way along. 

There’s nothing quite as vulnerable as being wheeled into an operating room, or one more needle stick (I stopped counting at a hundred, literally) or one more biopsy. And you’re on your stomach and the doctor’s got a quarter-inch Black and Decker drill, and he’s punching a hole in your spine But you’re saying, “This is okay. I’m not going to complain. I’m going to do my best to not be afraid.”

And so, the answer to your question is that I’m grateful that I had that experience—even in crafting this manuscript—because I wasn’t a spectator. This was my life, too. And the things that I am eagerly advising, encouraging readers to do and think are some things that I have experienced myself. 

So, this is interesting because, writing a book, your own experience has so much to do with your ability to write about it. I don’t know what the next book would be. I think I must have been crazy to write a book about death, like, “What are you thinking?!”

But the Lord put me through all of this, allowed me to experience all of it, so that I would have something to say. I would have some sense of a way to encourage people who could say, “Well, that sounds good. You’ve lived in an ivory tower, whatever, but you’ve never experienced this. You know it academically or mentally, but you don’t really know it.”

Well, now I do. It has taken a toll on me physically. I mean, I am seventy-five. You know, those years stack up. Actually, I’m right about at the spot where mortality is mine, living in the United States—seventy-five or seventy-seven maybe seventy-nine is the average death of a guy like me.

So I’m right on time. I’ve said jokingly (because I’m a hopeless salesman) that the book may be a really nice booktable item at the back of the church at my funeral service. But I’m thrilled and I’m so grateful to have had this chance.

You know, Nancy will tell you the floor of my study was covered with “death books.” I got to know people like Dr. Katie Butler—who is precious, loves Jesus, and has ushered people into glory over and over and over again.

I wanted to read about that. I wanted to know firsthand what her experience was like. This has been a joy. This has been a great adventure, and I’m so thrilled to be able to share it.

Dannah: Love it.

Robert: You know, over the years Nancy and I have many, many times said to people, “How can we pray for you?” I mean, at times as an Uber driver pulls up and I step in. I kind of feel sorry for him, because he’s going to get the gospel! 

And at the end of my time with him or her, I always say, “How can I pray for you?” I’m going to say 60 percent of the people that we ask say, “Pray for peace.” Maybe they’ve told me their story—a prodigal out there somewhere or health issues or a job or whatever—and they’ll say, ”Peace.”

Fear is the ultimate universal emotion and all of us feel it. Peace is the solution to that. It’s what Jesus says to us. It’s what Jesus said to the storm (see Mark 4:39). It’s what the angels said to the shepherds on the night Jesus was born (see Luke 2:10–14). “Peace. Don’t fear, I bring you peace.” 

So, my experience with death and my encouragement in the book Finish Line is to give people a reason to not fear and a reason to embrace peace and to realize that that’s why Jesus came! This is a big deal! This is a heavy subject.

If I could look into the faces of our friends listening right now, I would say, “Don’t be afraid. This is going to happen. Don’t be afraid, don’t fear. Knowing Jesus is knowing peace.” So, if that isn’t news you can use, I don’t know what is!

I mean, my whole life I’ve thought about death. When I’d visit my grandparents, there’s a cemetery next door. Back in the day, back in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, every church had a cemetery. 

I like that, actually, because you’re in the house of the Lord—you’re worshiping, you’re singing—and then you come out of church and right there, right in front of you, is the cemetery. And often as a little boy, I would walk up and down the rows of granite stones and see names . . . Some of them were my name, because this was family territory for me. And I was wondering what death will be like? 

So, this is something all of us will face. We don’t have to play with that. We don’t have to like softsell it by using other words. We’re going to die. 

There’s a second message in this book which is absolutely critical! I tell the story of Lazarus, which is Exhibit A in the Bible, John chapter 11. It is an amazing account of their friend, Jesus’ buddy, Lazarus, dying. 

So Jesus approaches this house. Lazarus was his friend, and Martha beats her sister out to the conversation with Jesus. She’s saying to Jesus, “How could You have taken so long to be here? My brother is dead! He died! You missed it!”

And Jesus said, “Martha, I am the Resurrection and the Life, he who believes in Me will never die.(v. 25).” Now, just think of the irony of that. Lazarus is dead. Martha is telling Jesus that He came late to the party and Lazarus has already died. And Jesus has the audacity to say, “If you believe in Me, you’ll never die.”

So that’s the whole idea of that chapter: “You’re going to die, but you’re not going to die.” The result—the net—of the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ is that we will never die, that we will live forever. Imagine what that means!

So this is so fun to talk about, because the first chapter is called: Dead. Not Dead. So, we’re going to die, but we’re not going to die. In fact, the original title for that chapter was: Yukky. Not Yukky. And my editor thought that didn’t sound very professional.

So it’s really this juxtaposition of knowing that we’re all going to die. But because of Jesus, because of the cross and the empty tomb, the resurrection . . . we’re not going to die! We’re going to live forever! 

So you’ve got this umbrella of hope that shades us from the hot sun and the pouring rain when we think about our own mortality, our own death. It’s incredible.

Dannah: It’s good to think about it. I mean, every time I am at a funeral—I don’t know that I can put the words to it—except that I think of this Bible verse from Ecclesiastes that says, “It is better to go to the house of mourning than to go to the house of feasting, for this is the end of all mankind, and the living will take it to heart” (7:2).

In other words, it’s better to spend time at funerals, because everybody is going to die. You need to take this to heart so that you respond to life well, you respond to Christ well, you respond to the gospel well.

I mean, I don’t know how to explain it, except I am aware when I’m there in that sad place that it is good to be in that place, because my heart is getting centered and reminded of what really matters, right?

Robert: Yes, that’s so good! Yes, that’s true, and the older you get, the more funerals you attend—a lot more funerals than weddings. That’s a good thing, you’re exactly right. Solomon had it, he nailed it, because what happens when you sit in a funeral, especially when they’re talking about the person who’s gone? You know, children, grandchildren, mate, friends. 

What do you do when you’re sitting there? (At least I do.) I say, “I want to be that guy. I want to live a life like that so people say that at my funeral!” It’s incredibly inspiring for me to go to a funeral of a man or a woman who loved God, who took good care of their families, who served well, who loved well. 

Again, I sit there and I say, “I want to be that guy! At the end of the day, at the end of my life, that’s who I want to be!” It's incredibly inspiring to me!

Dannah: So we’ve talked about dispelling fear, we’ve talked about finding peace. Based on your research and experience, Robert, how do we prepare for the end of life? How do we get ready for that? 

Robert: Well, there’s a chapter called Nuts and Bolts, and I say that every person—man or woman—especially as you get a little older (but this would be true even before you get really old), you need to have four people in your life. And I get into some detail in that chapter. 

Some people are going to read that and go, “Eh, this is kind of boring.” I’d really encourage you to stay with it, because it talks about documents you need to prepare. This isn’t for you, you’re gone. This is for the people who follow you.

Dannah: We had a guest on Grounded recently, a physician who worked in the ER. She said, “Death is always hard. When I had to go out and tell a family . . .” Death is always hard. But the families it was hardest on were the ones where the person who died who didn’t have stuff written down. Because they didn’t know if they were making the right decisions.

I said to Bob, “Baby, we’ve got to get some things in writing!”

Robert: Yes, yes, that’s it. It’s interesting. I corresponded with a good friend who would be a well-known Hollywood actor to everybody listening. I told him about this book. He said, “You know, that sounds great. I need to do that!” This is a guy, he’s probably sixty years old, and he doesn’t have anything in writing. 

You know, this is amazing, 60 percent of us will die without a will. That means the state gets to decide where your assets go! So if you’ve got a ministry (I can think of one right now) that you love and support and you’re gone, there’s going to be somebody you’ve never met who’s going to make decisions about your assets, your money, your wealth and where it goes.

What an awful thing to not let people know what you want!

Dannah: And most of us would never be irresponsible with our money in any other way, shape, or form!

Robert: When we’re alive.

Dannah: Right. And so, why not be responsible for it so that it's directed in the right place for our children, the ministries, furthering the gospel. 

Robert: Yes, that’s right. So I refer to four people in your life as your “pallbearers.” You need to have a financial planner/accountant. You’ve got to have a good one. I know people hear that and say, “Oh, okay, so I’ll have them come to my estate, and we’ll sit down in my two-story library, and we’ll have a butler help us.”

No, we’re talking about ordinary people, like you and me, who need help with knowing what to do with what God has blessed us with, when we’re gone. 

Next, we need a doctor, a personal care physician, who knows you, who’s on speed dial. The older you get, the more you’ve gotta have this person.

I met with mine two days ago. He’s become a precious friend. When I moved to Michigan seven years ago, I had to start new with doctors and churches and stuff, and this guy has become a really dear friend!

I can text him, and he responds to me in minutes, because at my age, I need help! I have all kinds of things that happen! I need a wise physician who knows me, who knows my history. So you’ve got a financial planner/accountant, you’ve got a physician. 

You need a pastor—again—on speed dial. I have a pastor who was my pastor in Orlando. I talk about him, Dr. David Swanson, who is one of my dearest friends, and he’s on speed dial. So you’ve got a financial planner/accountant, you’ve got a physician, you’ve got a pastor, and you have an attorney. 

I think some people might resist that, but there are so many twists and turns, tax issues. Again, this is the person who prepares your will. So while you’re alive, like you said earlier, you want people that are going to do something after you’re gone with you, with your estate, with your stuff. You want them to be on board, you want them to know that they’re on that list.

So the Lord gave Nancy and me a wonderful attorney who loves the Lord. We interviewed several, and when we discovered that Lisa really loves the Lord and her priorities are similar to ours. We were all over this!

This isn’t for me, this is for others who love me. So when I’m gone, nobody ever says, “I wonder what Robert would want us to do here?” They already know. Lisa knows. And if Nancy outlives me, Nancy knows.

Dannah: Exactly! What peace that gives! What peace that will give to Nancy, your daughters. Speaking of Nancy, can I ask you a question about her? 

Robert: Sure.

Dannah: There are lots of ladies listening right now, lots of women. They may have husbands who are just older and they are thinking about these things, or they may have a husband who’s sick. What are some ways that Nancy has blessed you as you’ve been writing this book and thinking about these things and finding your “pallbearers”?

Robert: Nancy is nothing if not a consummate meeting planner! And she’s not sure that she wants me to direct people to my laptop that has my funeral service in it because I think she wants to take part in the planning—assuming that I go first, which is probably a safe assumption.

In fact, as you may have seen, I dedicated the book to her. It’s really sweet. She’s never had a book dedicated to her before. So in the dedication I thank her for saying, “Yes,” to a man ten years older than she is, ten years closer to his finish line than she is.

So, as you and Bob know so well, she’s been an amazing gift of God’s grace to me! But that would be the one thing that she’d kind of take issue with: “Don’t go all the way down to the gnat’s eyebrow; don’t do every tiny detail for the service.”

But that’s another thing. It’s much better to tell the people who are surviving you what you had in mind or what you wanted to have at your service. It’s just one less stress point for them; it’s a good thing. 

I encourage readers to actually plan their funeral service. I mean, down to the hymns that they sing, the speakers, maybe the theme. What would you want in your funeral? So that when your family is either frantic (like if it’s a sudden death) or they’re mourning, because the journey has ended, nobody says, “I wonder what Robert would want now? I wonder who should be the speaker at this service? I wonder what hymns he would love for the congregation to sing? I wonder (speaking of pallbearers) who he’d like to have as pallbearers?” So, actually, there are six men. I’ve already asked them, and they’ve all said “yes.”

Dannah: These are your literal pallbearers, not your figurative ones.

Robert: Absolutely, exactly! So nobody’s going to say, “Who should we get to carry the casket?” Those six guys have already been asked and have said “yes.” You want people after you’re gone to be concerned about important things, not little details like that, that you could take care of while you’re alive. That’s so important!

Dannah: I went to a funeral . . . My pastor’s mother attended a church where the pastor had everyone in the congregation do that. They planned their funeral. And as part of that, they wrote out their testimony.

So at her funeral, there was a speaker, but she also was a speaker in a way, because that speaker read her testimony. People came to Christ through her letter that she’d written, that talked about how beautiful Jesus was in her life and how He’d rescued her heart, how she was in heaven. She said, “Don’t be too sad, because I’m pretty happy right now. I’ve never been happier!” It was beautiful, so I love that!

Robert: That is so good! That is incredible! That’s such a great idea! Some people actually have video-ed their goodbye to the people. Ken Taylor, who was the writer of the paraphrase the Living Bible, started Tyndale House Publishers. The people at his funeral had him as one of those speakers.

Some people are a little uncomfortable with that, because you’ve got this big screen and this casket and the guy’s talking. But if you’ve got a message, that’s one way to deliver it for sure!

Years and years ago my friend, Tim LaHaye (whom a lot of people know) said to me, “A book is a long letter to one person.” This actually makes book writing easier, because you’re envisioning this conversation over a cup of coffee with just one person. 

So I have written this book to one person (and I would never, ever say his name). Now, that doesn’t mean that other people can’t eavesdrop and learn from it and be helped by it. But there is a man who I’ve written this book to. As I’ve written, Dannah, I have envisioned him reading the pages of this book after I’m gone.

Honestly, this is a hardcover book that’s actually a gospel tract. The goal of this book is yes to all these things we’re talking about: helping people know how to plan a funeral and the “pallbearers” that you get, the financial planner and lawyer and doctor and pastor. But this is really a gospel tract.

My goal in writing this book is to introduce people to the Savior! Because you can have all that stuff in order, and that’s nice, but that’s not good enough. So I’ve envisioned this man reading this book (and the book is really for both men and women). When I write something and I see a quizzical look on his face (of course all in my imagination), I go back and write it again because I want to be sure he understands what I’m saying. I want him to know that I love him. He’s a friend; he doesn’t know that Lord at all. I want him to read this book and say to himself, “You know what? I’m lost! I don’t know about eternity. I don’t know Jesus as my Savior.”

In fact, in one of the later chapters I talk about being ready. Now, I am a sometimes-golfer. I own clubs. When people ask, “Do you golf?” My answer is, “I own clubs.”

Dannah: Yeah, I think my husband has a set out in the garage. 

Robert: You know that when you play a public course and there are lots of golfers out there, you’re always coming up to the group in front of you. It’s a gentleman’s game, right? You never go out of turn, the person whose ball is the furthest from the green goes next and then the next guy goes.

But “ready golf,” if you are ready to hit the ball and you approach it and you’re there, you go ahead and hit the ball. That’s called “ready golf.” It speeds the game up. So I talk about being ready. In fact, I tell the story about Payne Stewart. He was the reigning U.S. Open Golf Champion and was killed in a plane crash in 1999.

The man who delivered the eulogy was another professional golfer. Through a series of friends, he asked me to write the eulogy. I did. It was a huge honor. But in that service, one of the things he said about the three men who were killed, he said they were ready.

That service was in Orlando, Florida. Actually, the PGA postponed a tournament and all the PGA pros were there. It was amazing! So here’s Paul, a committed Christian, first of all making them laugh. People love to laugh at funerals, they do. It’s just a wonderful release, because you’re mourning, you’re grieving, you’re serious. They want to release that, they want to laugh.

But Paul Azinger told this story about Payne, about his death, about his sudden death. He said, “But Payne was ready!” And so, like ready golf, I want to be ready. I want people who read this book to say, “I’m good. I’m ready. I’m ready, whatever it is. If I’m part of the 70 percent that die slowly and there’s a long exit ramp, or if I’m hit by a truck, I want to be ready!” It’s an incredible thing to be in that position. That’s another thing that dispels fear.

If I’m not ready . . . Say for example you’re back in college and you’ve got a huge test. You’re walking into the classroom and you know you haven't studied. How do you feel? You’re scared to death! When you’re ready, that’s part of dispelling fear. That’s a huge part of it.

Dannah: Yes, we talked yesterday about that we should long for and yearn for heaven. I’ll tell you, each time someone I love goes, it does become sweeter to me. As you were writing this book and thinking about this, what about heaven got you excited?

Robert: Well, I think that there is going to be stuff to do! I don’t play a harp, and I don’t plan to learn how to play a harp. I’d rather not sit around on a cloud! So, apparently, there are good things that we’ll have to do—even like work things. I don’t know what it is, maybe it’s tending to a garden, I don’t know.

I mean, I would hope that there are power tools there, but I doubt it. But if there are, they probably don’t need to be plugged in! 

Dannah: Yeah, and they will never run out of power! 

Robert: Never run out of power, that’s right. Jesus will power up everything! You know, I think part of the answer to your question, maybe a big part, is getting to meet people that I know but haven’t ever met, for example, Nancy’s daddy. I’ve heard so much about him! In fact, Nancy and I watched the video of his funeral. It was in 1979. Nancy’s sitting there. She’s eighteen years old, and then her six younger siblings are sitting there on the front row; her youngest sister was eight. 

I never met him. I’ve talked to so many people who knew him and admired him. This is fun. I want Nancy’s daddy to meet my mother. They’re both amazing, angelic people! And I’m going to say, “Dad, can I call you Dad? This is my mother, Grace.” My mother was Grace. Her name was Grace, but she also was “grace!” 

I think they would be fast friends. I think they would have so much to talk about. You know, here’s an interesting thing. So Nancy and Bobbie knew each other. This is a mystery, so just put a question mark over the top of my head right now.

What will it be like when Nancy and Bobbie see each other? I don’t know, but it will be good. There is no pain or sorrow in heaven, right? Maybe they’ll have a conversation like, “Okay, so I got him for forty-five years, and then I handed the baton to you, and then you had him for ‘x’ number of years. Was he a nice guy? Did he build too many things? Did he spend too much time in the garage making stuff?” Whatever.

Dannah: Well, our whole paradigm of marriage will change, because the Bible says we won’t be married or given in marriage. Marriage is a picture of our love relationship with Jesus. Well, when I’m scuba diving, I don’t need a picture of a squid if I’m looking at a squid! Right?

Robert: That’s right! Exactly, so true. That’s perfect!

Dannah: So, I’ll keep that question mark above your head, and I’ll add one to mine, because I don’t know how that all works. But we do know that piece of the puzzle, right? Their relationship is going to be without that marker. I don’t know what that means, but they’re not going to be your wives in heaven. They’re going to be your sisters in Jesus.

Robert: I’ll take it! That sounds incredible, it does! You know, this is back to the verse that Bobbie quoted over and over again, “Noveye has not seen and ear has not heard [neither has it] entered into the heart of man . . .” (1 Cor. 2:9). In our wildest dreams—think about that, Dannah—we cannot imagine how wonderful heaven will be! Now that’s something that gets me fired up! That sounds incredible!

Nancy: Amen! It does sound incredible! Well, that’s the one I call my “DH”—my “Dear Husband,” Robert Wolgemuth, who’s been talking with Dannah Gresh about his new book Finish Line. It’s coming out officially next week, so you can be one of the first to read it.

You know, often we don’t like to think about death, or we’re maybe afraid of death. Robert wrote Finish Line to dispel those fears, and to help us think through some practical matters related to death and dying. 

For example, do you have a will? Have you planned your funeral service? Robert and I have talked quite a bit about that ourselves. Do you know how to let go of physical clutter? (Oh, my! We’re not so far along on that one!) But what about relational or emotional clutter?

And here’s something to think about: are you ready to receive what God has for you in the time between this moment and when you cross that finish line, whenever it is? Those are some of the issues Robert addresses in his new book. Again, it’s called Finish Line: Dispelling Fear, Finding Peace, and Preparing for the End of Your Life. 

We’d like to send you a copy of Robert’s book to thank you for your gift of any size to Revive Our Hearts. As a listener supported ministry, we depend on the donations of friends like you to continue producing this program, other podcasts, and to sustain and expand the international outreaches of Revive Our Hearts.

Would you pray about what the Lord would want you to give, and then reach out to us with your donation? And when you do, be sure to ask about Robert’s book Finish Line. The number to call is 1-800-569-5959, or online, just head over to ReviveOurHearts.com. Thank you so much for your prayers and your support. They mean more to us than you could possibly know!

Rebecca Ellerman had just delivered her fourth child when she heard the nurse say something concerning . . .

Rebecca: I woke up that morning and had a feeling in my stomach, it didn’t seem like the other three births. The baby was born very easily, seven pounds, fourteen ounces, right on time. There was nothing in the delivery that showed anything at all. But as soon as he was born, there was my bedside nurse, and her first words were, “Oh, it’s another floppy.”

I kind of looked around and I thought, What in the world does that mean? And I saw my OB, a sweet woman who had delivered my other three children. I saw her back up and just staring at that baby with a deep concern.

It was her eyes on him that I just watched, because I knew she knew that this wasn’t going to be easy, and that maybe this baby that she had just helped to be born wasn’t going to survive.

Nancy: Tomorrow, we’ll be reminded of how you can trust the Lord when you hear devastating news. Hear Rebecca’s story tomorrow here on Revive Our Hearts. 

Revive Our Hearts with Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth wants you to be prepared for death through freedom, fullness, and fruitfulness in Christ!

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