Is Gender Fluid? Countering the Cultural Lie

Dannah Gresh: God rescued Laura Perry Smalts from a transgender lifestyle. Now, she’s married to a godly man, and she’s learned . . .

Laura Perry Smalts: . . . embracing my femininity, the more I'm willing to embrace my femininity, the more it brings up masculinity and vice versa, and you begin to see this harmonious, beautiful display of the gospel.

Dannah: This is the Revive Our Hearts podcast with Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth, author of Lies Women Believe: And the Truth That Sets Them Free, for May 26, 2026. I’m Dannah Gresh.

Do you ever feel the urge to complain about men today? Maybe you’ve said something along the lines of men not being masculine enough or not being the leaders and protectors you want them to be. But I’ve got a bit of a challenging question for you today. What if women are part of the problem—and the solution? 

We’re hearing more from Laura Perry Smalts today. At True Woman '22, she shared a message about how God saved her from transgenderism and taught her to embrace biblical femininity. Gender isn’t as fluid as our culture would like you to believe. As you’re about to hear, there are some distinct differences between men and women, and some wonderful ways they complement one another. Let’s dive into the second half of Laura’s message to learn more about that.

Laura: God creates these different perspectives? And why does He create us so differently? Again, this is all about Christ and the Bride, but I think another way we can look at this is, there is an experiment. Even if you cover one eye and then you change to the other eye. Look at how different the image you see is. 

You can do this with markers. I tried this one day, you line them up in a perfectly straight line using both of your eyes, and then cover one eye at a time, and it looks like they are at a totally different angle. It’s because your brain actually processes two different images and puts them together into one complete picture. 

This is kind of like what it is with male and female, we actually process a different image. Just like the brain, we actually bring a full understanding to whatever we’re working on. 

So, we’re meant to work in harmony and complement. Men display God’s strength, His protection, His work ethic, His leadership, His sacrifice, His pursuit. 

Women represent His gentleness, His nurturing, His relational desires, His emotions, His affections, His encouragement. 

Now, you look at these pictures and it’s . . . Have you ever noticed when somebody where it’s not obvious that they are male or female, has there ever been a discomfort there?

We’re accused all of the time of being judgmental, but the reality is that God has created in each of us to recognize male or female. It’s actually confusing to the brain. We will sit there and look at someone and try to figure it out, and we’re not being judgmental. God has designed that, because He wants us to recognize male and female. 

Studies have shown that, one of the first things that people recognize about a person is that if they are male or female. 

So, this was interesting. So, there’s these books. I highly recommend these if anyone hasn’t read them. There’s one called For Women Only and one called For Men Only by Shaunti Feldhahn, although I would read both, personally. But the one that’s for women only, she wrote about men for women to read. There was this question, “Would you rather feel alone and unloved in the world or inadequate and disrespected by everyone?” And I was thinking, What kind of question is that? Like, who wants to be alone and unloved in this world? That seems obvious. 

She surveyed 400 men and 76 percent said they’d rather feel unloved and alone then inadequate and disrespected. We really have very different needs. And in fact, initially many of the men had a hard time answering, because they appeared to equate the two. 

If a man feels disrespected, he will actually feel unloved. 

I think really have both are rooted in the desire to be loved, but men feel love through respect; women feel love through security. Being secure in our relationships and needing to feel protected and safe. 

And so, what happens a lot of times, especially for men, men that are very secure a lot of times they haven’t had a very good father figure in their life. A father’s job is to bring the boy away from mom. I mean, not permanently, not like you can’t talk to your mom. But just bring him out of the comfort of mom and say, “You are like me. Come with me,” and secure him in his manhood, and help him to see that he is a man, and to give him that confidence. 

Because think about it, God has created the man to lead and to bear the burden for the family, to protect. I mean those are some scary things. 

You know, I used to think that men had it so much easier concerning God’s design. I’m really grateful for the way He design me, because I like being protected, and I like being led and cared for. 

But men, if they’re not secured in that, a lot of times they really struggle with feeling inadequate. They feel like they don’t measure up as men. 

I work for a ministry in Oklahoma City called First Stone Ministry. We deal with a lot of sexual and relational brokenness. In most cases where men struggle with the gender issues or homosexuality, not always 100 percent of the time but almost alwaysm there’s an issue with the father. In most cases, they have not had a good relationship with their father. 

She also surveyed four hundred men, “During a conflict, are you more likely to feel like your wife or significant other doesn’t respect me now or doesn’t love me now?” I can tell you if we’re in conflict, I’m always going to question if I’m being loved. But with men 81 percent say that he doesn’t feel respected. 

So, men need respect for his judgment and decision making. Respect his abilities. 

And this is funny, a lot of men don’t like to ask for directions, but a lot of men like to figure it out. I was reading some of these things. I was so fascinated about men. It’s like a conquest to them. You know, to be able to find these things out, they want to be believed in, I think is kind of the key. 

They want to be respected in their communication, in public and in private, especially in public. I have heard so many Christian women talk about and disrespect their husbands in public with other people. It just shames a man. It’s devastating. It just makes the man feel like his woman doesn’t trust him, and he feels unloved . . . even if it’s a joke. 

I heard a comedian one day, and she was totally making fun of her husband. Even though it’s lighthearted and everybody is laughing, I was about in tears. I thought, I can’t believe the way she is talking about her husband. Just that disrespect.

So, women need love to know and feel that they’re loved. They need to feel that reassurance; they need to be pursued. A man says that, in fact Perry [Laura's husband] said this, “Nagging feels like a weight is being put on me.” He’s not talking about me, but he says, "If women disrespect me and believe that I am going to fail, than why should I try?"

He reminded me of a verse that says, “And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works” (Heb. 10:24–25). So I was thinking about this idea, when you stir up batter, remember how it infuses energy into it. It’s living and it’s moving. But when we disrespect a man, it’s like it becomes stagnant. You think about a broth. If you leave it on a burner just stagnant, it’s going to burn. You’ve got to put in that energy. 

So, respecting a man is really about energizing him to believe in himself, and that you believe in him, that he’s able to do what God has called him to do. 

That’s part of our job as helping. That’s part of the reason I wanted to talk about this. One, because I just get so tired of the shaming of men in this culture and the emasculation of men. I hope that we can begin to see, because there are so many that have been hurt by men. I think we project these things on them, like men aren’t good, and they can’t be trusted, and all of these things. 

But God’s design of men is good, and we need men. 

 

So, if we’ve been hurt, we need healing from the Lord, not to cut off men, not to shame men. And so, I think that is what the Lord has kind of had on my heart with some of this. 

One day we were driving somewhere and I was telling Perry (this was several months before we got married) what I had been learning all of this stuff about biblical womanhood. I started spouting some of my views on this, how I was willing to submit to him and trust him and all of that. I looked over and he just about had tears in his eyes. Perry does not cry; he’s not a real emotional man. But I was kind of stunned. He said, “You’re willing to do that?”

There was kind of this disbelief and hope in his voice. And I said, “Well, yes. I believe that’s what the Bible tells me.” And I said, “Now you realize, that puts a much greater burden on you. That means I am trusting you, and you’re going to stand before the Lord, and you’ll answer to the Lord on how you’re going to lead us.”

I wanted to make sure that was clear. “I not submitting to being your doormat. I am submitting to trust you, that God has put you into authority over me.” 

But I’ll never forget this. He sat up straighter, and he puffed out his chest. I mean, this man looked like he was ready to go slay giants. He was like, “Yes, I am willing to do that. I want to do that.” I could see that courage rising in him. I remember it spoke to me as a woman. I could feel that stirring in me like I was in line with how God had created me to be, infusing courage and energy into this man. It was like when a car has a tire that is out of alignment and is constantly pulling against the direction that the car is trying to go, or we could be in perfect alignment with the car and we can help it go in the direction that it’s trying to go. 

Because otherwise, that’s like a tug of war—which he has experienced in the past. He said that he was praying for somebody to be on the same team with him. I felt that language was kind of odd. I was telling him the other day that I love that he shares that, because I didn’t understand it at first, because I had never thought of a relationship like a team. But to a man, he is created for the work and God created a helper for him. That really is how God has wired him. 

So, I love this quote that Shaunti said, “Just as you want the man in your life to love you unconditionally, even when you’re not particularly lovable, your man needs you to demonstrate respect for him, regardless of whether he’s meeting your expectations at that moment.”

Now, that doesn’t mean we submit to him if he’s trying to get us to go against the Bible; that doesn’t mean that we submit to an abusive man. This is talking about respect in our communication, and believing in him that he is able to do what God has called him to do. Even if he is failing at that moment. 

And of course, we can shame, and we can shout them down. There is a verse I wanted to read. So, Proverbs 21:9 says it is “better to live on a corner of the roof than share a house with a quarrelsome wife” (NIV). “Better to live in a desert than with a quarrelsome and nagging wife” (Prov. 21:19). 

When I started talking to men about this whole issue of respect . . . Sometimes we think that we are just trying to solve a problem. But to a man, they feel so unloved, they just want to shrink away and get away from it. 

And so, we need to find a way to communicate that is encouraging and that builds up. God designed the man to lead, and he’s fulfilling God’s purpose for his life when he leads. We need to encourage the men to lead. And if they are not leading in the way that you think that they should, pray and ask the Lord to help them lead and find ways to encourage them and not to put them down. 

But again, if they are leading you away from the Lord, against His Word, that’s a different situation. We need wisdom from the Lord in how to navigate that. We have to follow the Lord above anyone else in this life. But God has placed that man in your life as an authority. 

I was thinking about this emasculation of men. You think about some of these funny shows that I grew up on: The Cosby Show, Home Improvement, The King of Queens, and there were many more. But what a lot of these shows had in common was that they made the wife look like the smart one. She was in control, she ran the household, she made all of the decisions. The man was an absolute buffoon and completely disrespected and made fun of. Our entire culture laughed at it and thought it was hilarious. That was a lot of the entertainment that I grew up on, but it was emasculating men. And the problem is, what is an army like when there is no leadership? What are they going to accomplish?

Satan has tried to remove the leadership in this culture—godly leadership. In fact, I was told a couple of years ago, it was noticed in one of the Sunday schools, it was a young marrieds class. They said that men almost never talk. It’s always the women answering every question, they were the ones doing the homework, and they were the ones controlling the Sunday school, rather than helping the men to lead and helping them step into the role that God has created them to be. 

This rise of feminism is shaming men. They are teaching little boys that masculinity is toxic, and that it’s a bad thing. God created masculinity. Now, it can be sinful, just as women can be sinful. 

You know, our relational desires can be sinful, but their masculinity is a good thing. I already went over those verses. Then it goes back to this idea that heaven rules. Does heaven rule or do I? Does God rule? Is His design good? I think it is. 

Where we struggle in those areas of feeling like we’ve been undervalued, we’ve been hurt, we’ve been sinned against, the answer is not to shame men. The answer is not to shame women. Sometimes we don’t like other women. I didn’t like women growing up, because I had been so hurt by my mother. But then later in life I was hurt by men, and I was just angry at everybody. 

But I think that the point is, we need healing. We need healing from the Lord, because His design is good. We live in a sinful world that’s cursed by sin, and we are all raising other sinners in relationship with other sinners. There is sin in this world. We’re not ever going to get to the point when we’re not hurt by anybody. 

We’re not ever going to have perfect relationships this side of heaven. But one day in heaven we will be.

 So, this is one of my favorite verses that the Lord really had on my heart before the wedding. It says, “An excellent wife is the crown of her husband, but she who brings shame is like rottenness in his bones” (Prov. 12:4 ESV).

I looked up the word “excellent.” There is the same word that is used in like the Proverbs 31 woman. It’s also translated as many other things like "noble" or whatever. But I thought of this idea of a crown. And a crown represents a symbol of authority. 

Now, the king already has authority, whether he wears the crown or not. In the same way, God has given man the spiritual authority of his home. And as women, we come under that. Whether it’s your minister or whatever it might be . . . Again, this is not necessarily a husband, but she is the crown of her husband. In other words, she displays to the world this authority that the man has been given. Think about this in spiritual terms. If you stand behind your husband or your male minister or your male boss, or whatever it may be, and you fight for him, and you encourage him, and you respect him, you’re putting the kingdom of darkness on notice that your husband or that man has the authority that God has given him. 

We have a great role as women. I think we’ve looked down on our role as being a helper. And again, it doesn’t mean that women can’t have positions of authority or lead, but this my heart in this, to help us as women understand that God’s design of men is good too. God’s design of men and women is both good, and He knows better than we do. 

Like I was pointing out earlier, our entire body is designed to display this. We are created for the man, but also not to be put under his feet, but to be protected by him, to be nurtured, and to be helping at his side. We were created from the side of the man to be a helper. 

Remember that God Himself calls Himself the Helper. We think of it in a negative sense, but God says that He is our help and our shield. And Psalm 37, “The Lord shall help them and deliver them” (v. 40). Psalm 46:1, “God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble.”

The Holy Spirit specifically is called “The Helper.” Jesus said,

“I will pray to the Father and send you a Helper that He may abide with your forever. But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, who the Father sent in my name, He will teach you all things and bring to remembrance all things that I’ve said to you. But when the Helper comes, who shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of me.” 

And so, the Lord Himself calls Himself the Helper. It’s not a negative thing. 

The woman is intended to be a gift to the man. Again, if you’re not married, you can be a gift to the male ministers around you. You can be a gift even to other women, of course. But I think we can encourage the men in a way that sometimes other men don’t. Men always compare themselves with other men. A lot of times they feel inadequate. They struggle to see themselves the way that God created them to be, just like we struggle with that. 

And so, I think there is something unique in women that can help them believe in themselves. Again, Eve was created from the side of Adam; she relational by nature. She was created for the man, and this is not a put down. She’s intended to be a gift to him. She’s to help him fulfill his God-given mission. She’s fulfilled by the relationship. 

I was just thinking earlier. My heart is so full from being here at this conference, because it’s relating for like three or four days. It’s just being in all of these relationships, and I just live to be in relationships. It’s hilarious to me that I ever thought I was a man, because it’s obvious as I started studying the difference between men and women, I was like, “Oh my goodness, if I had studied this before, it would be so obvious that I am a woman.” 

I live for relationships. I think when we don’t, when women are cut off from relationships, most of the time it’s because we’ve been hurt. We wall off our hearts, and we don’t want to let anybody in. 

That’s not the way God designed you. You will never find fulfillment in other things. Your true fulfillment comes in the way that God design you and embracing who He created you to be and allowing Him to fulfill you in that relationship. I mean, ultimately, only God is going to fulfill you. No man is going to fulfill you like He can, we know that. But what I am saying is that God created you to be relational. 

You can go through all types of stereotypical differences, as far as like our interests and things like that, that’s so shallow. God has created us with desires and needs so much deeper. God says He fashions our hearts alike. We really are created with these basic needs. 

Think about Mary, the responsive heart that she had when the angel of the Lord came and told her that she was going to bear this child that was going to be the Son of God. She said, “I am the Lord’s servant. May Your Word be fulfilled to me.” 

Think about what God was asking her to do. And yet, she had this responsive heart to the Lord. I think a lot of times as women, we want to take control, especially if we’re afraid of our circumstances. If we don’t feel secure, we don’t feel safe. These are deep needs that women have. 

And so, a lot of times we try to control. I have prayed so many prayers like this. Have you ever prayed and asked God to do your will? How many times do we pray and ask Him to do our will? Instead of doing His will? And this is about that responsive heart. Do you think that Mary was praying and asking God to bear the Son of God? I don’t think so. 

But the word “respect” means “to revere or to be in awe of.” It’s actually the same word that’s used in the Old Testament. I mean, one is Greek and one is Hebrew. But if you look in the Septuagint, which is the Greek translation of the Old Testament, the same word that used as the respect of men in the New Testament is the same as the one talking about the fear of the Lord in the Old Testament. It’s about that deep reverence and to be in awe of God’s good design. 

Not to believe that man is perfect, but to respect and to be in awe of how God created us. For us to help men be confident in their ability to lead, to help them in their design and praising their masculinity, especially to little boys. 

There is an epidemic in this culture of little boys and girls thinking they’re like boys, but also with little boys believing that masculinity is bad. And a lot of times, especially when there is no father in the home, they’re being raised by women. They need women. They need to be nurtured. But most of them have female teachers, most of them have female Sunday school teachers, and they’re not getting that masculine influence in their life that they need to help them be confident men. 

I talk to so many parents whose kids are identifying as trans, they’re non-binary and all of these things. Almost every case, they don’t have a good father figure. They are full of anxiety. Think about if God . . . You may not even realize it consciously, but if God created you to lead and you if you’ve ever led something . . . Think about something you’ve led—an organization or a group or a Bible study or whatever—but if you felt totally unequipped and unprepared, and you had no confidence in your ability to lead, think about all of the anxiety you’d feel.

But a man is wired to lead. If he has no confidence in that, they are just full of anxiety, and they don’t even know why.

It’s because they have this deep calling that they don’t even know, even if they haven’t committed their life to Christ. God has called them whether they know it or not, and God has designed them this way. And so, there is this deep need for this. 

And again, we have this shaming of men and this toxic masculinity that’s just not true. 

I’ve learned that embracing my femininity, the more I am willing to embrace my feminity, the more it brings out masculinity and vice versa. You’re able to see this beautiful harmonious display of the gospel. 

Now, it’s interesting, people will say that there are examples in nature of transgender animals or weird things like behavior and stuff. But I’ll tell you, there are chickens that will begin to act like a rooster, and they will try to crow and all of this, and they will strut around like they own the place. But I’ll tell you, the only time this happens is when there is no rooster. 

It's not because the chicken woke up one day and felt like a rooster. It’s because there is a lack of what’s supposed to be there. It creates this void, because inherently the chickens know there’s supposed to be a rooster. It’s like, “Well, there’s none here, so I’ll be the rooster.” 

I love this quote from Matthew Henry:

Women were created from the rib of man to be beside him. Not from the top of his head to top him to rule over him, not from his feet to be trampled by him, but by his arm to be protected by him. Near to his heart to be loved by him.

So, I hope today that you see God’s good design of both male and female. If you struggle with this or if you’re hurting, if you have emotional walls, I just want to encourage you to talk to somebody. Talk to your pastor, talk to your women’s minister, talk to somebody. Work through some of these things. The longer that we stay bitter or resentful or we have unforgiveness, it’s only going to affect our future relationships. God wants us to live healed and in good relationships with other women and with other men. 

And so, let me pray for you. Heavenly Father, I just thank You for these things that You’ve taught us today. Thank You for Your good design and Your sovereign wisdom. Thank You that we get to be a part of Your story and that we get to display Your gospel. I thank You for how this represents Christ and the Bride. Thank You for reminding us, Lord, that this is really about You.

Help us to trust You. Help us to believe in You. Help heal our hearts. Lord, I pray that You would bring healing to any women here who is struggling in any kind of relationship. Lord, I just pray that You would bring healing to their hearts. I thank You for each and every woman You brought here. In Jesus’ name, amen. 

Dannah: Amen. What a great message from Laura Perry Smalts. You know, this week we’re talking about fruitfulness in Christ. And I was struck by this today—that one fruit of godly womanhood is stronger, more courageous men. Isn’t God’s design so cool? Let’s help our brothers rise to their roles by respecting them rather than emasculating them and believing in them rather than complaining about them. This kind of femininity really could change the world. 

You know, it’s been sweet this month to reflect on twenty-five years as a ministry. True Womanhood is a core message of this ministry. And we’ve continued inviting women to embrace the fullness of their womanhood as God has designed it. Nancy’s here to tell you more about how this True Womanhood message has impacted women around the world. 

Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth: One listener wrote to tell us what a blessing this has been in her life.

Five years ago, I was a new wife and a new Christian. Becoming a follower of Christ at age twenty meant I had little background and knowledge of the Bible’s teaching regarding biblical womanhood. In my first year of marriage, I stumbled across your teaching, and it was just the refreshing, helpful and practical truth I needed to hear. Almost daily I would listen online. Over the last five years, listening to you and reading the Bible’s teachings about what it means to be a woman has completely transformed my view of my role and purpose.

Today, I’m a mom of three boys, and I’m so thankful God grabbed my heart before they were born. I used to be idle with my time, and I was critical of my husband. I used to think I only wanted a certain number of children because they were going to be a lot of work. [And parenthesis, children are a lot of work.] But now I see my identity in Jesus and my role as a wife and mom as a means through which I minister and share the gospel, hopefully generating fruit for generations to come.

Now, I am burdened and excited to share the message of true womanhood with women in my generation and the generation to come.

Wow, praise God! I’m humbled that he has so faithfully used this ministry as a channel of His life-changing Word. True womanhood is still a core part of our message, and it will continue to be in the years to come. That’s because friends like you continue to support Revive Our Hearts. 

If programs like the one you've heard today have been a blessing to you and you feel prompted to give, I’d love to invite you to do that.

Dannah: Absolutely, Nancy. As we wrap up our fiscal year, we’re asking the Lord to provide $1.4 million so we can be prepared for new ministry opportunities—things like the Wonder of the Word podcast for kids, Wonder App (we need some new updates to it), new language translations, and so much more. We’ve still got a ways to go to reach that goal before the end of May.

If you’ve already made a special gift this month, we want to say “thank you.” That donation is such a blessing to this ministry. If you’ve been thinking about giving but you haven’t yet, now would be the perfect time to do that. You can donate by visiting ReviveOurHearts.com or calling us at 1-800-569-5959. And know that, when you give, you’re allowing us to not only pursue new outreaches, but remain faithful to the same biblical teaching you’ve loved for so long.

When you give, be sure to request our latest booklet, Called to Thrive. It’s our gift to you when you make a donation of any amount. If you’re in the U.S. or Canada, we’ll send your copy in the mail. If you’re not, we’d love to give you a digital copy. Again, to give and request Called to Thrive, visit ReviveOurHearts.com, or call us at 1-800-569-5959. 

Tomorrow, Nancy’s going to be encouraging you toward a fruitful life. If that concept feels a little vague to you, it won’t after tomorrow. Nancy’s going to explain what a fruitful life looks like—and show you that it’s possible for you. Please be back for Revive Our Hearts.

This program is a listener-supported production of Revive Our Hearts in Niles, Michigan, calling women to freedom, fullness, and fruitfulness in Christ.

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