Giving Sacrificially

Dannah Gresh: Dave Cooke was in high school when he made a commitment to God.

Dr. Dave Cooke: I remember just thinking, I’d like to each year give one percent higher. So by the time I got into college, I was giving 30 percent at that point.

Dannah: We’re about to find out what happens when we give intentionally and sacrificially.

Welcome to the Revive Our Hearts podcast for November 27, 2023. I’m Dannah Gresh. Our host is Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth, author of Adorned.

Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth: Well, as we all know, there’s a lot of consumerism that ramps us this time of the year. There’s no way to miss the barrage of ads and sales: “Buy more! Buy this! Get that!” And today we’re going to be talking about just the opposite: “Give more! Give this!”

About a decade ago someone decided to try to counter the consumeristic tendency of this season by encouraging people to donate to non-profit organizations on the Tuesday after Thanksgiving. It’s referred to as Giving Tuesday.

So here at Revive Our Hearts, we want to take advantage of this opportunity to encourage you to consider the kingdom impact that your money can make. You’re going to hear in just a few moments from a couple whose lives have truly been inspirational to me when it comes to living generously.

But first, as we think about this whole subject of giving, I think the Scripture identifies at least three different levels of giving.

First, there’s what we might call “Obedience Giving.” It’s our regular giving in accordance with the Scripture. It’s what, for example, the apostle Paul encouraged the church in Corinth to do when he told them, “On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up as he is able” (16:2 ESV). So that’s just our normal regular giving according to God’s Word.

But then there’s a second level of giving which we might call “Faith Giving.” We might describe this as giving what the Spirit of God prompts us to give, but we can’t see or figure out how we can give it. There’s no way it’s going to make sense on an Excel spreadsheet, but we have faith that God is going to provide as we give.

I’m thinking of the Early Church in Acts chapter 2 where it says these new believers were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all as any had need. Their newfound faith in Jesus resulted in some pretty drastic lifestyle changes—that required faith.

And then there’s yet another, a third level of giving. We could call it “Sacrificial Giving” which is giving out of our need—not just extra we have, not just leftovers, not just what we give regularly that we’re accustomed to doing. It’s sometimes giving what we actually need to live on.

Paul called this deeper kind of generosity “an act of grace” in 2 Corinthians chapter 8. He said, “For these churches in Macedonia gave beyond their means” (see v. 3). And then he said, “As you excel in everything . . . see that you excel in this act of grace also”—giving above and beyond what you can see (v. 7). For you see, these early churches, many of them gave not just out of their wealth but even out of their poverty.

Now, I think most of us probably know something about Obedience Giving. Hopefully that’s something we’re doing already all the time. But have we ever entered into Faith Giving—giving beyond what seems doable to us? And even over and above that, have we ever truly given sacrificially? I mean, do most of us even have any idea what that means?

There’s some people who do. Over the years I’ve been really inspired by the examples of believers in Third World countries who give sacrificially, generously, above and beyond, out of what they need to live on in order to further the kingdom of Christ.

Now, that’s not meant to put us on a guilt trip. Giving needs to be in accordance with the direction and the prompting of the Spirit of God. But I think it’s challenging at this time of year when we’re spending a lot of money to be thinking about how we’re investing in the kingdom of God and whether we truly are giving generously, by faith, and sacrificially.

Now as we think about giving in a godly and generous way, I’m really excited for you to meet Dave and Jeannette Cooke. These are longtime dear friends of mine who live just a few miles down the road from us here at Revive Our Hearts in Southwest Michigan. Over the years I’ve been challenged to see the heart this couple has for generous, sacrificial giving. In a sense, they’re obsessed with being able to impact the kingdom through giving. I think that will be really clear to you as you listen to their story.

Our own Erin Davis talked with Dave and Jeannette some time ago, and we wanted to share that conversation with you today. They talked on a video call, so the audio isn’t perfect, but I think you’ll be able to catch everything just fine. Now, let’s listen to Dave and Jeannette Cooke talking with Erin Davis.

Erin Davis: Welcome, Dave and Jeannette. 

Dave: Thank you. We’re glad to be here.

Erin: Hey, Dave, I want to start with you. I want you to take us back to college—you don’t have to say how many years ago that was—but that’s when you first started to have a vision for how your giving could impact the kingdom. How did that start?

Dave: Well, it actually started in high school (at least that’s when I first remember). It was probably there beforehand. But our pastor gave a talk on tithing. He said we are not commanded to tithe in the New Testament. He said that tithing was an Old Testament thing, but if you looked at the Old Testament, it was actually 21 or 22 percent that they gave because there were the tithes, the offerings, and the different gifts for this and that and the other thing.

So I think it was a Sunday night, and I remember just thinking, Well, I can do that, and I’d like to each year give 1% higher. So by the time I got into college, I was giving 30 percent at that point. So that’s kind of how it started. It just came out of that thinking, I’d like to see if I can do that.

Erin: I think that most of us do not consider our college years to be a season when we have anything financial to give. I look back at my college years. I lived on easy mac because it was cheap, and I could afford it. I drove home every weekend so that I could wait tables so that I could pay my bills. I can’t remember if I was even tithing, but I certainly wasn’t giving a lot to God’s kingdom work.

Help us rethink the paradigm that you have to have a lot in order to give seriously. Because I think we have the mindset, “We’ll give when we have more.”

Dave: Yes. Several years after college I was going through my books on my shelf, and I saw my old red notebook. My red notebook was my giving notebook.

I would always think, How can I give more?So I’d just keep track of everything. One of the things I kind of struggled with was, “Should I give when Grandma gives me a birthday gift? Should I give that one away or not?” Because part of me didn’t want to do that.

Anyway, there were some struggles along the way. But the concept was that I would try to see where I could get some money. So I kept track of that one quarter in my sophomore year in college. I had some interesting things in there.

One was a gift from my Grandma. Another one was I collected 100 pop cans, so that was $10. Another one was I took riders home. I was at University of Michigan, and when I would come home, it was a two-and-a-half or three hour drive. I think it was $3 a ride, and I had three riders, so that was $9 I had in that. I some football tickets. If you just add them up, those little things come together. I also had a part-time job, and so there was money from that.

But my favorite one was, I was given a $2.98 cent rebate from the security deposit from my freshman year. I was so surprised that I got that. I was all excited. I thought, Rather than giving just the 30 percent on that, I want to give the whole thing on that one, because that was just like a totally out-of-the-blue gift. I had no idea it was coming, so I was excited.

Normally I’d put the tithe (10 percent, but I was giving 30 percent), I put one-third of it in church, one-third of it in youth ministries, and then one-third in “other,” which that was kind of the fun. If something would come up, I had money in the other, and I could give toward it at that point. So that went totally in the “other.” So I was excited that I had an extra $2.98, and I could give the whole thing.

Erin: I think that’s a pretty counter-cultural idea. If I get an extra $2.98, I’m going to Sonic, and I’m getting a cherry limeade. But to be excited to be able to give that away is the heart that I want the Lord to give me.

Jeannette, we were talking a little bit before we hit record. I asked you how you got started, and you said, “I don’t know. That was a long time ago.” But, what do you remember about starting to date Dave, and he has this detailed notebook of his giving, and his excitement that he would give $2.90 to the kingdom? Was that fascinating to you? Did it seem a little strange? How did that line up with your own experience and thoughts on giving?

Jeannette Cooke: I actually don’t even remember being aware of that at the time. I think I was more aware of it after we got married, and I had control of the checkbook. Because it was difficult to have two people in control of one checkbook.

So, at times it was just a little scary because I wondered, How was this going to work? But I guess I just thought, We’ll give this a try. I don’t even know how God worked it out, but He always did.

Like those times when Dave started his practice. Blue Cross/Blue Shield was on strike, and so they wouldn’t give us provider numbers. They wouldn’t pay for most of the services that we were providing for a year, so we had no income during that time. Part of me wanted to maybe save more back or not give as much, but I just let Dave do it, I guess, and joined him in that.

It’s been fun for me, too. I mean, it’s not just fun for Dave to give. I think it’s a lot of fun when you do have that money set aside, and you can just spontaneously meet a need. That’s just a very grateful thing.

Erin: Yes. I’m thinking of one time my husband and I went out to dinner, and we were a little flush. We had a little extra money, and so we left a big tip for the waitress, which normally we could never afford to do. I think we left a $50 bill. We were in our twenties. We just giggled like kids the whole evening. Like, “Can you believe we got to do that? What do you think she did with that money?” We’ve talked about it many times since. (Jason won’t like that I said that here because he likes to give a secret giver.) But it is fun to give together.

I have a really practical question. How do you decide where to give your funds? Because I can sometimes think, There are so many great ministries doing great kingdom work. There are so many missionaries on the field, so many missionaries who want to go to the field and are just waiting to get funded. It can cause a little bit of paralysis. How do you decide where you give?

Jeannette: Well, I guess for us, because of Dave being a medical doctor, I think medical missions has always been a biggie for us. Another reason is because his father started a business called Southwestern Medical Clinic. It was a place for doctors to work when they were on furlough and to learn skills that they’d need for the mission field.

And so, a lot of our friends at church were involved in medical missions, so I think we became aware of certain things. That’s certainly part of it. It’s like what bumps into us. It’s not some envelope that comes from some ministry that we’ve never heard of. But, generally speaking, we like to support people we actually know and trust.

Dave: Like in anything in life, sometimes you get burned. Sometimes they just really squander it. And the nice thing about getting burned in giving is that I didn’t give to those people. I gave to the Lord. I’ve done my part. I’m feeling like I’m good. I don’t want to give to them again because I don’t want to be a poor steward, but I just don’t feel like I have to care about how they use it because I didn’t give it to them.

Erin: You bet.

Dave: And that doesn’t happen very often.

As far as how to focus, when we were young, everything was exciting. And for several years in a row, I was making more and and more money because, in college, it was, like, almost nothing. And so the that “Other” fund was just getting huge, and we would give to lots of things.

And then we realized eventually we’re not going to always keep making more money, and there’s a limit on how many percent you can give each year. And if you live long enough, there were some limits. So what we did at that point, we just said, “We’re going to have to focus this a bit.” At that point we chose to focus and we prayed about it and thought about it for, I bet, two or three years. We finally landed it on people we know and medical missions as our primary focus.

And the reason we did it like that was because then we could give more than just money. We’re not just writing a check to something, but we have a relationship. We could say, “How are you guys doing?” And if it’s people we know or medical missions, those are areas that we kind of know something about, and we know those people.

So we can sometimes speak into them, how they’re doing, and maybe give them some advice and maybe add more than just money. So that’s how we kind of landed it.

Erin: I know you don’t give for human recognition. As you said, Dave, you said, “I give to God. I don’t have to worry about how they spend it.” That was the gold nugget that I needed this morning. I know the goal is it belongs to God’s glory and not your own. You could have given to something that would put your name really big on the building, but you’ve given for His glory.

So, with that in mind, that that is your heart, I would just love to hear where your giving has taken you. How many missionaries have you been able to support, or what are some stories of how your giving has impacted the kingdom—which I know could be a little uncomfortable, but we’re giving God glory as we tell these stories. I’d love to hear from both of you.

Jeannette: I think that it’s easy for pride to come in being that people respect people that give money. I’m thinking of the time when Jesus spoke to people and said, “See that lady that just threw in a small coin? She’s the one that’s given the most.”

I don’t feel like we’ve ever given sacrificially. And so, I can’t even tell you. I don’t count how many people we support or how many different funds. I know there are quite a few. But it’s only by God’s grace and God’s provision that we can give any of it.

There’s nothing special about us except that we do want to be faithful, and then God does this, I’ll say, almost miraculous blessing and helps us to give. So, I can’t even tell you how many people.

Dave: I, on the other hand, can (laughing).

Erin: Is it in your red notebook?

Dave: No, it’s not? We’ve moved it to Excel now.

So, every year at the end of the year, we look through our list, and we just say, “So, do we think we’re giving the right amount to each person? Or to each ministry? And do we know of anything that’s happening in that ministry for this next year?”

And because of the way my business works, I get almost all my money at the end of the year. And so, at the end of the year, we set up things. We give to a fund. It’s called a Donor-Advised Fund. And then that Donor-Advised Fund can then give. So we direct that and set that up at the beginning of the year for the next year.

I don’t know that I have any really cool giving stories, but I think we give to somewhere in the range of about 100 different organizations or people. Sometimes it’s just a small amount. Sometimes it’s a big percentage of what that organization does.

I remember somewhere early on, I don’t remember if this was the two of us or just me, but we’ve adopted it. But it was me. It was in eleventh grade. I remember where I was sitting in eleventh grade. I was at my mom’ house, where I was growing up. I remember sitting by the window thinking, I want to go into medicine so I can make a whole bunch of money so I can start a fund that can give money to missionaries who can’t raise enough support otherwise.

So we generally try to target the unsung heroes. We generally don’t go toward the big media organizations because we feel like they have a lot of outreach. We try to go for the ones that say, “I want to do this, and I don’t know what I’m doing, and I don’t know how to get there.” And they’re even afraid to ask, maybe. Those are the ones we’re really interested in.

Jeannette: We tend to be more people focused rather than projects.

Dave: Yes. Because we figure those are kind of the harder to raise funds for. Like, we’d be more interested in giving to somebody. (I don’t know what to make of how listeners might interpret this.) But we’d be more interested, potentially, to giving to someone who runs IT than to someone who is the C.E.O. because the C.E.O. has a lot of contacts. They’ve got a lot more people who are interested in giving to what they do. But the person who’s in IT or accounting, those are people who generally go into those fields because they generally are more comfortable in a room by themselves than they are in a group of people. So they’re going to have a harder time presenting their project.

I didn’t really answer your question.

Erin: No, you did. That’s a great answer. I think if we believe what Paul said—which is that there’s no spleen in the kingdom of God—then all of us who are doing kingdom work are significant and it matters. Then part of how we affirm that we believe that is with what we give our resources to. So, I think that was a great answer.

So, to those of us who want to be giving more consistently, to make it a part of our budget, to make it a part of our family economy, where would you advise us to start?

Jeannette: I guess you have to have a plan and start. No matter how small it is, just start that plan and start doing it.

I think a lot of people see how much money maybe they have left at the end and then they’ll give from that, rather than saying, “No, this money is set aside for God, and then we’ll make our decisions on what we buy based on what’s left.”

We have to spend less than our peers, too.

Dave: Well, I feel like everything we have is God’s. And so, I feel like the question should be . . . We don’t have kids at home now, but this is still our question as it was when we did, “How much, God, do You think that I get to have of this?”

And it’s just a different question. That doesn’t really say how to start. There’s a couple mindset things here, I think. I would just challenge people to have this mindset, and then the rest will kind of work out. And the mindset is not I get 90 percent and then I’ve got to give God at least 10 percent. It’s like, “This year, God, do You want me to have 90 percent? Do You want me to have 10 percent?” I get to ask how much I get to use of it as opposed to how much should I give of it?

That’s a mindset thing that it’s not mine. Let’s just pool the money there, and anything I get or buy, I’m taking from that pool, but that’s God’s pool. The whole thing is God’s pool. So it’s just having that mindset of: it’s not really mine to take from.

Now, God may want me to use almost all of it. I don’t know. It’s so different in different seasons of life. But the mindset should be: it’s not mine. I have to ask permission to use any of it. So that’s one thought.

And then the second one, and this would be my thought to college people. I remember I so much wanted to give that before I started dating Jeannette, I would just watch when I was around girls before I decided if I was willing to date her. (It’s not like I was her special gift.) 

I remember we went walking, and I just watched her eyes as we would walk by stores. If her eyes would always stop and look longingly at different things, I was not interested in her. Because I knew she would be always wanting to take that money and go spend it on things. But Jeannette didn’t really have much desire to do stuff like that.

So I think to the college-age kids I’d say, “Your choices that you make for who you’re with and who you’re around (and your spouse) are going to influence your ability to give. Is that a spouse who’s always geared toward, “Oh, I’d like to wear that, or I’d like to have that for me.” Are they longing, “Oh, I wish I could have . . .” Try to get a spouse who’s not really excited about things, I guess, would be the answer for that part.

And then the other is: it’s God’s stuff. Just have a mindset of, “Do I get to use this?”

Erin: And that is it. That’s the whole equation, isn’t it? I sat down with my eleven-year old and my thirteen-year old this week. I made them watch a budgeting webinar with me. As part of that, you had to outline your values. Now, they’re pre-teenagers and teenagers, so they have very teenager things to value.

But we had to talk about our money from a value-based perspective. I was, like, “Buddy, if your goal is to be in the NBA (which is my thirteen-year-old’s dream) and that’s his highest value, then your approach to money, even at thirteen, is going to be wonky.”

So you’re talking about starting with the heart and that flowing out to your checkbook, your debit card, and all of that. That’s exactly what we want to encourage folks to do.

Nancy: I hope this example is an inspiration to you as it’s been to me. We’ve been listening to Erin Davis talking with Dave and Jeannette Cooke.

This is a couple who are super intentional about their giving. Over the years it’s been a joy to see how God has multiplied the seeds that they have sown in generous, faithful, sometimes sacrificial giving. Only eternity will reveal all the fruit that has resulted from the giving of this precious couple.

And I’ll tell you the thing that most inspires me about seeing a generous giver, and that is how they are a reflection of the generous heart of God. “For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sake,” 2 Corinthians says, “he became poor so that you through his poverty might become rich” (8:9 ESV)

The ultimate generous giver is Christ Himself. When we give sacrificially, faithfully, generously, we are reflecting His heart to others.

Well, I hope you’ve been challenged to consider how you can approach your giving with the same level of intentionality and purposefulness as Dave and Jeannette.

Dannah: I know I’m feeling challenged, Nancy.

You know, you mentioned earlier in the program that tomorrow is Giving Tuesday. Can you just give us a rundown of what that means for us here at Revive Our Hearts?

Nancy: I’ll be glad to, Dannah.

What it means is that we all have an incredible opportunity to give toward two kingdom projects that we are very excited about here at Revive Our Hearts. These projects will allow women in Brazil and Portugal and Cambodia to receive the message of freedom, fullness and fruitfulness in Christ in their own languages.

That’s right. We’re asking the Lord to provide $156,000 through the course of today and tomorrow, and that money will go toward producing and distributing a year’s worth of Revive Our Hearts’ programs in Portuguese and Khmer, which is the language spoken in Cambodia. I could not be more thrilled about the prospect of reaching hungry-hearted women in these countries.

I should mention, too, that thanks to some friends of Revive Our Hearts, your donation today or tomorrow will be doubled. That’s because these friends have provided a matching fund, and your donation will be matched dollar for dollar. So maybe that will provide some extra incentive for you.

Now, I know that $156,000 over the course of just two days sounds like a lot—and it is—but we’re trusting the Lord to provide to make these projects possible. And we’re inviting you and all of our Revive Our Hearts’ team as well, to be a part of helping to make it happen.

So I hope you’ll prayerfully consider making a gift before midnight tomorrow as part of our “Giving Monday and Tuesday Project.”

Dannah: Yes. And, as a thank you for your donation of any amount, we’ll send you a copy of (Un)remarkable, Volume 2 when you request it.

Nancy: That’s right, Dannah. (Un)remarkable, Volume 1 had the stories of ten women—ordinary women—who said, “Yes, Lord,” and whom God used in remarkable ways.

And now, (Un)remarkable, Volume 2 has the stories of ten more women, and it’s available exclusively from Revive Our Hearts. It’s our way of saying “thank you” for your donation of any amount.

Dannah: And all the details can be found on our website, which is ReviveOurHearts.com, or you can call us at 1-800-569-5959.

Nancy: And when you call, be sure to tell our Ministry Services rep that you want to help fund the Khmer and Portuguese language programs. And don’t forget to ask about (Un)remarkable, Volume 2.

Well, if you were challenged by Dave and Jeannette’s story today, you’ll want to be sure and tune in again tomorrow.

What can you do when you want to meet a need, you want to help invest in God’s kingdom, but you just don’t have the funds to give? On tomorrow’s special Giving Tuesday edition of Revive Our Hearts, we’ll hear some stirring stories from people who asked God to provide so they could give . . . and we’ll find out how God responded to those prayers. Please be back for Revive Our Hearts.

Revive Our Hearts with Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth wants you to give sacrificially and find freedom, fullness, and fruitfulness in Christ.

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