Designed and Defined by God

Dannah Gresh: For Laura Perry, detransitioning from living as a man back to being the woman God created her to be was a gradual process. She says the Scripture was crucial in that journey.

Laura Perry: And so, as God was pouring His Word into me, I was getting more and more convicted. I realized after a while that I couldn’t just twist one or two verses to kind of fit whatever I believed. The whole Bible that was telling me that I couldn’t be transgender!

Dannah: This is the Revive Our Hearts podcast with Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth, co-author of True Woman 101: Divine Design, for June 3, 2021. I’m Dannah Gresh.

Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth: These days, you’re probably seeing terms like “gender dysphoria” and “transgenderism” showing up a lot in your social media and your news feeds. As we see those terms, it’s easy to forget that there are people behind the statistics, people behind those terms . . . easy, that is, until a friend or a family member experiences it firsthand.

This week we’re hearing from Laura Perry, who spent about a decade living as “Jake,” with the identity of a man. Yesterday, Laura’s mom, Francine, shared the pain she experienced and what she learned as she walked through this heartbreaking time.

If you missed either of the last couple of programs, you’ll want to go back and listen to those on your Revive Our Heartsapp, or at ReviveOurHearts.com. I want to just remind us that it’s important that we approach these subjects from a biblical perspective. That’s where we find truth, and the truth is not only right and true, it’s also good and beautiful.

We want to learn to line up our thinking with what God says is true and right rather than what is so often promoted through the media or through our other human institutions. The Scripture says in Genesis 1:27 that “God created man in his own image . . . male and female he created them.” And then a few verses later, God says that His Creation was “very good” (v. 31).

How does that apply when someone that God made to be a woman says, “I don’t feel like I’m a woman. I feel like I’m really a man,” or they say, “I don’t want to be a woman. I want to be a man.” Is it okay for someone to try to make physical changes in order to alter their gender? Or has God hard-wired us with certain characteristics that we can’t change, no matter how hard we may try?

Those are just a few of the tough questions that Dannah Gresh, Mary Kassian, and Laura Perry address today on Revive Our Hearts. If you’re listening to the podcast version of today’s episode, you’ll notice that it’s quite a bit longer than normal, but I think you’ll find it to be a riveting and important conversation.

If you’re listening on the radio, you can find the entire conversation at our website, ReviveOurHearts.com. Here’s Dannah with a further introduction.

Dannah: Thanks for joining us today, friend. I’m joined by Mary Kassian, whom you may know. She’s a bestselling author and a leading voice in theology concerning gender. She’s also a frequent guest here—really a co-host—on Revive Our Hearts, as well as a speaker at many of our events, including this fall’s Revive ’21conference. I hope you have your tickets for that. Hello, Mary!

Mary Kassian: Hi, Dannah! Good to be with you.

Dannah: Mary, today we’re going to talk about a really sensitive and difficult topic this is full of a lot of controversy in our culture. 

Mary: Yes!

Dannah: We want to get to the heart of what God’s Word says about gender, gender dysphoria, and transgenderism. This is a conversation that’s been on your heart for a really long time, hasn’t it?

Mary: Yes, I’ve been thinking about this for a long time. Nancy and I wrote True Woman 101 to address the question: “Who are we supposed to be as women?” and “Who are men supposed to be as men?” It’s definitely a hot cultural topic: Who are we as women and men?

Dannah: That’s right. I got a letter yesterday from a mom of a twelve-year-old girl who was told by her teacher to read a book about a boy who knew he was a girl on the inside trapped in a boy’s body. 

I think I know the title of that book; it’s running around a lot of public schools right now (I’m not going to name it). The mother writes: 

“She brought that book home and showed it to me. I said, ‘Absolutely not!’ and kindly emailed her teacher, asking for another option for a book.”

“The teacher said my daughter would be removed from her book club if she didn’t read the book. The teacher then suggested she would have to find another book to read about social issues, and a partner to read it with.”

I think it’s really important that we coach parents up a little bit in what is a proper response here, and what is the gospel response instead of the fly-off-the-handle response? Does she run to the school board? Does she boycott the school? Does she pull her child out of school? Does she let her child read the book and be exposed? At some point that child will be exposed.

It’s a very complex set of questions to go along with this. And our guest today knows something about that. She is someone that you have been encouraging us to have on Revive Our Hearts for a long time. I feel like there are a lot of credentials I could put behind her name . . . she’s an author . . . But really, I just want one thing on her bio to stick out today, and it’s this: Laura Perry is an amazing woman of God! Hello Laura, welcome to Revive Our Hearts.

Laura: Thank you so much for having me! I was just thinking, I am so thrilled just to hear that spoken over me, that that is who I am—a woman of God—because several years ago I would not have wanted to hear that

Dannah: Yes, tell us, several years ago what label you would have preferred?

Laura: Well, I was living as a man, and I would have preferred being called a “man of God.”

Dannah: Some people wouldn’t say you’re a woman of God right now. I declare that, and I believe that’s what Father God declares over you today. But some people might call you a “detransitioned formerly transgendered male.” Wow! A lot of words; we need a vocabulary lesson . . . and quick!

Laura: Right! It’s funny how some people will say something like that, and then some of them say I was never really trans in the first place. And they’ll do anything to say something other than the truth, which is: that I was a woman, I pretended to be a man, and have now reclaimed who I truly am in Christ and who God made me to be.

Dannah: For those who are new to this conversation, help us understand the term “transgender.”

Laura: Well, transgender really is kind of a broad umbrella term that has changed over the years. Initially, back in the 70s and 80s, it was called “transvestite,” which meant a man dressing as a woman or a woman dressing as a man. Often it would lead to surgeries and other medical transitions.

Transgender, though, has become sort of a softer term that they preferred. It didn’t have quite the stigma, but now it’s encompassing all kinds of things. Really, the theology that they use doesn’t make a lot of sense. It’s always contradictory.

They’re always talking about how sexuality is firm and fixed and it can’t be changed. That’s one of the reasons that they don’t like anybody to suggest otherwise or to offer them help or counseling. But yet, [they say that] “gender is completely fluid.” So there’s this clash of everybody saying that gender is whatever you make it, and it’s whatever you feel: “Today I feel like a man, and tomorrow I might feel like a woman.” And yet, the reality is, you can’t have it both ways.

Mary: So, Laura, we heard your story on the last two Revive Our Hearts broadcasts, how you transitioned from being Laura to being “Jake.” Laura was the name that your parents gave you; Jake was the name you chose for yourself.

When you “transitioned,” you believed that being male was your identity; that it was “who you were.” You felt that you were a man. You felt that you should have been a gender other than the one that your body indicated you were at birth.

Laura: Right, and I remember having this conversation with my parents early on, when I first came out, and them reminding me of the truth that they knew of who I was. I remember knowing that that was the reality, but I didn’t want it to be true. I kept having to convince myself that I was a man.

I look back now, and even though at the time I really embraced this, I really believed that I was a man trapped in a woman’s body, just as they say in this culture. But as I look back, if I can go back a few months, a year or so before that, I was jealous of men. I hated being a woman and so I was rejecting being a woman.

But the more that I embraced this idea that I could become a man, the more I believed it had always been true.

Mary: Did you always hate being a woman?

Laura: Yes, from a very early age. There were just many things over the years that sort of reinforced that. I think it really culminated when I was mistreated so much by men. It wasn’t even so much personal, it was really the way that they talked about women, the way that they treated women. 

It was like “woman” had just become this awful thing to be. I just felt like it was a curse to be a woman. I felt like God created men, and then women were His leftovers that He made to reproduce men. I didn’t see any value in being a woman. It’s like I had this lens on my eyes that I was meant to be a boy, and so then every experience in life gets filtered through that.

Mary: Laura, what you are describing is what psychologists call, “gender dysphoria.” Gender dysphoria is when a woman is at odds with her physical body. She feels alienated from her sexual and biological bits and pieces, and she experiences clinically significant distress—psychological distress—about being a woman and desires to be a man instead.

That word “dysphoria” comes from two Greek words that mean, “difficult to bear.” It’s a profound sense of unease or dissatisfaction with who you are, with your body, and your identity. I experienced that a little bit as a child. I had five brothers, and I wanted to be “one of the boys,” so I became a tomboy.

But I’m sure I didn’t experience the dissatisfaction of being a girl nearly to the depths that you did. When did you realize that your gender “didn’t fit,” that you were gender dysphoric, that being female was just too difficult for you to bear?

Laura: Well, even in childhood I was living in this fantasy world. When I was about eight or so, I began writing stories about being a boy. I was playing video games all the time, pretending to be these male characters. I had never even heard the word “transgender.”

We forget, I think, how much the culture has changed since then, but when I was growing up, I didn’t hear anybody talking about this issue. I had never even thought about actually transitioning to the opposite sex. This was just sort of a fantasy, a desire. I knew that I was jealous of boys. I was angry at God for making me a girl.

But then when I was twenty-five and I had had countless bad relationships . . . I was living in all kinds of sexual sin. I had a horrible pornography addiction, and then when that wasn’t enough, I started meeting random men online. I was just so desperate for men to love me. 

When those began to not work out and I realized how every relationship I was in was just so broken, I thought, You know, the reason that I’m never happy in these relationships, the reason that this never works is because I was supposed to be the man! If I was the man, then I would show these men how a woman is supposed to be treated!

Dannah: When you’re saying that, “I desired to be loved,” that stuck out to me. Don’t we all want that? We want that so desperately! I’m thinking of a verse right now, Proverbs 19:22, “What a person desires is unfailing love; [it’s] better to be poor than a liar” (NIV).

I always thought, What a strange combination!—better to be poor than a liar? Well, it’s better not to have it and to say, “I really need to be loved,” than to just go looking for it in all the wrong places and never really getting satisfied, never really getting filled up.

I think if you look in the Old Testament, most of the time when it’s talking about steadfast love or unfailing love, the source is God. But that’s not where we look, and that’s not where you looked.

Laura: Right. That’s such a great point for any young girls who are out there listening. I have been through every kind of sexual sin you could think of, and it is so unsatisfying. 

Before I went into transgenderism, I joined an adult hookup site, and I became almost like a prostitute without even getting paid for it. I was just meeting all these random men online. I remember there was always this excitement and this anticipation and, “Maybe this guy will want me!” And then I would feel so dirty and shameful when I would leave, and the drive home was just awful as the guilt and the shame would just come over me. I felt just like the lowest of the low, like I had no worth or value, that I was just used and discarded.

Dannah: We have that in common, because I’ve been there, in that same place, where I misused God’s gift of sex before I was married. It just really was a hollow experience. You know, I think that’s because when we experience the gift outside of God’s intended design, that is one man/one woman in the confines of marriage, it’s a counterfeit! It’s not the real thing.

There are two different words used in the Old Testament for intimacy between a husband and wife. That word is about knowing; it’s about intimacy; it’s about connectedness. Then there’s another word in the Old Testament that talks about sexual sin. It basically means to exchange body fluids (blech!). It’s just like this counterfeit. You got stuck on the physical, and you didn’t get to the emotional. You didn’t get to what you really were looking for. 

I think when we try to fill that need for love with men or women or pornography or hookups of any type, it’s never going to satisfy! It’s never going to be enough. It’s always going to lead to addiction and a craving for more, because we didn’t find what we were looking for. It’s a counterfeit.

Laura: Yes, absolutely. In fact, that’s such a good point, because it was never enough! And you always want it to be more exciting and more provocative. Even with the pornography, it was such a black hole. 

I remember by the end of it—the last year or so that I was watching porn--I was so ashamed of the things I was watching. It was like, “I can’t believe that I have gotten here!” It’s just that you always need a bigger thrill.

Mary: So, Laura, you got to the point where you decided, “Okay, I’m done with being a woman! I am going to leave that life behind, and I am going to become a man!” Tell us about that process. What happened at that point?”

Laura: Well, it started with just this desperation to escape being a woman. I still had never heard the word “transgender,” but I was desperate to somehow fix this brokenness in me, and I just had no desire to be a woman.

And so I literally looked up in Google: “girl becoming a boy,” just to see what popped up. I was stunned by the amount of results that came up! And this was in 2007, so this is really before it became mainstream culture. 

Then I found that there was a local support in Tulsa, and I was like, “Wow, this is definitely who I am!” I went to the first support group meeting, and within five minutes of meeting me, they were like, “Oh, you are definitely trans!”

Dannah: Wow, that was a pretty quick diagnosis!

Laura: Right! And of course, the leader and everyone in that room was trans, and so, of course, they’re going to affirm me and say, “Yes, you're trans,” because they all want that affirmation for themselves. The more people that you can get to affirm your decisions, the better you feel about it.

And so there becomes this cycle of: you’re doubting yourself a little bit, so you reinforce it by other people affirming them, and then they reaffirm you. Then it sort of cycles back.

Mary: Laura, how old were you then?

Laura: I was twenty-five. I remember at one point in the conversation, I was really worried that I would never look like a man. And they said, “Oh, don’t worry about it! In a year or so of taking hormones, no one will ever know you were a girl!” And that was the hook that really set in the fish’s mouth.

That’s what I had wanted to hear all my life. It was like I could completely reinvent myself. But what is amazing to me is, this is such a cheap counterfeit from the enemy. My friend, Dr. Everett Piper, was the first one who brought this up to me. He had a huge influence in my life; I’d been hearing him on the radio.

At one of his speeches he said one day that we all have a desire to be someone we’re not, to be recreated, because we are to be born again, because we are in this fallen nature, and we don’t realize that we do have a desire to be someone greater than we are. 

But Satan is trying to sell us this cheap counterfeit that we can recreate ourselves. When what we need is God to make us alive, to restore us to who we were created and intended to be.

Dannah: What a profound thought: We all have a desire to be something that we’re not, because God wants to redeem us, to make us what He originally intended us to be. I love that!

Mary: I love it, too! I love the thought that ties into that. The Bible says that, “If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.” (2 Cor. 5:17). That’s what you were looking for wasn’t it, Laura? It was something you wanted to leave behind.

Laura: Yes!

Mary: You know, it’s interesting, there was a Detrans Awareness Day that was promoted and discussed on Twitter, where a lot of trans people who had detransitioned were talking about their experiences.

A lot of them brought up the idea that the reason they had transitioned was because they were trying to put a bandaid on a deep and painful wound of another sort. They had experienced some sort of trauma or sexual abuse, mental health issues, or had a profound hatred toward their bodies.

In other words, there was something far deeper going on in their hearts that changing their bodies wouldn’t fix. Would you agree with that?

Laura: Yes, absolutely! There is a deep, profound wound. It’s based in self-rejection. It’s for whatever reason, “I don’t like myself. I don’t like who I was created to be. I don’t like who I am, so I’m going to reinvent someone else that doesn’t feel this pain, that people don’t hate. I’m going to be someone that people love!”

And in my mind, people love men. Women weren’t loved; women were discarded and used.

Mary: We hear that all the time. There are various cultures and environments in which women are treated extremely poorly and are undervalued. The feminist movement tells us that there is a highly entrenched patriarchal system which gives men the upper hand and treats women as the second sex.

These messages are common and we hear them all the time, and yet, somehow they took root in you at a very deep level.

Laura: Yes, I remember even in college I was talking to a friend of mine about my views on women. I was totally putting down and degrading women, and I remember having this thought, Wait a minute, I’m a woman! (This was before I transitioned.) I had basically become a male chauvinist, woman-hating woman!

I really had developed, because of childhood experiences and then things I had gone through as a teenager, and then reinforcing that with the way that I’d been hearing men talk about women for years . . . and I had just developed this deep hatred of women.

Dannah: Yes, it’s interesting, don’t you think, that I’m alarmed that you would walk into a trans support group and within five minutes they would diagnose you and say, “This is going to solve all your problems!” when this seems to be a common thing.

You had this extreme dislike, hatred almost, of women which is not very politically correct in our culture, if I might say so! Why didn't somebody say, “We’ve got to fix this girl! Something’s not right up here!” Like, “We need to help her understand the value of women, even if she doesn’t want to be one.” Why wouldn’t that be a part of the conversation?

Laura: I think it goes back to how they have to reinforce each other. You don’t want to invalidate somebody else’s transfer, because it might shed light on the fact that maybe you’re not trans either. And so, by reinforcing each other and affirming one another as trans, it reinforces your own ideology and your own belief in yourself as trans, because no one wants to face the pain.

It’s painful to face the pain, and I didn’t want to try and fix this broken girl, because I didn’t think this girl had any value. I needed to be someone else. I think part of the very early years, even though I wanted to be my brother as a young child, something that really reinforced this idea that woman was not good was when I was eight years old. I was molested by a boy that was only a year older than me.

And you remember the story of Tamar [from 2 Samuel 13], when she was raped by her half-brother Amnon, and then after that he despised her and didn’t want anything to do with her.

That was this kid that had molested me. He didn’t completely reject me quite to that degree, but he really want anything to do with me after that. There was this [feeling of] rejection of, “Okay, you brought me into this relationship and then you’re throwing me away.” 

I felt like men had all the power in the relationship, like the girl didn’t have any say-so. And then when I got into high school I was dating all these men, and I was just rejected and dumped over and over and over again. It was like, “The woman has no power! I’m just completely subject to whether a man wants me or not!”

Dannah: How many women that you met in the trans community who would have been transitioning to male do you think had really deeply painful experiences with men like that?

Laura: Sadly, I don’t even know, because we never talked about that. We really talked about our lives, most of the time, as if they had started when we became trans. Once in a while we would talk very vaguely about childhood, but not often. And that mostly was in the context of how hateful our parents were. But we rarely talked about our own pain.

Dannah: Tell me about your parents.

Laura: I grew up in a Christian household. As I look back, they were very, very different. I think it’s because they loved so differently. I look back, and I know now that my mother loved me. She did so much for me. She would just kill herself trying to do things for me, but she didn’t really ever spend a lot of time with me.

She was always kind of wanting me to go away and just leave her alone, let her work. She was very driven by work, where my dad would spend lots of time with me. My dad came almost every night and played games with me. He went to every soccer game and every swimming meet. He spent incredible amounts of time with me.

In fact, if he had to go to, like, to the auto parts store, he would come home way out of his way, pick me up, and take me with him. Then he would announce to whoever was in the store that I was his little angel. So there was this extreme difference in the way that my parents loved me.

I recognize now that both are love, but it was just received in such a different way. I had it in my head that Mom didn’t love me, because she wasn’t spending the time that Dad was.

Mary: So you got into a trans community where you were told that if you transitioned, it would be the answer to your pain, and you would be happy. That’s when you decided you would transition. Tell me, what were your first steps along that journey?

Laura: Well, first of all, I had to start by going to a psychologist. I had no interest in counseling at all, but that was a legal requirement at the time in order to begin transition. I had three mandatory sessions with this therapist, and in the third session she put down her notebook, she looked right in my eyes, and she said, “Wow! You really have issues with your mom!”

I was so stunned. I was like, “How did we get from me talking about being a man to talking about my mother?” I hadn’t seen the connection. I was very angry. I kind of blew up at her, and I said, “I’m not here to talk about my mom!”

And she said, “So, you just want this diagnosis.”

I said, “Yes! That’s all I’m here for!” 

And so she said, “Okay,” and she just gave me what I wanted, gave me this diagnosis of Gender Identity Disorder, which was what it was called before the activists changed it to “gender dysphoria.”

In fact, that was stated on the DSM website, which were the standards of care for transition. Activists were the ones that pressured them to change this to gender dysphoria, because they didn’t like it being called a mental disorder.

But I found out years later that she never even officially diagnosed me. I didn’t know that at the time. She gave me this letter stating that I had been diagnosed with Gender Identity Disorder, but she had never really turned it in as an official diagnosis.

As I started taking the testosterone, my voice began to get lower, and I began to grow facial hair. At first these changes were so exciting. Every little change was an affirmation of, “Yes! This is who I really am!” 

Then I had my name legally changed. There was always something to look forward to, this next step toward transition.

There were little things along the way where I would realize, “Okay, this is kind of fake. I’m doing these things to look like a man, and everybody’s believing it. I know I’m still trans . . . but one day this will be real.”

I didn’t want to be openly transgender. I really wanted to be a man. I wanted to completely erase the existence of Laura . . . which is funny. Here’s a quote I read earlier . . . they were talking about how trans people are saying, “We will not be erased!” And I’m like, “That’s exactly what they’re trying to do: erase the real person!” 

We’re the ones trying not to erase them. But I didn’t want any memory of Laura at all. In fact, it became difficult even to be around my parents and my family, because they were a reminder of the truth of who I was.

So I also want that to be an encouragement to parents and family members out there, if your kids who are identifying as trans are not wanting to be around you. There are a couple of battles going on: one, they don’t want to be reminded of their place in the family, of the memories, of who they truly are. But also, there is a spiritual battle. You have the Holy Spirit, and they’re likely dealing with demonic spirits. I know that I was, and I know that there is such a darkness. 

I’ve seen pictures of people before they transition, and then once they start transition, and there is such a darkness that comes over their eyes.

Dannah: For family members who have a brother, a sister, or a child transitioning, an uncle . . . it seems like a lot of family members push that person away. What you’re saying makes me think it might not be a good idea to do that.

Compassion-wise, I don’t know how I would ever do that to one of my children regardless of what they’re walking through. I can’t imagine, but I’ve never been in these shoes. Your parents didn’t do that; it must have been a hard road. But it sounds to me like what you’re saying is that it was good to be with them from the standpoint of transforming your mind, because it did remind you of who you are.

Laura: Yes, I was constantly reminded of who I really was. Just being around them would remind me that I was their daughter, and I didn’t like it very much. At the time I probably would have blamed it on the fact that they wouldn’t call me “Jake,” and they wouldn’t use the male pronouns. But the reality was, just being in their presence reminded me of the truth of who I was.

They didn’t have to say anything, because I had all the memories, there was always this internal knowledge. And, actually, there is so much going on in the mind of a trans person that nobody realizes, because they’ll never tell anybody . . . or at least most people.

So there was this constant reminder of who I really was. And I know a lot of that is the result of prayer, but I think some of it is just natural as well. You know, every time you look in the mirror, every time you go to the bathroom, there are so many daily reminders that what you are doing is fake.

But you always hope that it will be real one day, and that’s why you keep going. Then you get to a point where it reminds me of a seesaw. You’re sort of climbing up this hill, and you’re trying to get to this pinnacle. Well, one day it tips over, and it’s like you’re too far to go back the other way. You’re too far gone in a sense. “Well, I can’t turn back now!” And so you really believe that the only choice you have is to go forward.

Mary: You didn’t completely feel like a man, Laura, and yet you wanted to act like a man, so you pursued a relationship with a woman. Actually, she was a man who had transitioned to be a woman. It ended up being a close and loving relationship. Tell us about that.

Laura: Yes, it was interesting, because I think we were able to sort of affirm each other. We had this mutual understanding, I think. Because a lot of people don’t understand what transition is like, but we sort of “got” each other. But it was interesting the way the Lord used him.

Dannah: He was a biological “he,” but living as a “she,” right?

Laura: Yes. You know, this is an encouragement to parents. You get worried sometimes about the relationships that your kids have or something like that. You think, “Oh, they’re just going deeper into the lifestyle . . .

But, because of my parents’ prayers, everything that was happening in my life that seemed to be going deeper into the lifestyle, the Lord was using to turn me around and to draw me to Him. So my partner, actually—of all people—was one of the only ones that I’ve ever known in the lifestyle that was conservative.

Dannah: And by that you don’t mean theologically, you mean politically.

Laura: Yes, politically conservative. And regardless of the politics of our listeners, that’s not the point here. But what it did for me was, it really began to spark this interest in me of why he was willing to stand against the entire community!

They hated him, and they looked at him like a traitor, because it was like a sellout to be a conservative. But he didn’t care, because it was what he believed. And so it started me on this journey of seeking the truth . . . even though I really wasn’t seeking the truth about my identity. I was seeking the truth politically, to start with.

We started with talking about politics a lot, and eventually I just began to really seek the truth. This was years before I came out of the lifestyle. And then my partner was also like a mirror to me, because I could see the truth in him that I couldn’t see in myself.

I remember thinking, Why is this not real for him? It was so obvious that he was a man dressing as a woman, and he was putting on wigs and makeup, the pretty shoes and all these things, but he was not a woman!

Dannah: Was he in touch with his family?

Laura: No. Well, this was interesting, actually, because he was really cut off from his family. His mom had died when he was seven. In fact, he told me later that that was probably where a lot of his transgender feelings came from.

He was the oldest of four boys, and I think he sort of assumed the mother role. It was a very traumatic loss. His dad died when he was nineteen or twenty, and his brothers were spread out all over the world. 

But one brother that he had been closest to in childhood showed up on our doorstep one day, out of the blue! So Steve hurried to shed the female clothing and everything. I could tell after that that Steve really began to lose interest in the transgender identity. Now, he didn’t admit it for a very long time.

Dannah: But you’re saying that that was a result of interacting with his brother.

Laura: Yes. I think it reminded him of the truth, and I think it was a connection he was starving for! You know, his family had been just split apart for so long, and it’s like it reminded him—or maybe it gave him that identity of being his brother’s brother, you know what I mean? It sort of called forth that true identity.

When he was completely disconnected from his family, he could have this other identity, but when all of a sudden that was reintroduced, it’s like it brought him out. And he started getting into all the things his brother was into, and he was becoming less and less feminine, even though he didn’t actually detransition until after I did. So it was still many years.

Dannah: So he also ended up detransitioning? 

Laura: He did, about a year and a half after I did. But even back then (this was only a year or two into our nine-year journey), he quit wearing the wig, and he really was dressing barely female. He was buying his clothes in the women’s section, but they were almost gender neutral.

Mary: You know what is so interesting to me about all this Laura, is hearing how God is present in your story and how He is working through His circumstances in your life and through the prayers of your mom and dad and aunt. 

Maybe they felt desperate. Maybe they felt God wasn’t doing anything because on the surface it seemed like you were enmeshing yourself deeper and deeper into the trangender lifestyle. And yet, somehow, God was working through it all. It’s amazing to me that God pursues us regardless of the choices we make. He doesn’t give up on us, even when we spurn Him and walk away.

He pursued a relationship with you, Laura, and He did that long before He began to convict you about your lifestyle. 

How did you turn the corner? When did you begin to see that God was real and that He wanted a relationship with you?

Laura: Well, it started really early on, actually. I look back, and I’m amazed at how much God was drawing me! I didn’t even realize it until after I came out of the lifestyle and I started telling my story. I started remembering all these ways that God was pursuing me.

I remember I was having all these dreams—not like I was hearing His voice speaking to me, but just where He was reminding me of the truth all time. I had dreams of being left behind when Jesus comes back and all these things.

I really had this fear, this knowing that I was not right with God, but not really wanting to be. I wanted to go my own way. But one of the most powerful ways was, I had this dream one time. I dreamed that my niece had fallen down the stairs and cracked her head open (she was like two years old) and had died. I woke up, and I was sobbing and sobbing and sobbing.

It took me like two hours to realize this was a dream, this wasn’t real, this didn’t actually happen. But I felt compelled to pray for her . . . and I was not praying at the time. But I had grown up in a Christian household, so I thought, I should pray for her.

And two days later she fell down the stairs and hit her head and cracked it open . . . but she lived. I was like, “Wow, I think God told me this so I would pray for her.” So there were these things early on where God was still intervening in my life and still using circumstances.

I had another time a year into my transition where I was listening to all this horrible music. I remember my dad felt so disappointed, because he found my stash of CDs. I had Godsmack and Metallica and Nirvana and all these horrible bands that I was listening to at the time.

I remember one day getting so angry at this. I said, “I’m so tired of this music! It’s making me so angry. I can’t stand being angry all the time!” And so I turned it off, I just flipped the station, but the Christian music came on for the first time in years, and I started weeping uncontrollably! The presence of God filled my car! 

And this was like a year into a nine-year journey, but God was pursuing me, and He never let me go. All throughout this time, He’s intervening in my life. I remember another time when I was listening to a radio program that I had been listening to for years, and the host was not really against the LGBT lifestyle; he was very kind of libertarian.

But he asked this question one day: “Why is it that transgenders always want to change their body to match their mind, and not just change their mind to match their body?” And I remember I didn’t know how to answer that question. I was so mad at that question, because I didn’t want to admit that that was possible. I remember, I couldn’t get it out of my head!

I just kept wrestling and wrestling with this question; I remember being so angry at the possibility that it was even possible to change your mind instead of changing your body.

Dannah: You know, as you say that, I think for a number of years Johns Hopkins University stopped doing sex reassignment surgery, because they kept seeng that over and over again in the transgender community. They would fix somebody’s body to be the gender that that person wanted, and none of the things that were broken were actually repaired . . . their bodies was just changed.

They just stopped the surgeries altogether. I should say, in full disclosure, that they’re doing the surgeries again now; but for a great period of time—many years—they stopped, for this very reason. 

Mary: But, Laura, you felt happy at one point when you finally left behind all the physical vestiges of womanhood and embraced a male identity.

Laura: It was such a paradox, because yes, I was happy in a sense. I was happy with the identity; I was happy with the lifestyle. But it was always more of this perceived happiness that I would have one day. It was like, “One day this will all be real, and now I’m just working towards that goal.”

But I kept realizing that the surgeries weren’t making it real. I remember, I finally had this job where I was only known as male, and I thought, Finally! The only people that knew were my family and my partner, and I was in very little contact with my family.

And so it was like, “Now that nobody knows, I can just be a man. I can just get on with my life, and I can leave all this in the past.” But I remember, I started to be haunted, trying to keep up this identity. It was constant; it took a great amount of effort to keep this up.

I would be telling a story about childhood and would think, Wait a minute, I couldn’t have been in Girl Scouts, I’d have to have been in Boy Scouts. I couldn’t have played softball, it had to have been baseball. I wasn’t supposed to have been dating boys; they think I’m just a straight man.

I accidentally told this huge story one time to my boss about an ex-boyfriend, and she just looked so confused! As much as I was happy in a sense, it also became a living hell.

Dannah: Enough so that you decided to detransition.

Laura: Yes. Well, it wasn’t the dissatisfaction with the lifestyle that led me toward detransitioning, because I still didn’t want to be a girl. Everybody thinking that I was a man and me living as a man was still better than the female identity. I didn’t want to be seen as female.

It really was not until God got hold of my heart, and He began to transform me and He began to pursue me that He really led me toward to detransitioning and returning to who He created me to be. I finally realized it was because He had created me, and only He could define who I was.

There’s a verse, Isaiah 29:16, that says, “Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the [thing that was made] say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?” (KJV).

That’s kind of the point I got to. It was like, “Well, I can either identify with how God has made me to be, or I can continue to define myself,” but I knew that it was never going to be real.

Mary: Laura, you came to know the Lord; you came to know Him as “Jake.” When He called you and drew you to faith in Jesus, you were “Jake.” And then you began to grow spiritually, but it took a while before you were convicted and came to the point where you realized you needed to deal with the question of your sexual identity . . . the fact that you viewed yourself as male. Tell us how that happened.

Laura: Yes, I was convicted on and off throughout the whole time. It was about a year-and-a-half between when I got saved and when I detransitioned.

Dannah: Let me stop there for a second, because a lot of people are going to find that hard to believe.

Mary: Yeah, very difficult.

Dannah: So, tell us. How genuine was that surrender? It was real . . . you just didn't have all the things figured out yet.

Laura: Yes, right, when I got saved I had this incredible encounter where I knew without any shadow of a doubt that I had been saved. I knew that I was a brand-new creature. My heart was completely transformed! 

I went back to work and all I wanted to do was hear these hymns, and these Scriptures and everything came flooding back. I called my mom to tell her what had happened, and she knew just from that phone call I was changed!

I remember that night . . . I had been watching all kinds of horror movies and stuff at night, and I remember being convicted that night and going, “Oh! God’s going to change me now!” I knew I couldn’t keep watching these movies, and that was the first thing I remember. 

I knew that I had truly been saved and that the Spirit of God had come in me. I knew I was never going to be the same. I was convicted early on about the lifestyle I was living, but I didn’t know what to do about it. 

I stopped watching the pornography, and I was sort of trying to clean up my life. I was trying to do everything I could but deal with this transgender identity . . . because I really didn’t think there was anything I could do about it. I felt like I was stuck.

I was listening to an audio Bible or a Christian teaching of some kind literally all day long, every day. God was pouring His Word into me. One of my life verses is Psalm 107:20. It says, “He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions” (KJV). 

And so, as God was pouring the Word into me I was getting more and more convicted, and I realized after a while that I couldn’t just twist one or two verses to kind of fit whatever I believed. You know, the whole Bible was telling me that I couldn’t be transgender.

Because, again, the whole Bible is about that God is Creator, that He is Lord and Master. We are to follow Him, and He loves and He cherishes us, and He wants a relationship with us, but it’s got to be on His terms.

But I kept shoving the conviction under the rug. I was getting mad at God at one point, because it was like, “What am I supposed to do!? Just show up at work in a dress and say, ‘Just kidding! I’m really a girl. Sorry. Sorry I’ve lied to you all for four years.’” I mean, they didn’t even know I was trans!

Dannah: And what do you do with your partner? These are deep, deep issues in your heart that needed to be sacrificed. 

Laura: Right!

Mary: Laura, I just want to rewind the tape here back to the point where you actually decided to come to Christ. You were living the trans lifestyle, you were presenting yourself to the world as a man. Your boss and the people you were working with thought you were a man. You were in a relationship with a trans woman.

Then, your mom asked you to help her with a website for her Bible study, and the Word of God began to work in your heart. At what point was it that you said “yes” to Jesus? Do you remember that moment?

Laura: Yes, it was actually a process of a couple of months where He really was beginning to draw me out of it. Really, at one point, I think I got delivered of a demonic spirit. There was just a night and day difference in my thinking. It was like my eyes were opened, it was like the apostle Paul when the scales fell off his eyes (see Acts 9:18).

I was so convinced that I couldn’t be transgender anymore that I signed . . . The American Family Association (I had been listening to American Family Radio) had a boycott against Target because of their bathroom policies.

They were just allowing anybody to go into any restroom, regardless of actually transitioning. They could just say, “I’m a woman today,” and walk into the women’s restroom. And I actually signed their “boycott Target” pledge, because I knew that I could not be transgender anymore, but I didn’t know what to do about it.

I couldn’t be female again in my mind, so it was like I was desperately hoping that somehow God would let me just sort of forget all that and live as if I was a man. But He kept drawing my heart. I remember at one point, I called my mom one day to ask her what she was teaching in her Bible study.

She’d been teaching on the judgment seat of Christ, and I was so convicted! I went home and I threw myself on the floor; I knew I was not quite right with God. As much as I was zealous for the Lord and I was sharing my faith with my friends, I knew I was still living for my own flesh in a lot of ways.

So I said, “God, what do You want from me?! I want to hear, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant.’ What do I need to change?” And the Lord asked me a question; He said: “If you stood before me tonight, what name would I call?”

Laura: And I said, “Wait a minute, that’s not fair! I know I messed up. I know that I shouldn’t have transitioned, but it’s kind of late now!” But I knew that He was not going to call me Jake. He reminded me of John chapter 1 where Scripture says, “Jesus Christ Himself is the Creator.” (see v. 3)

And He said,”You cannot claim to love Me and yet reject my creation.” And there was a moment where I thought I was being condemned. I thought, There’s no hope for me! If God doesn’t see me as Jake then there’s no hope, because I can’t go back to being Laura. There was so much pain there, and I didn’t even know why.

I really did not understand any of the issues that had led up to this. When I went into this lifestyle I really believed that I was just a man trapped in a woman’s body. I knew every time I thought about being a girl, it was like a knife through my heart! So I thought I was being condemned.

But in the most loving voice that I have ever heard in all my life, He whispered to me and He said, “Let me tell you who you are.” And that’s what began to free me. I realized that He had defined me and created me with a plan and a purpose . . . with an identity. I wasn’t just here because of biology. I was here because He created a specific person.

And that’s what God’s Word says, that we were created for good works in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world. (see Eph. 1:4, 2:10) [Dannah agrees.] So I knew that no matter what I did to my body, no matter who I said I was, I was never going to be anybody other than who God created me to be. But I still didn’t know how to fix it.

Mary: That brings to mind Psalm 139, the familiar prayer where David says to the Lord,

You formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother's womb. I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are your works; my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in the depths of the earth. Your eyes saw my unformed substance (vv. 13–16 ESV).

You know, it’s astonishing how intimately God knows us even before we’re born, and how carefully and how intentionally He knits us together. 

Dannah: I think the One who designed us gets to define us. That’s what Laura’s testimony declares. I know that at some point, Laura, you came into contact with a copy of True Woman 101, a Bible study that was written by our dear Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth and . . . the one and only Mary Kassian, here with us today. 

So I’d love to hear how that helped in the transformation of your thought process.

Laura: When I first came home out of the lifestyle, I was doing it to obey Christ, but I had no interest in being a woman. I was doing it out of obedience, but it was still very, very painful. But I realized once the trangender lie broke, I was going through the motions. 

I was in a discipleship group with other girls, and I was trying really hard, but I just still didn’t feel like I fit in with women. It was still like, “This is just my cross to bear. This is my sacrifice for the Lord.” But in this discipleship group they were going to do this study, Divine Design, True Woman 101. And I have to be honest, at first I didn’t want to do it. I was not interested in hearing about biblical womanhood.

Dannah: If you had a dime every time you heard that about a book you’ve written, Mary! 

Mary: Yes, exactly! I’d be a rich woman!

Dannah: That happens a lot!

Laura: I remember looking at this book, and you should read my notes from the first chapter. They were like, “This question is so dumb!” and “This doesn’t fit me!” and blah, blah, blah. But as I started to read it, my heart began to be changed. The Lord began to show me how beautiful it is to be a woman, and how special it is and what it represents.

I think I remember especially reading about how men and women display the gospel and the perfect complementarity of them. That’s really what began to change my heart. I began to see that God’s design of woman is good--no matter what the world says.

Mary: It’s funny, Laura, as you’re speaking, I can’t help but think of my own journey. I believed in my head that God’s plan and design for womanhood was right long before I felt in my deepest heart of hearts that it was also good and beautiful.

Intellectually, I chose to believe what God said, because He’s God and I’m not, but emotionally I wasn’t totally on board with the whole womanhood thing. But I remember the moment that changed. 

I was sitting at my desk meditating on a particular passage of Scripture, and the Holy Spirit opened my eyes to grasp how deeply God cherishes women and how He created womanhood to be a precious and amazing part of His story!

The Lord impressed on me that day that, ultimately, who I am as a woman is not about me, it’s about displaying the glory of the gospel and about telling the story of Jesus. That was a profound moment. In an instant, I was overwhelmed with the beauty and the holiness of God’s design, and I began to weep and weep!

That encounter changed me because, from that moment on, not only did I believe that God’s way was right, I was also convinced that it was beautiful and good. 

You know, in our culture we constantly bump up against a negative view of women and womanhood. We hear lies about womanhood and lies about the patriarchal system that keeps us oppressed.

We’re told that we need to fight men or be like men or that men have more value than we as women do, and we pick up all sorts of negative beliefs about womanhood from our culture and from living in a broken world. And when Christ begins to unpack that and peel back the layers, it can be eye opening, and it can be painful, but also healing and redemptive.

Tell me more, Laura, about how God began to open your eyes and minister to you with regard to who you are as a woman.

Laura: Yes, I remember even taking small steps. You know I’m not married and wasn’t at the time either. So I didn’t have a husband, but I was working at the church. So I thought, Well, I’m going to practice some of these things on our male ministers. You know, respecting them, affirming their leadership and their authority and encouraging them.

As I began to do those things, I began to see the fruit of that and how that was. I was being respected more. There was such a peace in me, and I began to have this great joy at seeing them step up as men and not being beaten down by the women. So it really began to affirm everything I had been reading.

I began to really understand that we get love from men, not by trying to be better than them, not by by trying to prove ourselves above them. I see this, and it grieves me now. I see it in so many relationships on TV or when we’re just out in public. 

I saw this couple the other day in the airport. This woman is telling this man everything, what to do. He is following her like a whipped puppy, like he has no say in the matter, and she is correcting him on everything. And I’m like, “These women are so broken; they’re wanting so desperately to be loved and yet they’re overstepping their authority. They’re trying to bring men down so that they can be raised up, but it’s the opposite of what we need!” 

I found that as I encouraged men and as I affirmed them, that they would lift me up in turn. And so it became this beautiful representation of what I think God designed with Adam and Eve.

Dannah: Yes, let’s go back to Adam and Eve. I want to go back to the beginning, because, honestly, that’s what Jesus did. When He was walking through the streets, some Pharisees came up to Him to try to trap Him. There was what I would call a revolution of the day, which would be the divorce revolution. You know, we’re kind of in the transgender revolution right now.

And when they tried to trap Him, Jesus said, “In the beginning . . . go back to the beginning. What did I design, what did I intend?” (see Mt. 19) And so I want to read a verse in the beginning, way back, Genesis 1:27, the first chapter of the Bible. I want to hear both your thoughts on this.

“So God created [human beings] in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.” Mary, what do we need to know about that verse?

Mary: That verse in Genesis chapter 1 gives us a broad-picture overview of the dignity and quality of male and female created in God’s image for His glory. Genesis 1 tells us that we were created to have dominion over the world and that we share that mission equally.

Then in Genesis chapter 2, we start to see some differences between the two sexes. So Genesis chapter 1 discusses the creation of humanity as a whole and our fundamental equality, but chapter 2 provides a zoomed-in replay that reveals essential differences in God’s creation of the two sexes.

And both narratives are important; both are vital parts of the message. Part One: we’re in this together as humans. God views male and female as an equal, united, indivisible whole. We’re the same.

Part Two: God created us differently. Male and female are not carbon copies of one another. We’re complementary beings.Maleness and femaleness are not the same, and they’re not interchangeable. God created us uniquely male or uniquely female, and we’re not the same, nor should we ever try to be the same.

Dannah: Laura, what comes to your mind when you hear that verse, as a wonderful woman of God (that’s going to be my bio for Laura Perry; that’s what I’m going with) who has suffered through the pain of transgenderism and transitioning back to being female. What does that verse mean for you?

Laura: I think now that I’m on this side of it and I understand that God’s design is better and that I could never recreate myself. I see the beauty in what He created because God didn’t have to create male and female. 

I actually meditated on that one time. “God could have just created a bunch of asexual beings. Why did He create male and female?”

Dannah: I want to ask. Why did He?

Laura: I think for a lot of reasons. One, I think, is to put the gospel on display as Mary talked about and as they talk about in their book—to represent God being reunited with man! But I also think it’s to symbolize this great longing for something that’s missing.

Like, if we lose part of our body . . . For example, I’ve heard of people who have had a leg or an arm amputated or something. There’s this phantom pain, and you long to have that member of your body back. I think there’s this great longing for one another. It actually fosters, I think, a great desire for love. That wouldn’t be there if we were all just one sex.

There’s such a cheap counterfeit that Satan offers, just like you mentioned earlier, Dannah, with this [having] sex as opposed to making love in that true intimate connection. I think there’s a huge difference there, when you’re really imparting your soul.

Dannah: Of course the gospel, that’s one of the reasons why maybe God created us distinctly male and female. Mary, do you think in some ways it may also be a reflection of Him being a social being?

Mary: Absolutely! God is a social being. In the relationship between the members of the Trinity, we see a deep unity. God is One. At the same time, the Bible reveals that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit interact in distinctive ways. I think that God created male and female as an object lesson, a story so to speak, to reveal truths to us about God’s nature and character.

Romans chapter 1, which is a passage of Scripture that deals with sexuality and sexual ethics, says, “For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes . . . have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made” (vv. 19–20).

Of course, we know that the epitome of Creation was God’s creation of male and female. So, Romans 1 implies that humanity as male and female makes what can be known about God plain. Gender and sexuality were created to tell a plain and accurate story about God.

When we deal with a hot cultural topic like transgenderism, we always need to go back to what the Bible says. There are things that the Bible says about male and female, and there are things that the Bible does not say about male and female. 

I think that sometimes we start putting together a false narrative about what a man or a woman is, and that’s actually the narrative that transgenders are trying to live up to. If you have painted fingernails, false eyelashes, long hair, wigs, high heels, shapely breasts, if you have the right curves and the right feminine mannerisms, then you are a woman.

This narrative was put on display a few years ago when a man who had transitioned and taken on all these external cultural feminine characteristics was actually named Woman of the Year. So I think we need to be extremely careful when we talk about masculinity and femininity to stick with what God’s Word says about male and female and not to make stuff up! Because being female isn’t about matching a certain cultural stereotype.

Dannah: Not make stuff up! I don’t have to wear pink!

Mary: I don’t have to wear pink! I can be out in my garage and build things with my power tools. I’m a good electrician.

Dannah: I like driving my farm tractor.

Mary: Well, there you go. So biblical femininity is not about embracing all the external stereotyped cultural trappings of womanhood. Rather, it’s about getting to the core of who God created us to be. The Bible challenges biological females to discover who God created them to be as women, and biological males to discover who God created them to be as men.

Laura, when you were wrestling with that, working your way through the Divine Design Bible study, what part was it that jumped out at you so that you began to recognize, “Yes, that resonates with who I am!”

Laura: Actually, I think the earliest part of it that really began to change my thinking--was when it was talking about who a man truly is. I remember reading that and going, “That is different than me!” That chapter was actually before it really gets into women.

I think there’s such a beauty in that, because as I have begun to recognize how good man was, and that wasn’t me, I began to desire to have that relationship, rather than desiring to be that myself, because I recognized that wasn’t me.

Nancy: All the credit for the transformation that took place in Laura Perry’s life goes to the Lord, but what a privilege it is for Revive Our Hearts to play a part in that story, to be one of the tools that He used in bringing her back to Himself. Laura will be back in just a moment to pray.

Dannah: Before that, Nancy, I have something burning in my heart, and it’s this: the study that helped Laura see what men and women are meant to be like is True Woman 101: Divine Design. Of course, Nancy, you and Mary Kassian wrote that study together specifically to counter the lies and misconceptions about what it really means to be a man or a woman with the truth of what God’s Word has to say.

Here’s what’s burning in my heart: first of all, every woman listening needs this study right now, because we need to be theologically grounded in the truth of what God’s Word says about being a woman.

But more than that, I want to plead with you. If you have a teen daughter or granddaughter or you’re a small group leader for youth or college-age women, we need to take them through this study! Yes, it’s written for women, but they are fully capable of digesting this rich spiritual meat. We must provide it to them because they’re on the front line of this battle! This issue is only going to get harder, and we need to equip them.

So whether you’d like to brush up on what God’s Word says about being a woman for yourself or you feel the burden to take a group of young women or peers through the study, it’s available at ReviveOurHearts.com. Just call us at 1–800–569–5959 and ask about the Bible study True Woman 101: Divine Design.

Nancy: Though that study was written a number of years ago, I think it has never been more needed and more relevant than it is today. And if you’re interested in reading more about Laura Perry’s story, her book is called Transgender to Transformed. It’s available today as a thank-you gift from us when you make a donation of any amount to support the outreaches of Revive Our Hearts.

Again, you can make that donation at ReviveOurHearts.com, or by calling us at 1–800–569–5959. And when you make your gift, be sure and ask for a copy of Laura’s book, and we’ll be glad to send that to you.

So, should the family members of someone who has embraced a transgender identity call him a “her,” or her a “him”? And what should you say to someone who says, “I was born this way!” Well, those are just two of the practical questions that Mary and Dannah and Laura will tackle tomorrow on Revive Our Hearts. I hope you’ll join us. Dannah?

Dannah: I’m thinking right now of the woman who is listening who is not comfortable with who she is as a female, or maybe even the transgendered male who is listening and feels an echo of God’s call deep in her heart, or the grandma who is praying for that sweet one, or the mom who wets her pillow with tears every night. 

Laura, I wonder if you might pray over them, that they would find the peace that I can see is on your beautiful, beautiful face. I have to say, I can hardly imagine you as a man! You are a cute, beautiful, glowing woman! And I can see the light of Christ just shining out of you!

Laura: It’s such a miracle! I look at my own story and I’m honestly just blown away at what God has done. It’s been almost five years since I left the lifestyle, and I would have honestly never believed I would be at this point. I didn’t think I’d ever look like a girl again; I didn’t think I’d ever feel like a girl again.

I honestly just left the lifestyle to be obedient to Christ, and then I’m blown away by what He has done! But I’ve found that the more that I trust Him, the more that I walk by faith, the more that I surrendered all and laid it all down for Him, the more that He has proven Himself faithful!

Dannah: What a gift of hope! Why don’t you pray that over us?

Laura: So, Heavenly Father, we just thank You for everyone who is listening right now. I thank You, Lord, that they are all here by Your divine appointment for one reason or another. You make no mistakes! I pray that this program would be a great encouragement to them. 

Lord, for those that are struggling, maybe they would see some hope, that they would see that they can return to who You created them to be, that they are not too far gone, that You can heal all the brokenness and woundedness inside . . . even as I forgot to mention that You have completely redeemed and restored my relationship with my mother. You’ve given me a great love for her and for women, and You have truly restored the years the locusts have eaten. 

I pray that those who are praying for their loved ones will have that hope, that they will not give up on their loved ones, that they will not give up on who they are praying for, as that person that God created.

Help them to stand strong and not to embrace the ideology of the devil to agree with the lies, but to stand firm in faith and love and compassion. Lord, give them the strength to walk this hard road of love and truth. I just pray that You would encourage us all and draw us all closer into that relationship with You. Heal all of our brokenness in those areas, Lord, where we don’t quite trust You with who You made us to be. I pray that You’d bring further and deeper healing, in Jesus’ name, amen. 

Revive Our Hearts with Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth wants to help you value the way God made you. We’re an outreach of Life Action Ministries.

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