Real Comfort for Your Deepest Sorrows, with Tim Challies

’Tis the season of joy and celebration, but it can also be a season of deep sorrow. Hear from Tim Challies about God's comfort in loss on this moving Grounded episode.

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Episode Notes

50 State Prayer Project website 

Seasons of Sorrow book by Tim Challies 

“Championing Joy in the Midst of Hard Times” video 

Support Revive Our Hearts’ international teams with a #GivingTuesday donation

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Dannah Gresh: ’Tis the season. You know, most of the time when we say those words, we are communicating about the joy of the season, the traditions of the season, the expectations of the season. But some of us are facing a very difficult kind of season right now. I'm Dannah Gresh, and this is Grounded.

Portia Collins: And I'm Portia Collins, and that resonates very deeply with me, Dannah. The holiday season is definitely upon us, but that doesn't mean that everything is merry and bright. I guess the question is, where can you turn for comfort if you are in a season of deep sorrow?

Dannah: Yeah. Or where do you turn for advice if you have a friend who's in a season of deep sorrow. We're glad you're with us today, because we've planned an episode just for that. Tim Challies is with us. I have long admired this man as a writer. He is a great Christian thinker. But in 2020, Tim and his family experienced very deep and unexpected grief, right about this time of year. He's here to help you see how you can pass through times of grief; with two things we'd love to hand out here on Grounded some hope and some perspective. 

Portia: Yep, that's it. This might be a sad episode. I'm gonna tell you guys it’s full transparency. I have my tissues here. Right? I have. Yes. I have been very weepy this holiday season. So, it might be a sad, sad episode, but I am confident that this is also going to be a powerful episode. 

I also know that those of you watching have women in your life who need to see this episode. So, I want to tell you right now, go ahead and hit the share button or send that text message out or send the link out. Do whatever you need to do to go ahead and bring some other sisters in so that they can hear this. And while you're doing that, I want to introduce our first guest this morning. It's time for some good news. 

Well, today's good news correspondent is Marylee Bell, and you're gonna love hearing her tell today's good news story in her own words. Welcome to Grounded Marylee.

Marylee Bell: Thank you so much, Portia. It's a delight to be here.

Portia: So happy to have you. I hear that it all started with lunch. Take us back to the moment you met with a couple of friends and God gave you a big vision.

Marylee: That's exactly right. It's amazing how the Lord works in just the ordinariness of our lives. I just invited two girls over to the house for lunch. As we were talking, fifteen minutes into lunch, one of the girls said, “I have this idea that I think is of the Lord. We should organize a fifty-state prayer project.” It's outrageous, right? I mean, how could we three little old ladies, literally, we're in our sixties from South Dakota, organize this and make it happen. But we felt called to do it. It was amazing how the Lord obviously blessed our obedience. We just went forward a day at a time, a step at a time, following His lead. 

We started in May, the end of May. And by December 1 of last year, six months later, not even, we had a commitment from people praying in every single state. What we had prepared was a program that took you through the entire Book of Proverbs and the entire Book of Psalms. There are thirty-one days of preparation in December in Proverbs, and then fifty days of intercession in Psalms. 

It was just an amazing experience. We were just floored. It was through Facebook.

Portia: Look, I was gonna say, I'm floored already. Listen, I'm known for big bright ideas, big, overwhelming bright ideas.

Marylee: Our thought was that we would just prepare it, and then somebody with a nationwide network, like, National Day of Prayer, or Franklin Graham would take it over and do it. And that didn't happen. We offered it to them free of any strings attached. And you know, people are busy with their own programs, and so on. 

So, it was amazing that by the time we were finished, we had we reached over three million people on Facebook, and our website had clicks from over thirty-five countries around the world.

Portia: Wow, over three million. You guys probably could have never imagined when you sat down at lunch that this is what God was going to do. 

Wow, wow. So, tell me what starts on December 1 of this year, what's going on?

Marylee: December 1 is the first day of preparation. We have thirty-one days of preparation in the month of December. Every day has a daily devotion with it. We all together across the country read a chapter together of Proverbs. We basically are spending the month of December examining our hearts, getting grounded in the Word, learning about the armor of God, learning about how powerful prayer is. 

I mean, we forget that the power of prayer is divinely powered. It's not what we say. It's the fact that we lift our whimpered private cries to the Lord, and He empowers it with Him for the tearing down of strongholds. And isn't that what we all need in our lives as well as the life of our nation?

Portia: Yes, absolutely. Okay, so one last quick question. I know our Grounded sisters are wanting to get involved. How can we get involved?

Marylee: Yes. The first thing you can do is go to the website IfWeWill.com. And then there you can click on a free PDF button for the download of the workbook. There are links so that you can purchase it if you like. Some people prefer it purchased, but you can view it for free and participate with us. We just encourage you to join us in this amazing journey.

Portia: Oh, perfect. Thank you so much for being with us today, Marylee. I'm excited. What a good way to go ahead and prep our hearts for the new year, you know, so I'm excited. 

Marylee: Thank you. Thank you so much for the opportunity. It's amazing, and blessings to you as you wake up with revival. We believe there's a window of revival spreading across this country, so be encouraged.

Portia: Amen. Amen. Thank you. 

Marylee: Thank you. 

Portia: Well, now it's time for Dannah to come.

Dannah: I’m here. 

Portia: You’ve got some good stuff coming up. 

Dannah: I’m thinking if you're having lunch with a friend this week . . . Well, it makes me want to have lunch with a friend this week. 

Portia: Right. 

Dannah: You gotta be careful what you talk about. You might be leading a ministry one year from now. That's really exciting. I love that story. Well, it's time to get grounded with God's people. We have our featured guest of the day. Tim Challies is a Canadian theologian and pastor. He was an early adopter of the format we know as the blog and because he was at the forefront, he gained prominence and lots of us follow him. Maybe you do. I know this, after today you're gonna want to. Tim, welcome to Grounded.

Tim Challies: Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.

Dannah: We are delighted. A few of us are fan-girling because we do follow you. We love what you bring to the body of Christ; you are a blessing.

Hey, Tim, in addition to all those credentials I mentioned earlier, you’re a dad, and I want to talk about one of your children, Nick. I wonder if you would take us back a few years to the fall of 2020. It was a little bit unusual for all of us. Where was your son? And what was he up to in life?

Tim: Yeah, in the fall of 2020, Nick was a seminary student at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky. He was just newly engaged to his fiancée, Ryn, and he was heading toward the final part of his studies. He was then looking forward. His dream was to return back to Canada to pastor a small church somewhere here in his home homeland. But the Lord saw fit to just very suddenly and very unexpectedly called Nick to Himself at that time. That was a great shock to the family, of course, a great shock to us.

Dannah: Yeah, I remember where I was when that news came. I was praying with a group of friends that I pray with frequently, Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth and a few others, when one of them heard the news. We quickly began praying for you, interceding, asking the Lord to give you grace. How did God give you grace when you received that news?

Tim: In so many ways, God was so present with us and so faithful, just true to every one of His promises. When He promises He'll never leave us nor forsake us, He didn't leave us. He didn't forsake us. When He promises He'll be with us in our sorrows, He really was with us in our sorrows. 

We knew God was present with the Spirit. Of course, just that deep sense that God was present with us. God was present through the Word just as that Word came to our minds or we read it in Scriptures or people brought it to us, God was present. 

And then, God was present through His people. He very quickly dispatched His people to come to be with us and to, as much as anything, bring truth. They just reminded us of the great truths that we as Christians are so dependent on and those great truths that we love so much and that we need and cling to in our sorrows.

Dannah: Can you tell me what were some of the things the gifts—the Scripture gifts or truth gifts—that really left a mark or helped you through?

Tim: Yeah, many people came with just a verse here and a verse there and each one of them true. In times of sorrow, you need something to anchor yourself to when everything seems disoriented, everything seems confusing. You need to anchor yourself to something. And really, what you need to anchor yourself to are those unassailable truths that God makes so clear in His Word. 

I think personally, for me more than anything, it was the Psalm 23, that passage so many of us turn to in our times of deep joy and deep sorrow, but focusing on the Good Shepherd there in Psalm 23. The Word says, “Even though I pass through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for You are with me.” And just the sense that as we're passing through this, this valley of the shadow of death, God was with us. 

In fact, God had led us through this. This was His will, His purpose for us, and we could cling tightly to Him and really rely on Him.

Dannah: So, I want to ask what Christmas was like that year, because we have sisters who are facing their first Christmas, without someone in their family, there's going to be an empty seat at the table. How can you help them prepare for what they're going to be experiencing?

Tim: We see our losses most deeply, most clearly in those times when there is an empty seat, or there is one less stocking hanging by the fire, or however you mark the season. You can maybe not focus on it at other times, but in the holiday season, it's just so present with you. All we need to do is to turn to the Lord and really in that time to choose to find joy. The truths of Christmas are as true in our great sorrows as they are in our great joys—to be able to focus on the incarnation of Jesus Christ, the One who brings us hope. 

Without Christmas, we'd have no hope in our losses, we'd be full of despair, and rightly so. There'd be no reason to have hope. But because Christ entered into this world, because He was willing to come to be born and then live a perfect life and die that atonement, our hope is found there. So, choosing to find joy, even amidst the sorrows, not joys that push out the sorrows, but joys that rest alongside the sorrow. So, you're feeling both.

Dannah: I wonder what advice you might have for some of us who we aren't experiencing that kind of grief in our own families, but we have friends who are. What's something that we can do that can be helpful, because I know so many times in our lack of experience, we do things that hurt more than help. What advice you have for us.

Tim: I think one of the things we all fear in our times of grief is that our loved one will be forgotten. And if our loved one is forgotten, we wonder if their life was really significant or meaningful. 

So, what we found so encouraging to us is when people just bring memories. You don't have to worry that you'll be making your loved one sad, they're already sad. 

So, you're not going to bring sorrow into their lives. They're already sorrowful, but what you can do is bring joy by bringing memories, just loving memories, fond memories, funny memories. Just speak about those things that you loved, and they loved.

I think that just reminds us that we aren't the only people who loved our loved one. We're not the only people who miss him, but other people do as well. I think that's been a tremendous blessing and encouragement to us, and I'm sure others would attest the same.

Dannah: It makes me want to ask because so many of us did feel like we journeyed through this with you, what's a sweet memory you have of your son, Nick.

Tim: The memory I cling to is really my final memory at that time we spent two weeks together right before. This was in the time of COVID. We had to cross the border as Canadians. So, we were forced into this two-week isolation quarantine once we got to the U.S. And so, I spent two weeks with Nick and with Abby in a borrowed basement apartment and just had some lovely times together. There was nowhere to go, nothing to do. 

And so, we just spent time together playing games and having fun. And then when that time was up, I took them to campus. My final memory of Nick is just him walking away hand in hand with his girl that he had hoped to marry. That one is very precious and very close to my heart.

Dannah: What a precious memory and what a gift from the Lord, that a quarantine would turn out to be treasure for you. 

Tim: God is very good. He's very good at redeeming hardships. And that's exactly what he did. It was just such a precious time, the two of us together there in that borrowed basement somebody had so kindly let us stay in their place. And you know, just such good memories.

Dannah: I want to ask, I feel like a lot of people are probably wondering, how is Ryn doing?

Tim: Ryn is still very much a part of our family. We love her dearly. She spends time with us whenever we go down to Louisville, or she often comes up here. I think she's doing well, I think she, like us, in adjusting to her loss and just making plans for the future again. For a time life goes on pause. But she's nothing if not optimistic and peppy. We know what Nick loved about her, and we love that about her too. So, she's doing well. We're just so thankful that she continues to be part of our lives. That would have been a double loss had that not been the case.

Dannah: Yes, right, but a gift. Well, you are what I would call a cathartic writer. I can tell when you're writing that you're processing. I tend to be that way too when I write. And you've written a book for us, Seasons of Sorrow: The Pain of Loss and the Comfort of God. Tell us about that.

Tim: The very evening that Nick died, I started writing. I started writing partly the blog posts you referenced earlier, just telling people what had happened. But also, just for my own purposes. Writing is just how I think, how I process life's events. 

And over that first year, I wrote an awful lot. As the year went on, I started to think, Well, maybe I could take this writing and turn it into something. Some of it had been placed on the blog, a lot of it had been kept private. But as the year progressed, I thought, Well, maybe there's a book here that would just chart one person's journey through grief, and maybe that would be helpful to other people. 

And so, the book begins on the evening we learned the news that Nick had died. It ends exactly one year later on the first anniversary. It just charts these seasons of sorrow, this season of sorrow, depending how you see it. I hope and trust it'll be helpful to other people, as all of us are going to endure some sort of sorrow, some sort of loss in this world.

Dannah: Yeah. What a great gift it would be for someone who is experiencing that this year, to have someone walk them through that first year—hard year—Seasons of Sorrow: The Pain of Loss and the Comfort of God by Tim Challies. Tim, I wonder if you would pray over those who are experiencing a season of sorrow right now.

Tim: Certainly, I would love to. 

Father in heaven, we thank You that You're a God who offers comfort. Thank You that You are a God who speaks the highest truths to our deepest sorrows. We thank You that You are far more willing to bless us and comfort us than we can ever imagine. 

And so for those who are in a time of sorrow, a time of loss, and perhaps especially those who are encountering their first Christmas season without their spouse, without their child, without their parents, whatever sorrow they're experiencing now; I pray that You would be very present with them. We ask that You would prove Yourself true, that You would prove true to Your every promise, and that they would not think they have to reject their sorrows as if they're somehow meaningless, but they would accept the sorrows, that there would be joys that rest alongside those. 

So, as they progress through this time, building joy, joy and sorrow side by side, resting in You, resting in Your love and grace, I pray that You would comfort them for Your sake. In Christ's name, amen.

Dannah: Amen. Thank you so much, Tim Challies for being with us today on Grounded.

Tim: Thank you.

Portia: Dannah, you already know . . .

Dannah: You got the tissues out? I know, sweet girl. 

Portia: Yeah. I'm gonna pick up a copy of that book. I haven't read it yet. But I think I need to, as I'm wrestling and processing my own grief. 

Dannah: Yeah. 

Portia: Great interview. 

Well, one thing that I'm learning guys is, or I think that I'm settling more into the notion that joy and sorrow are not mutually exclusive. And you know, God's people are called to be, as we like to say here on Grounded, joy rebels to actually show that joy and to live in joy, even in the middle of deep, fierce seasons of sorrow. Perhaps maybe, especially in seasons of sorrow. And that's exactly what Katherine Wolfe told us on a past episode of Grounded. We want you to check out this one-minute clip. And then Dannah will be back with us to help us get grounded in God's Word.

Katherine Wolfe: I think so deeply that if Americans, if the Western world, could recognize that pain and suffering are a part of the human experience, we must stop buying the lie that comfort equals contentment, because it doesn't. There is deep joy even in very painful hard lives. Those are not mutually exclusive—that hard things and good things can coexist. I've seen that. I like to say that we're joy rebels, that there is a rebellion of joy available even in situations that are painful. We're called to be joy rebels. That's what Jesus was championing, joy even in the hardest stories.

Dannah: Grief is so complex. We are called to be joy rebels. You know what we're also called to? Lament. So, I want to talk about that because grief is something you may be experiencing right now, and not necessarily just because you've lost someone that you love. Maybe you're experiencing some marriage difficulties or you are feeling the deep pain of a prodigal child. Or maybe there's just someone who can't be home for the holidays, the child who couldn't get home from college or a husband overseas in the military. 

There's lots of reasons to feel sad this month. I know the waves of grief are higher and angrier at night. Somehow when the sun's length is behind the earth, that's when the demons come out to torment. 

It becomes impossible to either think straight or sleep, so you just sit. You stare at the darkness, while you feel the hurt. Night after night. 

Well friend, today I want to write you a permission slip to grieve and to lament. You might say why? Why would I want to press into that? Because sometimes strong Christian women don't give themselves permission to slow down to “weak and weep.”

We often mistakenly believe that holding it all together is an essential part of being a godly woman. Well, then I'm going to ask you this question: Why did Jesus weep at the tomb of his dear friend Lazarus? 

I mean, think about it. He had the power and authority over death. He knew what He was about to do. He was about to raise Lazarus from the grave, but still He grieved. Why? 

Well, the Savior of the world wept because He was sinless and perfect. And grieving is a sinless, perfect response to the brokenness of our world. 

So, if you're hurting, go ahead, weep. Jesus did. 

I've been there. I've been there when the holidays were not as happy as I would have liked. I had to slow down and give myself permission to be sad. And I think if you do, you'll find the waves to be, well, let me be honest, insufferable and relentless at times. And the nights might even get darker and lonelier, the waves deeper. But I gotta tell you something: that is where you experience Jesus in a way that you don't in other places. 

Because this, my friend, is where Jesus walks on water—in the deep waves. So, be like Peter in the boat filled with fear, whose eyes were peeled to see our God in flesh. There in the dark, hear Him say to you, “Don't be afraid.” And then tell your fear to submit to the Savior’s voice. And then Jesus will invite you to walk on top of those deep, dark waves as only He can. He'll say come. I hope you'll go to Him. 

Now, you're going to have a lot of questions when you're out there on those waves, and they're going to seem impossible to answer. That's when you're going to find yourself sinking. And you're going to wonder, Why didn't I stay in my boat of anger and rage? It was so much easier to be that way rather than sad. 

There are days when you're going to sink deep. But God says He works all things together for good. And on those days when I found myself holding the truth of Romans 8:28 that God works things for good, when I held that first reluctantly, then I held a little tighter. I hold on tightly. I could not see how this suffering could be good. I wanted to question God. I took Him to my questions, but I held on to the hope that there was good to come. 

Listen, when you're holding on to that hope, go ahead and ask God your questions. He already knows them. It's the foolish woman who doesn't welcome the questions and wrestle with them. But I don't think the time to mourn is the time to answer. Not always. So store those questions for the time of His enlightenment, and hold on to Him. Hold on to Jesus, not the questions. Hold on to Jesus as Peter did in the sinking. But hold on, keep asking. 

Here's what I know. Jesus came to Peter in the waves, and he came to me in my waves of grief. Psalm 34:18 promises He is near to the brokenhearted. There in my mourning I could feel Jesus in the stillness in the dark. Here's a verse that I held on to; I give it to you. When you hold on to this permission slip, I've written for you to grieve. It's Ecclesiastes 3, verses 3–4 Let me read it to you. Soak in it this season, this Christmas season. 

It says “For everything there is a season, a time for every matter under heaven: . . . a time to break down and a time to build up; a time to weep and a time to laugh; time to mourn and a time to dance.”

There is a time to mourn, Sister, and you might be in that time right now. But you know what that means? There's also going to come a time when you're not locked. You no longer feel this grief so potently. You might always feel it to a degree, but it will get less and lighter. But a promise: the time will come when the deep wound that has been an anvil on which God has forged your strength will be a blessing. When you see the breakdown was really a breakthrough in some way. When you realize that to build up, God had to tear you down. When the weeping will turn to laughter, sweet laughter, and when heavy mourning will eventually give way to light-hearted hope filled dancing. 

But here's what I've learned. The fastest way through the grief to those sweet things is not in staying angry or bitter. All the things that life has brought your way, but in pressing into the deep waves of grief, and going through the tears. 

So, Sister, it might not be what you really wanted to hear today. But I gave you permission to grieve this season.

Portia: Thank you, Dannah, because I am going to take your permission slip. I know oftentimes, as believers, we just feel this weird tension between our grief and what we know or what we think we should be exuding all the time. And so yeah, I'm gonna take that permission slip to grieve. I'm gonna claim to those verses you gave us so thank you.

Dannah: Because you're missing someone at the table of celebration this year, your uncle? 

Portia: Yes, my uncle. 

Dannah: Press into that sweet girl. You know, I find it very inauthentic when we as Christians have fake smiles. People know the difference. But there's something very hopeful about saying this hurts so badly. 

Portia: Yeah. 

Dannah: But Jesus. 

Portia: Yep. 

Dannah: You turn your heart to that hope we have, in this Christmas season, of a baby born to fix everything that's broken in this world.

Portia: Absolutely. Yeah, I'm gonna be clinging to that seriously, in the loss of my uncle. And then also, you know about this, but the imprisonment of my sister. She's not at the table this year. She's alive, but she's not at the table. And so, yeah, I think I haven't given myself permission to grieve. But now I will. So, thank you. I love you.

Dannah: Love you too, sweetie. I’ll be praying for you.

Portia: Well, you know, this reminds me that lots of people have needs right now. And tomorrow is a big day to remember that. Tomorrow is Giving Tuesday. It is a day that is specifically set aside to give organizations. You can give to organizations like Revive Our Hearts.Grounded is actually made possible through the generosity of women like you, who partner with us in calling women to freedom, fullness, and fruitfulness in Christ. 

In fact, did you know that there is a Spanish Grounded? It is called Arragaidas. I'm sure I didn't get that right. So, don't judge by Spanish Arragaidas. That is our Spanish Grounded. It just got picked up by a big Christian TV network in Guatemala. And so, this means that it will be soon streaming into places in Latin America that are not digitally connected. 

And so, as you prayerfully consider where to give this Giving Tuesday, would you please consider giving to Revive Our Hearts. Our goal is to raise $150,000 over the next forty-eight hours. This will be specifically used to fund our international teams and programs like Arragaidas. Here are two members of our team from our Revive Our Hearts French Did you know we had Revive Our Hearts French? Yes, we do. And I know that you love hearing them speak in that beautiful romantic language. And guess what? They ooze joy. So, let's check it out.

Jeannette Kossman: Hello, my name is Jeanette Kossman.

Christine Reymond: And I'm Christine Reymond.

Jeannette: We are part of the French Revive Our Hearts which is called Reveille Nos Coeurs. We are both in Switzerland. 

We receive a lot of testimonies from women who say that they are very touched by the French podcasts of Reveille Nos Coeurs. Okay, and it encourages them to read the Bible. A lady said that even her husband now listens to the podcast of Reveille Nos Coeurs.

And it's not just women listening who are touched and transformed, it also changes us who participate. Yes, I can say for myself, when I was in a really bad place, listening to Nancy in English. It was like listening to a friend who would always point me back to Jesus, always take me by the hand and bring me back to the God of life who is the source of life. And each time I felt strengthened and encouraged. This is such a profound experience that we really want to share that with all our friends who unfortunately don't speak English, and who can only listen to this if it's in French. 

That's why we are very, very thankful for your financial support for this French part of the ministry. With your help, we can give access to these profound teachings to women in all French-speaking countries, so they can listen to it in the language of their heart and their mother tongue. And thank you for joining us in prayer so that other women can also join us in this ministry. And also so that these podcasts and other resources can be made available in all French-speaking countries.

Christine: From the bottom of our hearts, thank you so much. 

Dannah: Thank you so much. Every time you give, you help us to do the work of bringing women closer to Jesus, all over the world. And if you're feeling led to give this Giving Tuesday, (it doesn't have to be a Tuesday, it could be a Monday or a Wednesday), you can head on over to ReviveOurHearts.com Just click on the donate button to help us towards that goal of raising $150,000 to fund these many times volunteers throughout the world who are taking the truth of the gospel to women in their own language. We sure could use your help and we'd love it today. 

Hey, as we say goodbye today. I just want to say this. Some of the things we talked about were deep griefs. I’m mindful of a comment we had last week from Anjanelle. She said there are some of us that are facing empty chairs this Thanksgiving meal (that would have been last Thursday). This momma's heart is struggling with a partial empty nest and college age kids that can't come home this year. Looking for ways to be grateful for all the blessings we have and not focus on what I don't have. You know what? Even those little griefs, take them to Jesus. You will find Him there in those hurts and those pains and you will discover that you can be . . . what was it that Katherine Wolfe called us? Joy rebel. We can be joy rebels for Jesus.

Portia: Absolutely. I want to be a joy rebel.

Well, next week Holly Elliff will be here. She will be sharing some wisdom on parenting adult children. And also Bob Lepine, he'll be with us to help us think of ways to share the gospel this Christmas season. Let's wake up with hope to get there next week on Grounded.

Dannah: Grounded audio is powered by Skype. Grounded is a production of Revive Our Hearts calling women to freedom, fullness, and fruitfulness in Christ. 

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