previous
 
next

Daily Program

God's Provision for Children

Series: Embracing God's Gift of Children

Tuesday, July 8 2008

Leslie Basham: Holly Elliff says, “Don’t be quick to assume God doesn’t want you to have children.”

Holly Elliff: I do think we’re seeing a large number of Christian (committed Christian) couples who are saying, “We will not have children so that we can be more free to minister.”

First of all, I would love to be able to sit down with them across the table and do for them what someone did for us, which is simply to challenge us to pick up God's Word, putting aside what we know in our culture, but to simply get to the truth of God’s Word and say, “What does God say about this area?”

Leslie: This is Revive Our Hearts with Nancy Leigh DeMoss. It’s Tuesday, July 8.

Have you ever felt limited in the size of your family—by the size of your budget or your ability to parent? Today Nancy will continue our conversation with a pastor’s wife and mother of eight, Holly Elliff. She’s seen God’s faithful provision time and again. Let’s listen.

Nancy Leigh DeMoss: We’ve been talking this week with one of my very special friends, a dear prayer partner. Her name is Holly Elliff. Holly is a pastor’s wife. She and Bill are the parents of eight children.

We’ve been talking this week about a difficult and controversial subject, but we believe such an important one, and that is this whole matter of childbearing. Holly, welcome back to Revive Our Hearts.

Holly: Thanks.

Nancy: You’ve been telling us something of your story and how after the birth of your fourth child, thinking at that point that your quiver was probably going to be full, how the Lord challenged you to go to the Word and to evaluate, based on the Scripture, not based on the culture around you, why it was that you’d come to that conclusion and what it was that was the Lord’s viewpoint on children and on childbearing and on these practical issues of life.

Holly, it’s been interesting to me to hear you say a couple of times that you were doing what God called you to do. You’re talking there about the bearing and nurturing of life. I so appreciate hearing that perspective because I think so many women in our culture have lost sight of the biblical viewpoint that God has given to women, a distinctive call to be bearers and nurturers of life.

I think about Paul saying to Timothy in 1 Timothy chapter 5 that the younger widows, he’s speaking of particularly, were to marry, to bear children, to keep house. He’s talking about not just widows but the role and the calling of women, that a huge part of their purpose in life is to be helpers to their husbands and bearers and nurturers of children.

In fact, he goes so far as to say in a passage that admittedly is complex, but in chapter 2 of 1 Timothy, that women, in some sense, are saved through child bearing. We know from the rest of Scripture he’s not talking about their eternal salvation, but in that same passage he talks about Timothy being saved through preaching.

I think what he’s saying is Timothy’s God-given role is to be a preacher, and that he would demonstrate his salvation and his perseverance and his faith through doing what God had called him to do. Likewise, women generally are called by God to give birth to children, to rear up children who have a heart for God and that in so doing they demonstrate the genuineness of their profession of faith, that they demonstrate they are committed and submitted to God’s will and plan for their lives.

Holly, I guess what concerns me is that so many women today are making choices that they are making for some of the reasons that you described, which really do in many cases come back to “What do I want? What’s best for me?” Reasons that are selfish, rather than saying, “Why did God put me here on this earth? What was God’s purpose in creating me? How can I best fulfill that purpose?”

As you read through the Old Testament, it’s so exciting to see that God is the giver of life. He’s the Creator of life. A big part of God’s means of taking the redemptive story and Gospel to the world is through the willingness of godly parents to have a godly seed, to raise up children who will take the Gospel to the world.

One of the concerns is that this world is so violent; it’s so evil. “I don’t want to bring children into this kind of a world.”

There’s an understandable fear that I think many mothers have as they look at the world around us today. But the challenge, I think, for women of God is to not give in to that fear but to accept this calling to bring forth children into the world and to trust that God is going to use those children to be a light, to be salt, to be different, to be difference-makers and to be the ones who deal with the issues facing the world and take the light of Christ’s Gospel into the world.

So really, the problems we’re concerned about, in part God’s way of addressing those issues is to say, “Women, are you willing, and couples, are you willing to bring forth children into this world who will be part of God’s solution, part of God’s means of taking the Gospel into this very dark world?”

I know you, Holly. I’ve known you for a lot of years. I think you’re a remarkable woman. I thought that when you had fewer children, and I really think it now.

I can just imagine some women if they could know you thinking, “Well, you’re just a superwoman. You can handle having all those children.” You do seem like a pretty calm person. Of course, I don’t live in your home. I don’t know. Are things just always calm at the Elliff household?

Holly: There are a lot of words I would use to describe the Elliff household. “Calm” would not be one of them. I don’t know if it’s because I was a speech pathologist or what, but all of our children basically were born talking. They are all talkers. They are all lively children. Half of them are boys. It is never calm.

Nancy: I’m the oldest of seven children. I can think back to times around our dinner table when I would look around and realize that everyone was talking loudly at the same time. I have no idea who was listening, but we were all talking loudly at the same time.

You’d see these old TV programs with people with lots of children and they all just spoke one at a time and it was all so picture perfect. Our family just didn’t look that way. It sounds like yours doesn’t either.

Holly: I have known a family whose children sat in little chairs and never spoke unless they were spoken to. I wish I could say that’s what mine is like, but it is not.

Nancy: So if someone is saying you’ve just got exceptional ability to handle this kind of pressure but another woman says, who’s got three toddlers right now, “I just could not face that kind of pressure. I couldn’t deal with it. I’m not like you, Holly Elliff.”

Holly: Well, I would remind her that I did not start out with eight children. I had one at a time. We actually thought twins would be kind of fun but God never chose to give us twins. So we have received our children one at a time.

What I have found is that with those children comes corresponding grace to nurture those children, to love those children. I am not saying by any means that that is always easy or that I do not struggle with the realities of laundry and food and dishes.

We have home schooled for many years. I remember sitting down with Billy one night and saying, “Okay, I can do school and laundry, or I can cook and do school, or I can clean the house and do school or laundry. Which ones would you like for me to actually get accomplished because there is no way I can do all of these things.”

So we really did talk about what things were going to be the most important to us. I really was a little bit of a perfectionist in the early days of my married life. That has so far gone out the window that I am just grateful now if everyone has clean underwear and if towels get folded.

I have had to release areas that could no longer be the priority in my life, ask the Lord constantly for wisdom. I’m so grateful for James 1. The funny thing is I memorized that in college, not knowing why I would need it later.

Nancy: What part of James 1?

Holly: James 1:2-5 where it says,

When all kinds of trials and temptations crowd into your life don’t resent those things as intruders but welcome them as friends. Realize they come to test your faith and to produce in you the quality of endurance. Let that process go on until you become mature and complete and lacking in nothing. And if along the way if any of you lacks wisdom he has only to ask of God who gives to all men generously without making them feel foolish or guilty.

I cannot tell you how many times I have stood in my laundry room with the door closed, reminding God that He has promised me wisdom, that He has promised to give me what I need when I need it as I raise my children.

But what I say to that mother of three, has this been simple or easy? No.

Nancy: I’m so glad that you’ve shared with us that you’ve had to make some choices and that you don’t do everything.

I think one of the things I’ve watched as I have had some friends with many children and some of them home schooling and at a season of life that’s very challenging. I’ve watched some of those women really end up looking very frazzled and continually frustrated because they are trying to do everything in this season of life.

You’re saying that that mom doesn’t have to do everything, that everything doesn’t have the same priority.

Holly: I do think God can give wisdom on what really matters.

I was talking with a young wife the other day on the phone and she said, “My husband is so frustrated because I have a new baby and I can’t get everything done.”

I said, “I want you to ask him what are the two things that he really wants done, and then you make a commitment to get those two things done.”

She came back the next day and she said, “Okay, he wants food and he wants to be able to see the countertops in the kitchen. That really bugs him when the kitchen is dirty.”

I said, “Okay, you focus on those two things. If you can get more done, that’s great.” If you are a student of your husband enough that you know what his hot buttons are, then you can meet those needs.

My husband could care less if we eat peanut butter and jelly for dinner. If when he comes home he can sit down in his recliner and my children look mostly normal—they’re clothed. I did call home yesterday at one point and found out that my three youngest had a mattress in the front yard of my neighbor and were sliding down the mattress into the street.

So just because I have been doing this for many years does not mean it always happens perfectly. But you know, my life is real. What I have found in the midst of my very real life is that God truly is who He says He is and that He really is sufficient.

Nancy: Holly, let me back up a minute to a woman who called you recently, the young mother. I think it’s so great that as a young mother there was a woman she could call and could say, “This is hard. I’m struggling. Could you give me some counsel?”

I don’t know if you yet consider yourself an older woman. I’m not sure at what point we qualify. But you’re certainly older than that woman. And really you’re providing practical encouragement and assurance and counsel for her just out of your life experience. You’re fulfilling your God-given responsibility as an older woman to be teaching younger women.

Speak to the younger women about the importance of having an older woman in their life that they can call and who can provide that kind of encouragement for them.

Holly: Well, I really would encourage young moms especially when you have several toddlers and a busy husband . . . Motherhood can be a very lonely place when you are home all day with those children and no one is speaking coherent English to you. You do start feeling like your brain is mush, like you could not have an intelligent conversation if somebody was there to talk to.

What I find is that our society tends to isolate us and that if we are not careful we really do miss a lot of the benefit that God’s Word says we are to have through older women teaching younger women.

Nancy: Of course, now we don’t have the extended family, the aunts and the grandmothers. So women do tend to be more isolated.

Holly: Right, and we do tend to go in our houses, close our doors. I would encourage those women to look for a role model in their church or in a Bible study they’re in, to look for a godly older mother. It doesn’t have to be a lot older, but somebody just further down the road than you are who can encourage you toward godliness, who can encourage you and remind you of the truth.

Many times we know the truth in our head but there are moments when we’re so overwhelmed with our circumstances, we just need somebody to hold our arms up a little bit like Aaron and Hur did.

Nancy: Maybe just somebody to say, “You’re going to make it.”

Holly: And somebody to just remind us that every day will not feel like this day does. If today has been crazy, tomorrow won’t be quite as crazy perhaps, and that God really is still on His throne and knows what my life is like and has provision for it.

Nancy: It’s kind of easy sitting here in this studio to talk about those things. But I’m thinking about some of the questions that those who’ve been listening to this program may be asking. For example the woman who says, “We just can’t afford to have any more children. My husband doesn’t have a great income, and I can’t work full time because I’m taking care of these children. How are we going to afford having all these kids?”

Holly: Obviously, this area is very counter-culture. Our culture is so centered on materialism, on what we need.

Nancy: Or think we need.

Holly: Or think we need, or what we want. What we have found as we have raised our children on a pastor’s salary—my husband does have a secure income and we’re very grateful for that. But even so, our kids do not have everything they want.

Really, when you look in Scripture at what God says are needs, there are very few things that we actually need. There are many things we want.

So what we tell our kids is, “If there’s something you really want, then you ask God to provide that for you.” There’s nothing wrong with our children seeing God as the provider of the good things that we have.

We are not people who started putting away money with our first child to finance college educations. So we really have had to trust God.

Billy encouraged our older children to start praying for God to provide a certain amount of money. Totally unexpectedly we got a letter in the mail from an aunt who never had children of her own, recently went to be with the Lord, and provided the money we need for our son to go to college—and totally out of the blue.

It was so wonderful to be able to go to our children and say, “Look at this. This is an avenue we never even dreamed existed.” A woman who lived very simply but chose to do this.

God has illustrated to our children time and time again that when there are genuine needs there, He will meet those needs. It is very contrary to Scripture to assume that God would give us children and then not give us the ability to provide basic needs for those children.

Nancy: Holly, listening to that story I’m reminded of the fact that those who don’t have children, either because they’re single or because, as married couples, God has not blessed them with children, that we’re a community, we’re a Body.

We’re a family and there are roles that those of us who don’t have children can have in being an encouragement and a help, perhaps in the financial area as that aunt was. Perhaps in help with time, with encouraging those mothers who have their hands full with all those children.

This is a way that the Body can be a Body and encourage each other.

Let me raise another question that I hear sometimes. How old were you with your last child?

Holly: I was 43 when I had Jessica.

Nancy: Did you get some people saying to you, “After 40, there’s a higher risk of . . . ”?

Holly: Actually, it is amazing what I had even Christian physicians say to me. One doctor was compelled to read me this long list of things that could happen when you had children into your 40’s. At the end of that list I said to him—and this was someone I knew fairly well—but I challenged him as he dealt with women, not to place fears in their heart that God did not put there, that man has put there, and that if they are trusting God to give them their children and God allows them to get pregnant at 40 or 43 or 45 . . .

I was not the oldest mother on the floor. There was a woman there who was 46 and having twins when I had Jessica. So I felt really good about that, that I was not the oldest mother there.

What I have found is that we really have adopted or accepted a great deal of the world’s philosophy in this whole area and that it’s really very simple in Scripture if we will just look at the truth of God’s Word and trust Him.

Nancy: Okay, help the woman who says, “I want to have more children but my husband isn’t for that. He’s not open to that.” How do you encourage that woman?

Holly: I talked with a young gal in our church a couple of weeks ago who has one child. Her husband has decided that’s all they can afford. She desperately wants more children. I encouraged her first of all to go to her husband and make an appeal and share her heart honestly with him.

Scripture says we can always ask God to give us the desires of our heart and then leave the outcome to Him. So I encouraged her to go to her husband and share her heart honestly and then if her husband still feels very strongly about this, then it becomes an issue that she takes up with the Lord who is her intercessor.

If she goes before Christ she can continue to tell Him the desire of her heart and even to ask Him to change her husband’s heart because she’s praying something that’s in accord with Scripture. She’s not praying outside God’s will. She’s praying about something that God loves. So she has the freedom to go before God and say, “This is something I desire. Would You allow me to have more children?”

Nancy: I read an article recently in a major Christian women’s magazine by a woman who was a married woman in her thirties who was explaining why she and her husband have chosen childlessness.

She said when she was thirteen years old, she looked around and, for various reasons including all the evil in the world and she saw these moms with all these kids and they seemed so trapped. She just came to the conclusion that she did not want children.

Now as a Christian woman she’s writing an article in a major publication telling why choosing childlessness may be God’s plan for some women.

Do you find that there are younger women today thinking more this way? Is there a trend in this?

Holly: Well, I do think for about thirty years that we have been listening to voices other than Scripture to give us our philosophy in this area. I think it is real challenging for Christians to say, “Where did I get my beliefs in this area? Why do I believe this? Is it biblical?”

I was astounded to look back on my own life and realize that I had not even considered, “Is this biblical?” up until the point where we began to be challenged by God to do that. I do think in talking with my daughters and their friends and their married friends, we’re seeing a large number of Christian (committed Christian) couples who are saying, “We will not have children so that we can be more free to minister.”

Nancy: What do you say to that?

Holly: First of all, I would love to be able to sit down with them across the table and do for them what someone did for us, which is simply to challenge us to pick up God's Word and to examine it, in light of Scripture, putting aside what we know in our culture, but to simply get to the truth of God’s Word and say, “What does God say about this area? Is there any way I can justify what I believe biblically?”

If I can’t—as a Christian if I cannot prove what I believe biblically, then there is a problem with my belief system.

Nancy: So we’re really coming back to what we’ve been saying all week and that is, in this area as in every area of life as the children of God, we must go to the Scripture, let the Word of God be our ultimate authority and then surrender ourselves to His sovereign plan and will in our lives, to embrace what He says about children, about our role as women and how our lives are to center around marriage and family and why that is part of His redemptive purpose in this world.

As we surrender to that plan, God may or may not have marriage for us. And the woman who surrenders her child bearing to the Lord, He may or may not give her more children. He may not give her any children.

So the key issue becomes, “Do I really trust God to make those decisions for my life?” In spite of my fears or things I may not understand, am I really willing to let Him be the Lord?

Leslie: Nancy Leigh DeMoss has been talking with Holly Elliff, mother of eight, about God’s provision—His provision of time, of patience and of money. They’ve been talking about a true counter-cultural subject—allowing God to determine the size of your family.

We know you’re busy whether or not you do have children and it’s hard to keep up sometimes with all the interesting topics we cover on Revive Our Hearts. If you want to stay up-to-date on topics that matter, subscribe to Revive Our Hearts Daily Connection. When you sign up, you’ll get an email each weekday. Nancy offers key quotes from that day’s broadcast in the email. You’ll also get an idea of the special offers we make available. If anything interests you that day, you can click on one of the quick links to learn more, listen online or read the transcript.

Sign up for the Daily Connection at ReviveOurHearts.com.

Are you modeling biblical femininity to your kids? They may be watching more than you realize. Hear about that tomorrow on Revive Our Hearts.

Revive Our Hearts with Nancy Leigh DeMoss is an outreach of Life Action Ministries.

 

previous
next

Note: Special offers available only during the broadcast of the radio series.


View/Post Comments

Read and post comments about: God's Provision for Children

*The following comments do not necessarily reflect the views of Revive Our Hearts. We reserve the right to remove comments which might be unhelpful, unsuitable, or inappropriate.

 

"God hath not promised skies always blue,
Flower-strewn pathways all our lives through;
God hath not promised sun without rain,
Joy without sorrow, peace without pain.

But God hath promised strength for the day,
Rest for the labor, light for the way,
Grace for the trials, help from above,
Unfailing sympathy, undying love. (Via;Google)
Dear Holly,
I had our last baby at 43 also. We had 12 live births. Nineteen pregnancies. The eighth live birth was Alicia Ellen. She was born without a brain. It never occurred before, nor after. The medical jargon is not Truth based in all it says.
We planned on only two children. I was not a Born again Christian, yet when I gave birth to our first. Even I had to see this was a true miracle. And I said, "I want as many as God gives me"...
Here is a precious memory: My Aunt Tiny had really BIG feet like I do. And when I was 10 or so; us kids sat on her skates, and slid down the road. I came from a family of four. I was the oldest. My beloved came from a family of seven. He was the youngest.
ROHers,
Embrace God; embrace Truth. Do not be afraid.
Love in Christ,"

Leslie.n (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 3:29 AM)

"I needed this study. After years of prayer and pain and longing we just found out God has blessed us with a healthy pregnancy. I must marvel at His humor and provision and plan for us as we are just wrapping up 4 years of a stable job complete with insurance with the military so that my husband can go to University and finish a teaching degree. We also just bought a house and desperately needed me to work full time to make ends meet, as his GI Bill and financial aid falls short of what we need to live frugally each month. We have always known I was to stay at home with children and we are committed to this. We face a long road of no insurance as the schools insurance will not pay for preexisting conditions for 1 year and I am diabetic on about $400 worth of meds and test strips a month! No part time job for either of us will pay that insurance. I needed this study this week to grow in faith that God has not blessed us with a home and a child just to abandon us. I welcome prayer on our behalf, I would love it. To anyone else out there facing such, be strong, know God is good, he blessed you and he will provide for your family, keep praying and keep your eyes, mind and heart open to hear his replies. Much love to all."

Star (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 8:05 AM)

"God's way is always best. I heard recently of a study that says women over 40 who give birth to children actually seem to have greater "chances" (we know it's Divine Providence) of living to be 100! Hmmm, it seems God has his way of blessings and ensuring mothers will be around to influence future generations! (He gives LONGER life to older mothers--contrary to what the world has been saying all these years)--Praise Him!"

Rachel (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 8:46 AM)

"I feel as if I agree with the heart of this issue but it would be soooo helpful if the scripture was listed that helped Holly with her decision. Especially after the controversial comments spawned by yesterday's broadcast ."

Kathryn (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 9:33 AM)

"I posted yesterday...
We have several children. Three births are still not payed for. We have a very limited income as I do stay home with my children...I have to at this point. How could I ever afford daycare? I have worked part-time, but now with gas prices it is futile. We literally scrape to get by. And yes, I mean scrape. We have a vehicle that is too small for all of us to ride in. It is VERY stressful, to put it mildly. This message can be very misleading. I believed it myself for many years but reality can be a cold hand on your shoulder. It is very easy to judge when you are on the opposite side of the street, like I posted yesterday. God does not always provide college money or even a roof over your head for some. Where is the scripture supporting this? The truth is that you might end up like me. I love my children and I love the Lord, but I understand now that He is not a magic genie who will grant you good wishes...He is a God who is to be feared. And He will do as He pleases. I do believe in His eventual goodness, but for many of us it won't come on this earth. Don't mislead women into believing that if they just surrender this one issue to the Lord they will be financially taken care of. NOT TRUE."

Marie (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 10:11 AM)

"Marie--
I wonder if I sense bitterness in your note below. If so, I pray that God will soften your heart. He does use hard times to draw us closer to Himself. And, yes, I believe he gives us what we NEED, even if we THINK we need more. Jesus didn't even have a place to lay his head, but God used others to see Him fed and cared for many times. Our heart's attitude always has to be submission to his will, even if we don't think we have the resources for whatever it is He wants. He makes a way in the desert. "I have never seen the righteous forsaken, or his seed begging bread." (Psalm ___)
In His Love,"

Momoffive (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 10:27 AM)

"Marie,
I understand your point. God is NOT a genie and though He does provide for us, we must make wise choices. He provides not just financial support but guidance to set us on the right path. Although I do not agree that just "surrendering" this area of your life is scripturally based, I do think that if you felt led by God to make the decisions you did, He will help you find a way through. What that exactly means will be up to Him and I hope you will be ready for it. Please don't lose faith. Thank you for your words of reality. I think we all need to listen to all perspectives of this issue before we forge ahead and it is important that we don't try to force our personal beliefs and opinions on others when there is no clear direction in the Bible. This area is a gray area and there is no clear command followed by a consequence that I have found on this subject. The Bible only references children as a blessing which I whole heartedly agree with but I think it can be just as selfish to hoard as much blessing from God. Many things are blessings but it doesn't mean that we should pursue as much as we can without giving some thoughtful consideration to how it will work out. In any case, we should all fully seek and pursue God’s plan for us. May God help you through your circumstance."

M (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 11:32 AM)

"ASK AND TRUST
by Charles R. Swindoll

Read Esther 2:12--18 God does not mock us with the things He includes in His Word. He isn't in the business of making His people squirm under some unrealistic expectation that they can never attain---something that is totally unique to one person but remains for everyone else a frustrating and unreachable challenge. But I must quickly add, you cannot become these things by taking your cues from the world. That only brings defeat and frustration. You, as an individual, have your own pressures, your own difficulties, your own unique circumstances, but God offers ways to handle them and become His special person. The question is how? First, ask God. Ask Him to cultivate character within you. Ask Him to give you a discontent for the superficial and a deeper desire for the spiritual. Make yourself available to His strength, His reproofs. Seek His counsel for the things you lack. Allow Him to help you set reasonable goals. Record them in your journal so you will have a written account of your prayer to Him. Ask God to give you that kind of authenticity. To place more emphasis on what's happening deep within your heart and less emphasis on the externals, the superficial, the temporary. Second, trust God. Trust Him to control the circumstances around you---those very circumstances that you perhaps are using as an excuse for not being the woman you want to be. Don't wait for your circumstances to be perfect. Remember Esther. At the height of competition, surrounded by sensual, greedy, superficial women, Esther stood alone. And, amazingly, God gave her favor in others' eyes! Ask God. Trust God. We are completely dependent on Him for eternal life, for forgiveness, for character, for security. His light in our lives gives us a growing disgust for things that merely satisfy the flesh. It shows us the importance of character, the incredible change that can come by standing alone on the things of God. He alone can give us grace and winsomeness and keep us from becoming squint-eyed, cranky Christians. It is His working in our lives that uses us even in the harems of life to make a difference and to model a charm and a beauty, a dignity and an elegance that cannot help but cause people's attention to be drawn to Him and His power. Ask. Trust."

Leslie.n (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 11:50 AM)

"To Star, Just wanted to say I'll be praying for you specifically. We are just getting ready to jump into my husband's doctoral program with two kids in the boot. I hope the Lord will encourage your heart with Proverbs 31. "She shall rejoice in time to come" can be translated "She smiles at the future." How is that possible? Because her secret is that the only thing she really fears is the LORD! =) We like to look at life as an adventure and when I'm encouraging/supporting my husband and nurturing my children, I am happy, even when it's hard... Let me encourage you to read missionary biographies, especially Sharon James' _My Heart in His Hands_ about Adoniram Judson's wife. She is a beautiful example of self-sacrifice for the benefit of her husband's God-ordained mission... I don't know who you are, but I trust as a sister in Christ, the Lord will strengthen and bless you as you keep seeking Him. With love, michelle

p.s. Check out Psalm 57:1-2, ESV"

Michelle (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 12:04 PM)

"I have five children, thought we'd have several more, but I couldn't do it all myself. I have failed so much, and my children suffer for it. God has provided our needs, in spite of wrong choices, but things aren't as they should be. God's people are meant to be a true family, living, working, doing everything together. Filling each other's needs. We are too isolated this way, putting on our best on Sunday, and not ever knowing each one's needs. There are a few people coming together to live as God's family, but it takes the huge sacrifice of laying down one's life for her brothers and sisters. Most of us aren't willing to do that, so God's family lives apart, not a true family, is it? and we all suffer for it. I know a mom right now with many young children, and a new baby. She won't accept much help. She stays isolated much of the time. But she goes to church. The church people brought her ONE meal when her baby was born.
God used others to feed Jesus...and that's what He wants for us all, to care for each other. But, we are too busy taking vacations, watching movies, etc, to care for others' needs. I'm bitter, too, and I can't just get over it and think it's all okay; it's not. My children are older now, but I was practically begging for help when they were all babies, all the while, the older women from church were busy with bingo or soap operas. It's a very difficult place to be. You all say Christ is enough, but He must work through people, and when they aren't together, that's so limiting, it just doesn't work."

Michelle.k (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 12:16 PM)

"This is a great discussion seeing that there are so many different levels of perspective on this subject.
I am a mother of three children...12, 10, & 6 and they were born into me and my husbands lives before our thirties. I know there are many wives that have not yet concieved or has and the babies just keep right on coming, eaither way...God's grace is sufficent.
I remember reading a book titled, "The Stay At Home Mom" and she states in there (I am paraphrasing a bit here), that when she prayed for the fruits of the Spirit the Lord gave her three loud and lovely children all of them being thirteen months apart. She said each of those children help her develop the fruits of the Spirit, every fruit but peace, that came from the Lord.
This perspective help me to see that no matter what is going on in my life, God can use it all for His purpose. Let's face it, no one and I mean no one is exempt from trials, test, or tribulations...no one. But we as belivers can be of good cheer..for Christ has overcome the world. We may not be were we want to be before having children or after them, but God can and will apply His sufficent grace for that moment. His desire is that we be fruitful and mulitiply, so if you have children at tough time, God will provide. The prophet Isiah states, that "God gently leads those with young." He knows the tremendous pressure and responsiblity it brings and He will carry us. No matter if we have the resources or not, God is still God and we can not ever believe that we can have and raise children without Him. He is our Strength, our Redeemer, our Provider, and Lord and He knows what we need.
For those who have not yet concieved, as you wait on God to bring this part of your life into fruitation, you can still be a mother to so many, spiritually, physically, and mentally so. so. Whatever cares or grievences you have regarding your current situation, give it all to God daily, for He cares for you, but don't stop giving or walking in faith. For those who have children and it is struggle after struggle, ask God for the grace and the wisdom to make the most of every oppourtunity...for the days are evil.
We are apart of a godly Kingdom and God desires for us to raise our children with that view in mind. Let us pray for one another that we will honor God with all that is currently in our lives-children, husband, wives, test, trials, setbacks, disappointments, stuggles. No matter what God is worthy of all the glory, honor and praise. Amen."

Elizabeth (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 12:24 PM)

"What an encouragement!!Thanks to Nancy and Holly! I am 30 years okl and have 6 children. They are 8, 6 1/2, 5, 3, 19 months, and 7 weeks. Needless to say, I'm tired. I am thankful for the calling and blessing of being a mother and am open to whatever the Lord's will is for us. Whether that means having more children or not. I do think we all need to guard our hearts against judging others. Absolutely scripture teaches about the heart we need to have towards viewing our children as gifts from Him. However there is nowhere in scripture that says we should NOT THINK about how many children we ought to have. We do live in a different day and age with choices in childbearing that just didn't exist back in Bible days. I see nothing wrong with a husband and wife who believe the Lord has called them to only have 2 or 3 children. It comes down to a matter of being wholly submitted to the Lord's will for your life. Surrenderred completely - whether to have more children, or maybe to stop having children to bring the Lord glory in other ways. The Bible says whatever we don't do in faith is SIN. So we must seek the Lord's will for each of our individual lives. I, by God's grace, will not allow this to become a stumbling block between other sisters in Christ and I. We are called most importantly to love in live in peace with each other. God Bless You All."

Shannon (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 12:36 PM)

"I really appreciate Nancy for dealing with this topic, as it is so important to many of us. I do, however, think we need to be careful about making an issue which (to many Chrisitans) is a grey area, and make it as black and white as this broadcast made it. You are so right that in ALL things we must seek the will of God and surrender to His will. But that does not mean God doesn't give us certain freedoms within our faimly. We are each given different gifts, and different measures of faith. I have seen many women who believe this way and are completely burdened with exhaustion and stress due to many children close in age. Are they just supposed to "take heart" and muster up the faith to believe that this is the best way? Not only are they suffering, but their children are as well. Again, this brings me back to each of us having individual giftings. Many women have been given the "faith" or energy, health or whatever you might call it to raise a big family. That is wonderful and I praise God for them. But, I just don't belive we can make a blanket statement about what God has gifted EVERYONE to do. The bible speaks so much about finding wisdom in every circumstance. This wisdom will not necessarily look the same for each of us, and we should not assume there is only one way to view this issue. I would love to hear any feedback you might have. Thanks, and God bless your ministry!"

Julie (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 12:58 PM)

"I loved hearing today's broadcast, as having recently turned 42 and giving birth to our 6th baby 4 months ago.

The world, and the church has lots to say about advanced maternal age. As if I made the pregnancy and baby happen all on my own.

I have found great support for being over 40 and pregnant at www.shelaughed.com.

God is so good, and she came about as a decision of dh and I to hand this area over to God. The joy she brings is immeasurable, as all over the others have brought into our lives."

Kim (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 12:59 PM)

"This topic has really shook me. I am a 38 year old mother of 2. I had always wanted another child, but my marriage became very abusive and ended in divorce. I now have found a wonderful christian man who I will be marrying very soon. He has no children. I would love for God to bless our marriage with a child, but I am very concerned with my age and some past medical problems. Thank you for all of the insight that you have provided and please pray that I will have peace in knowing what God's will for our future is."

Angie (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 1:02 PM)

"A great book on what Gods word says as to allowing Him to control the size of your family is "Be fruitful and multiply" by Nancy Campbell. She has ministered to famalies for over 30 yrs. She also has retreats all over the states and countries. I have been to 3 of them and always come home encouraged to serve my family. Nancy's website is www.aboverubies.org"

Elizabeth (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 1:03 PM)

"I had an experience with God when I had 3 children under age 3. Before we were married both my husband and I were involved in many ministries through our church. The feeling was that unless you were involved in a church related ministry -- you weren't ministering. One day I plopped down in a chair in my living room ( my children were playing on the floor in front of me) and complained to God, "I'm not doing anything to minister to You!" His gentle reply was to look at my children then He spoke to my heart, "They are your ministry to Me!" I am sooooo thankful He challenged my thinking and spoke to me of His Ways and Desires for me at that time. We now have 10 children (one is with the Lord through a miscarriage) and I haven't questioned God's ministry for me since. He is a good God, and His Ways are perfect."

Den (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 1:47 PM)

"I was very blessed with your program today. As I am a 5th child of 6, and my husband is a 9th child out of 10, we both have been very conscience of what it is like living in a busy household. Now my husband and I will have two children 15 months apart. We feel that despite the struggles we may face - financially, physically, emotionally - God will bring us through, just as He has brought his family through many difficult circumstances. (His father was a school teacher with rheumetoid arthritis, and his mother managed the kids, and worked at nights to make ends meet.)
God does care for his children, and will give us the grace sufficient for own needs. Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose."

Lisa (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 1:57 PM)

"Thank you for bringing up a topic that so relates to Biblical Womanhood! Every daughter of the Lord needs to read this. They need to take every thought captive, stop believing the lies of Satan and see what God says about the matter."

Lydia (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 2:31 PM)

"The bible *does* have a lot to say about giving this area over to God.

When He said to be fruitful and multiply, He never took it back.

All through out the scriptures, *He* was the one who opened and closed the wombs. When He blessed, many times it was with more children. In Psalms 128, He call children "olive plants" because they were so valuable. (and NOT just so that they could work the family farm)

In Psalms 127, He says the "Blessed is the man who has his quiver full." My husband and sons are archers and a quiver is about 13(!) arrows. Who would go out to battle with just 2-4 arrows?

What if Jacob had had one less son? Benjamin would not have been born. Neither would have Paul, since he was from Benjamin's line. Paul wrote most of the New Testament.

What if Jesse had had only 7 sons? David would not have been born and there goes Psalms, Proverbs, and a few other books of our precious bible.

We cannot possibly see the *WHOLE* picture, but God does. If you want to read more on this subject, I recommend the book, Full Quiver. It goes into much greater details about who would not have been born (all through out history) had their parents limited their family size.

I am 42 and am expecting my 8th baby. God has always provided for us. We may not be living in the biggest house, wearing the latest fashions (nor do we want to) or drive the newest vehicle, but we live *all* to the glory of God. We take care of what God has given us.

I could tell you miracle after miracle of how God has provided for us.
He wants us to give Him *every* area of our lives. Why do we think we can't trust Him with this one?

God *CAN* be trusted, He *IS* faithful to keep His promises!"

Anothermomof8 (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 3:13 PM)

"Lisa said, "I was very blessed with your program today. As I am a 5th child of 6, and my husband is a 9th child out of 10,...."

Just think if your parents had had only 4 children and your husband's parents had had *only* 8?

That's a pretty powerful thought."

Anothermomof8 (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 3:18 PM)

"Ladies,
First I must say how grateful I am that the Lord has given Nancy the courage to "tackle" this subject amongst those "who have been called according to HIS purpose" (Rom. 8:28). This issue is an extremely "hot" issue and sad to say it often just gets swept under the carpet. People don't want to deal with it because it may cause controversy/conviction/guilt, etc. But as we live counter-culturally there will always be controversy; as we hear truth there will always be conviction; as we forsake God's leading in our lives there will always be guilt....we must realize this and be willing, by God's grace, to continue to live counter-culturally, to repent and change in areas God directs us to.
What I have seen and experienced concerning this weeks issue is that ladies sometimes don't have an "ear to hear" the truths that God has used to lead some of us in being fruitful & multiplying to the extent that God chooses to in our lives. Thus those of us with large families are often expected to "approve" of others beliefs on the issue while keeping our beliefs to ourselves, so as to not "rock the boat" so to speak...sometimes we're even kept at bay by other ladies who disagree w/ our belief....how sad for the body of Christ! In fact, I have personally experienced others jumping in & answering for me (incorrectly) when asked my perspective on the issue.
Personally, I think wether we choose to use birth control or not we must be willing to ask ourselves the hard question......why are we doing what we're doing? If I choose to use birth control, why? If I'm choosing not to use birth control, why? And I believe, as we're sincere, w/ pure hearts, before the Lord, the answer/s to that question will reveal where our hearts are at and will reveal if we're really fleshing out the entirety of the Gospel...or if we're just giving the Gospel lip-service.

Thanks Nancy for giving Holly this platform to share her heart with us!

~From a young mom of 9 delightful children whom God has used to teach me so much about Himself!"

Kim (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 3:25 PM)

"We had 4 children in five years. I agree with the many comments that this is a decision that is between you and the Lord. I don't believe this message was meant to tell you that you are sinning if you don't have a ton of children. I have a friend who had her tubes tied after 2. Sweet, sweet girl, but you would agree with me that she can't handle more than two. Instead of judging, I trust that it is the Lord who gave me the ability to handle 4. I think this message was just an encouragement to those of us that don't think we can do it, but need to be reminded that it is the Lord who provides and we do it through Him. I liked the matress on the front yard story. Very encouraging.
I also want to encourage some ladies with something the Lord has laid on my heart. I have terrible pregnancies and the Lord has put adoption on our hearts. If "bringing another baby into this horrible world" is your struggle listen to D. Rainey and be challenged to give a Christian home to a child that is already in the world, but being raised in a doomed life. It's something we are praying for...Physically, emotionally and financially handling! Matt. 6:33 Let's seek Him and pray for each other, Moms!"

Mom (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 3:26 PM)

"I will add more to that thought.
My grandmother was the 11th of 11 and my grandfather the 5th of 5.

What if any of their parents would have had just "ONE* less child?

History would have been completely changed!
26 people would not have been born!

How many lives have we touched?
How many souls have we led to the Lord?What will we and our off-spring's off-spring do in the future?

WOW....We cannot possibly see the *WHOLE* picture, but God certainly does."

Anothermomof8 (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 3:35 PM)

"I just wanted to spread the word, for those couples who decide they need to limit their family, that a contraceptive can sometimes cause early abortions.(i.e. killing a baby) This happens when sometimes the egg gets fertilized even though it shouldn't. The contraceptive then prevents the fertilized egg (baby) from being implanted in the womb, and an abortion occurs. As an alternative, there are other, very reliable NATURAL ways to space your children, that are in line with God's plan for us."

Barb (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 3:48 PM)

"Thank you, Nancy, for sharing on a subject that is near and dear to my heart!

18 years ago, my husband and I decided *on our own* to have only 2 children. We had a vasectomy, but within the year following, *God* totally changed our hearts and within 2 years, we had a vasectomy reversal.
When we first gave that area up to God after the surgery, we thought we would have a baby every year. It didn't happen like that! It took almost 2 years to get pregnant and in that time, God showed us that HE was really the one who opens and closes the womb.

We are now expecting our 8th baby AND 6th "reversal" baby! I have also had 3 miscarriages, so this is my 9th *reversal* pregnancy!

I am 42 and my husband is 43 and it is not as easy on my body as it was when I was younger, BUT the reward and sacrifice is worth it all!!!!!!!!!!!

We cannot imagine our lives without our last 6 children. When we look at who we would have missed out on if we would have left things the way *we* planned, we are both grieved, and then joyous. We are so thankful that we heard a message, like the one Nancy is sharing this week, so many years ago.

God is so good to show us HIS plan if we are only willing to listen.""

Kim (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 4:04 PM)

"I agree with all these that we should not interfere with God's plan for our number of children. Yet, after our 3rd child was born with my life being threatened during the pregnancy and our baby spending weeks in NICU, my dear husband convinced me to sign for his surgery. I have regretted it ever since, but he continues to stand by his decision. He will have to answer to God for it, and I guess, so will I. Please pray for those of us who must live with these decisions that we have made. Thankfully, God forgives!!!!!!!!! I just wish I could forgive myself."

S (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 5:39 PM)

"So what does the Bible (or religious teachers/"sisters") have to say about someone like me, a clearly fertile woman who has born two children, endured one miscarriage, and now we are awaiting an adopted son with special needs from China. I am on birth control to prevent pregnancy. I do not feel called to give physical birth again at this point although I am open to it if the Lord calls us to that. However, I believe that my future children will be adopted. Many international adoption processes require you to not become pregnant during the process by the way. This is not why I have chosen the birth control route. Based on the program I heard today, I believe I would likely be judged for choosing birth control. I believe God has replaced my desire to give physical birth with a desire to mother adopted children who need a home. I share my story not because I fall on one side or the other of this issue. I have dear friends who feel called to have large families and forgo birth control and I also have dear friends on the other end of the spectrum. We are all sisters in Christ and respect the different convictions. I do not expect that every Christian has to adopt although I feel passionately about it myself and think more believers should at least pray about it/consider it together as a couple. I would never judge a believer for not adopting. I once heard a pastor say about the body of Christ that in essential issues we must have unity; in nonessential issues, we must have liberty; and in all things we must have grace. Let's be careful to not let things divide us but rather love each other deeply, from the heart (1 Peter 1). Thank you."

A. (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 6:06 PM)

"Dearly beloved Nancy and Holly, and sisters in Christ!
May the Lord bless you all and minister to all of us regarding this important subject! I haven't heard/read yesterday's broadcast yet, but wanted to add some comments to today's blog. FIrst of all, thank you Holly and Nancy for allowing Holly to share her testimony. I have consistently been blessed by Holly's comments over the years and can relate to her as a mom of many. I can attest to the truth of God providing in every way when He calls you to have a lot of children. It seems He has always provided whatever we have needed; when everyone was home, there was great provision for that; now with a smaller number, a smaller (but adequate!) provision. I marvel at how the Lord does that. It is truly His hand, as the hymn says (Great is Thy Faithfulness). I had several older women to mentor me in the early days, which was a tremendous help and blessing. Older (Christian) women have so much wisdom to offer to the younger. This counsel today, to find an older woman to help, is invaluable. (It can even be a younger woman who may be wiser or more experienced.) Today Nancy mentioned about submitting to God in every area of our lives. Our pastor made the point once that -- first things first -- we must really submit to God about His choice of a mate for us before we can truly be in faith that He will bless us as we have children. Sometimes we try to build our own families (outside of God's will) and it's not blessed. If we did start our family without carefully seeking God's will, we can repent and still believe Him to bless us now and yield to His will in building our families. I am a mom with many children yet a complicated family situation. But I am so thankful for our Lord's redeeming grace and lovingkindness in my (and my family's) life; He makes all things beautiful in His time. Children truly are a gift from the Lord and I'm so thankful to have been taught to trust Him for His will concerning family size. He doesn't make any mistakes and "with the call comes the enabling." I am trusting Him to use all my children (His time, His way) for HIs glory. And I so appreciated Holly's comments about not being able to do it all, but looking to God (and asking husband's opinion) about which tasks really matter to do personally (each family may differ a bit in this area and that's the beauty of it!).
In His love and with prayers to all my seeking sisters,"

Leslie.s (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 6:09 PM)

"God is able! Last year we claimed 360$ on our taxes. And praise be to God, we are all healthy and well. For those in difficult financial situations, I understand. But you really need to evaluate what is important. And what is priority. During 2007 I gave birth to my second son. We are currently a family of 4. God has provided abundantly for us. When we are getting pressed, it's an opportunity not only for us to see what we are made of, but for others. So may we be like olives, being pressed to provide oil for the lighting of the Tabernacle. The dwelling place of God. God provides, has provided, and will provide. His name will be sanctified."

Finances (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 6:12 PM)

"Thank you Nancy and Holly for providing this forum! I can see the spiritual eyes, ears and hearts of God's people are being opened and transformed. Glory be to God!
Let us take into account Philippians 4:19 "And my God shall supply all you need according to His riches in glory by Christ Jesus."
God's blessings to all in Christ!"

Gift (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 9:11 PM)

"S, I just want to remind you of John 3:17, anwhere Holy Spirit convicts you personally of something you repent and it is gone - forgiven. Oh the joy in that. I too had my tubes tied, and have repented. I am clean before God.

I wanted to comment about the last child being born past 40 and the risks. I have a child with a genetic disability. I was 21 when he was born. God did not give him a disease, but God sees us, and cares for us. God will make us able. Sometimes life is hard, but I leave those decisions up to God.

And if having children threatened my life, it is not mine to hold on to. Again, I will just try to be obedient to God, and leave the fall out to him. If I am in his will, and my health or life suffers from it, then those problems will have to answer to Almighty God. He wrote the last word about all of us. Even death has no sting."

Christina (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 10:47 PM)

"Dear Nancy and Holly,
Thank you for speaking out on this topic. I am a blessed mother of 4 children (10, 6, 3 and 1 month old boys). I also suffered a miscarriage June of 2007. After having our 3rd son, both my husband and I had decided that we no longer wanted anymore children. However after seeking God and Him changing my heart and my husbands, we both decided that we were no longer going to control that part of our lives. It is interesting to me how we as Christians decide that we want to surrender control of our lives to our Lord however on the issue of child bearing we like to keep control on that aspect of our lives. I have had many non-believers and Christians alike approach me and not understanding why I want more children and ask me whether or not I plan to go on birth control so I won;t have anymore. I have told them "Let God's will be done" and if the Lord blesses me with more children (I am 36), then I will accept those blessings with a grateful heart. My husband also in the sole provider of our family and when times were hard, the Lord always provided for our family., Thank you for speaking out on this topic and hopefully changing the heart of women out there who are dealing with the issue of child bearing."

Sandi (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 10:53 PM)

"God's sovereignty, God's love, God's grace. Things God has been teaching me much about. I am a 42 yr old mother of 5 (10, 8, 7, 4, and our first lost to miscarriage). Up until the time my last child was born, we used only 'natural family planning' and that not very faithfully as we felt that God was in control of that area. However, my husband struggles with chemical depression (yes, I know, another hot topic :) and also with life-dominating sin. He began talking about surgical birth control, and I was very, very hesitant. I wanted to just let it up to God, but God seemed to be impressing me that He wanted me to trust Him that it was OK if I didn't have any more children and that I was to be faithful in caring for the children I have. After much prayer and tears and searching Scripture, I came to believe that God was asking me to give up my 'right' to have more children and to trust Him in this area. So, 8 weeks after my last child, I had my tubes tied trusting God that if He wants me to have more children, He is able. It was a decision made with much prayer and after seeking godly counsel. God is in control no matter what we do and someday I may yet see how this will work out for His glory and my good. I share my story because my heart goes out to those of you struggling with guilt over your decisions either to not have any / more children or to have many children. Really, don't you think the point is that today, at this moment, we believe that God is sovereign, that He is wise, and that He loves us. And that today, at this moment, we choose to trust Him and rest in the fact that a wise and loving God is in control of all things and that we are not able to mess up His plans :). At this moment, we have lost nearly all our material possessions and my husband is still in the grip of life-dominating sin. I have no idea whether God will break and then rescue my husband or whether his sin will eventually lead him to abandon us, but this I know, my God is faithful. He has in countless ways provided answers to my cries of fear, anger, and despair. Just to mention one: I was crying out to God, "How can you say that you have suffered all things like me? Did you suffer for years? What about the people who have been tortured for years because they will not deny You? Have you suffered like them?" One evening, we dropped the kids off at the in-laws with plans of a date, but my husband chose to use the evening to indulge in sin and I was left to be bitter and angry or use the time. I decided to browse thru the local Christian bookstore, not expecting to find anything. But, what should I find on the sale table for $2 but a copy of 'Christ Our Mediator' by CJ Mahaney! I went to a restaurant (this was 1 1/2 yr ago when there was still a little money :) and sat and read for the evening. What should I read but the answer to my heart's question: Jesus can claim to have suffered all things because He has suffered the one thing I will never have to endure -- the cup of God's wrath including complete and total separation from God. I may feel like I am utterly alone, but I never am truly alone. Jesus took the wrath I deserved and was totally alone at the cross so that I never need be alone! That is the answer to my question. God has in countless ways brought answers to me thru Scripture, books, songs, sermons, and other Christians, many times when I thot I could not go on and sobbing, begged God to help. He always has, although almost never as I expected. Tommorow, I may (and probably will) struggle with the temptation to doubt God, to worry and despair, but God is faithful, and He will provide an answer. Especially to those of you who find yourselves struggling, I offer these precious promises and truths that comfort me and I hope may comfort you: Job 42:1-6 -- God's plan cannot be thwarted, Psalm 46 -- God is our fortress, psalm 55:12-19 -- though our dear ones wound us, God will save us, Psalm 61, 62:1,2,8,11,12 -- God is a refuge and His love is steadfast,Psalm 66:10-12 -- after testing comes the place of abundance, Psalm 69:13 -- in His time, Psalm 84:10-12 -- I would rather be doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in tents of wickedness, Psalm 91 -- my fortress, Isaiah 35:3-4 anxious heart, Isaiah 40:2-31 He does not faint or grow weary, Isaiah 41: 9-13 -- fear not, Romans 8:1,5-7,11 -- no condemnation, Romans 8:26 -- the Spirit himself intercedes for us, I Corinthians 7:17 -- live as God has called you, II Corinthians 1:9 -- rely on God, II Corinthians 4:1-6 -- do not lose heart, I peter 1:3-9 -- hope, I Peter 4 -- suffering?, trust the faithful Creator, II Peter 1:3-7 -- granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness.
My God, the faithful and just One bless you!
Phillipians 1:6 "And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ!""

Alive (on Wednesday, July 9, 2008 at 12:59 AM)

"Holly said, "It is very contrary to Scripture to assume that God would give us children and then not give us the ability to provide basic needs for those children."

And yet we see it. What about the millions of children that are hungry, sick, without shelter...some without parents? Is this contrary to scripture? I don't think it is."

J (on Wednesday, July 9, 2008 at 3:04 AM)

"Thank you for this program. I heard it after I had come home from a doctor's visit in which I was informed that I had lost my baby (this is my fifth pregnancy & first miscarriage). I turned 40 this year and was aware of the risks. My doctor gave me the option of having my tubes tied during my d&c on Wednesday. In the midst of the emotional pain, it sure sounded like a good idea. I have always believed that God opens and closes the womb and have been trusting Him to give me whatever number of children He chooses in His timing (I had three children, a ten year gap, then a fourth). This loss had made me question my beliefs. So, as Nancy said, the key issue becomes, "Do I really trust God to make those decisions for my life? In spite of my fears or things I may not understand, am I really willing to let Him be the Lord?" Please pray for me."

Dawn (on Wednesday, July 9, 2008 at 8:27 AM)

"Thank you so much Holly and Nancy! I wasn't going to comment because there are so many comments already - but some are so surprising. My heart aches for someone with a porn-addicted husband (and it could happen to any of us at any time). But that is just sin and has NOTHING to do with whether or not God created us to bear fruit from our marriages. Although nobody would want many children and a porn-addicted husband, the children are not the problem, the porn is. When we look at how God created our bodies, why is it not obvious that he desired us to bear children? The Old Test. commanded us to bear children, the New Test. built on that. Every Godly person was happy to be pregnant and acknowledged that God gave them that child. Onan was the only Biblical example of someone who did not want children. He was not struck dead because he didn't obey his father - the penalty for not raising up a dead brother's children was humiliation, not death (like Ruth's brother-in-law). The difference with Onan was that he did want the pleasurable part of being a husband - without the responsibility. He took what God had to offer without offering anything back. Every economic status considered children a great blessing. Today we won't have children if money is a little tight - in the Bible, they considered children a blessing while in slavery. We know that God loves life - and Satan kills, steals, and destroys. Satan obviously kills and destroys through abortion, but he seems to be even more successful at stealing - when God has a plan for us before we are even conceived, but then conception is stopped. As for comments about starving children and adoption - individual children are definitely helped through adoption. But as long as a sinful govt rules China, there will be unwanted children there. As long as India feels a rat is as important as a person, there will be starving children there. As long as a sinful govt rules Africa, there will be devastation there. One could even argue that as we adopt these children, we are actually enabling these rulers and dictators to continue what they do. It seems that adoption MAY be what God is asking of you. But when you marry, and God blesses that union, you can be sure of what God is asking of you. You can also be sure God has a different plan when no children result from your marriage. Let's don't look past the obvious and try to find some hidden calling from God. And remember that God will never give you anything in life that will hinder your serving Him. I read a quote once, that of course I can't remember.. but it was about how people want God everywhere EXCEPT on His throne."

Ann (on Wednesday, July 9, 2008 at 8:36 AM)

"I am 32 yrs. old diagnosed with severe endometriosis. I am childless. Last year I had to have 2/3 of my ovaries removed due to tumor. I continue to hope that God will provide a child and bless my good husband. Yet....I struggle...to know God's plan for us. Like we are at a fork in the road. I don't want to give up trying (I can ask assistance from fertility Dr.), but I could also commit to alternatives such as adoption or starting a career. My husband and I can't seem to find God's mind on the matter. What does that mean? I'm just curious if the prayerful women in this community could help me figure out if maybe we just need to let what is...be, and not walk either path and let life come to us? Or is it up to us to make a decision? Could utilizing a fertility doctor be a similar "human" intervention to gain pregnancy as taking a birth control pill is to prevent pregnancy? My heartfelt prayer are for all of you. God bless and thankyou."

Lori (on Wednesday, July 9, 2008 at 9:53 AM)

"Lori--
God bless you for being willing to welcome new life. Woman's natural desire is for children, and I pray that God, in some way, will allow you to be a mother. Rescuing children (even from foster care in this country) is a sign of "true religion", acc. to the Scriptures--caring for the fatherless and widows. There is no career greater than that of a mother--the influence a mother can have is phenomenal, and only multiplies with each child! Of course, it's necessary to train them according to God's Word as well (Deut. 6:6, Ps. 78)--saturating their lives with Christ--educating them for Him! If you're willing to do that, rescue as many children as you can from a life that leads to destruction. In the mean time, God may grant you the "desires of your heart." (Remember, the LORD shows us day by day His will, as we walk with Him in His Word and prayer.) So, it's not like some instantaneous decision has to be made. He'll naturally bring things into your life as you pursue expanding His Kingdom in some way or another (after all, that's the true goal here). If fertility treatments only promote life, and there's no possibility of embryos being destroyed, I don't see how that could be wrong. Of course, any destruction of babies, even for an eventual pregnancy can never be justified. (Ps. 139)
In His Love,"

Motheroffive (on Wednesday, July 9, 2008 at 11:06 AM)

"Wow! What a can of worms we have going here :) The person today or yesterday that posted that the Lord will lead through the husband gave good advice. That will be his answer for each individual situation. It is sad to me that rather than taking the opportunity to encourage young women to embrace having children at all, women who already have children are encouraged to not use any form of birth control at all. While I believe the motive is right to encourage motherhood to our daughters and young women, thinking there is only one way that is "God's" way, may actually discourage them from becoming mothers at all or make women who have made different decisions feel unnecessary guilt. I remember feeling the same way about home schooling about 15 years ago. The idea was mine (based on a lot of fear). My husband did not have the same passion or leading from the Lord but got on board because of pressure from me. Long story, short, ultimately my husband took the leadership and kids went back in school. Things in the end all worked out and our kids are grown and married. But I learned the hard way to follow my husband's lead. I wish I could say I have always applied it. The beauty of how the Lord works in our lives is He takes everything and uses it for His glory. It is part of the whole process of our being conformed into the image of His Son. Our whole life, good decisions, bad decisions, obedience, disobedience, failures and disappointments are part of the process and all of us as believers are in different places in our spiritual walk and growth. It is not what we do for God but what He has done for us and will do with Christ in us the hope of glory. We must guard to not make someone's convictions law as we live by grace. Blessings."

Jules (on Wednesday, July 9, 2008 at 12:53 PM)

"Lori, my heart goes out to you in prayer. I want to share this scripture with you that came to me when I asked the Lord what he would have me and my husband do while we waited upon Him for an answer to increase our family size.

Isaiah 54:1 Sing, O barren, thou didst not bear; break forth into song (singing) and cry aloud thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the Lord.

I hope this passage will bring comfort, peace, and joy to your heart in knowing that the Lord cares for you and your circumstances. He is with you and understands your pain. He has you bundled up in His love and care!

Many Blessings!"

Gift (on Wednesday, July 9, 2008 at 3:57 PM)

""Legalism!" is always our tendency to cry when we are confronted with holy living. I have to lovingly disagree with the email a couple of notes down, because I think legalism is misunderstood by many. Legalism is NOT a person's heart-felt desire to live a holy life. Legalism is thinking that keeping the law merits us saving grace with GOD. On the contrary, as Jules mentioned, it's Christ's work on the cross that does that. When we consider what a great sacrifice that was for us, we feel compelled to search the Scriptures to make sure we can do everything we can in return to please our Savior. I never read anything in the transcript of Nancy's program that suggests an open womb merit's God's saving grace, so I don't think it's right to suggest she is preaching legalism. Also, it's interesting you will never find any Scripture that mentions limiting the size of your family purposefully. In fact, Onan, the man in the O.T. who tried to limit the size of his family was struck dead. That is just one passage of Scripture, but there are many others to research about families (the Psalms), being fruitful (Genesis and the Psalms), and much more! Blessings-"

Rachel (on Wednesday, July 9, 2008 at 4:48 PM)

"I too have really struggled regarding this issue. My husband and I have gone back and forth regarding having more children. Lately I have really been noticing the tremendous need for fathers in our culture. I think God does want us to step out in faith but I also think he wants us to use common sense. Why else would he have Solomon write the book of Proverbs? The common sense that I am trying to apply to my own situation is that the three children that I already have need to spend time with their father. He already works two jobs so that time is limited now as it is. If we had another child he would need to be gone even more. A baby would be a very special blessing and we would welcome it, but I realize that even the joy of a new baby cannot replace the security, guidance, and time that my children need from their father. I came from a family of five and I have enjoyed my brothers and sisters but I also have seen wonderful benefits in the lives of others who have come from smaller families. God can bless any family regardless of their size!"

Amy (on Wednesday, July 9, 2008 at 5:02 PM)

"Rachel, I did not mean to imply that this program, Holly or Nancy were being legalistic. I was responding to the notes on the blogs and my own particular situation. Legalism, in the Christian church is rampant and not necessarily in regards to salvation which is easy to discern but in sanctification which is also only done by the power of the Holy Spirit. A mixing of salvation by Grace but living the Christian life by law like in Galations is not uncommon. Nancy would be the first to uphold the truth of God's Word and her teaching is not legalistic, I was just encouraging us all as Christians to look to God about each individual situation and he will lead through our husbands. It appears many women have shared how God has worked these things out in their lives and all I meant was there is not only one way to live the Christian life in many of these areas of personal conviction and to show God's grace to others who make different choices. I pray that my comments have not offended."

Jules (on Wednesday, July 9, 2008 at 5:41 PM)

"Praise be to our Heavenly Father for allowing this discussion to continue. I just have to bring up something that will probably be taken wrong, but from my own life experience, feel is important to throw out...I think we need to study further the act itself that creates these blessing! God created the act itself and designed it to "create life". Life that is either born in nine months or life that is spiritual between the husband and wife. I speak from my own personal experience on both good and bad of this one act......SEX is God's creation and we need to research and understand what and how God created SEX for. Satan has so deceived society, as I am sure we all will agree, regarding this beautiful act of life giving love. Where do these precious blessings come from? SEX! And until we understand God's desire and purpose for the "marital embrace" we will not fullly understand this entire issue.

To anyone on birth control or at the opposite end...considering fertility treatments, I challenge to you seek the truth in God's design for sex....that is where life begins no matter how we look at it. When we alter that design in a man made way, we alter God's plan."

Sue (on Thursday, July 10, 2008 at 8:33 AM)

"While I see the point of Holly and Nancy's discussion, I can't help but wonder about the prudence for mothers and fathers (potential and current) to evaluate having more children. I currently work (not as a missionary) in Africa with many people whose families are unable to provide food, shelter and medical care. While I do truly believe that God will provide, I also think that it is prudent for people to evaluate whether they will be able to provide for their families. It is very easy to seal ourselves up in our American bubble and not realize the way in which God's people in other places live... the Christian messages are not just for Americans but are for all people. To encourage people to have additional children without considering how they will provide for them is actually encouraging people to be poor stewards of the resources they were blessed with."

Ally (on Monday, July 14, 2008 at 2:13 PM)

"One issue I didn't see addressed here was the mother's health. I have several health problems as well as Gestational Diabetes, having to use insulin this time. I am also almost 40 so future pregnancies would be even more of a health risk. We want to follow God on this issue. Yet, we want to be wise and not do anything that would not be good for me or a baby."

A (on Monday, August 25, 2008 at 8:56 AM)

First Name (Your name will be displayed.)

Email (We value your privacy and will not publish your email address.)

Enter Your Comment