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Daily Program

A Full Quiver

Series: Embracing God's Gift of Children

Monday, July 7 2008

Leslie Basham: Bill and Holly Elliff are parents of eight children, but they didn't always plan on having such a big family. Here's Holly Elliff.

Holly Elliff: We did marry in college in the early 70's. We immediately started using birth control. I don't remember us praying through whether we wanted to do that or—it was just kind of the normal thing to do.

Leslie: This is Revive Our Hearts with Nancy Leigh DeMoss. It's Monday, July 7.

You probably pray and seek God's wisdom on many issues, but have you sought God's will regarding the size of your family? Today we'll hear from a woman who did seek God's direction in this area through prayer and the Bible. Here's Nancy to introduce today's guest.

Nancy Leigh DeMoss: Over the next few days, I want you to get to know a very special friend of mine. Holly Elliff and I have known each other since the early 80's, and she has been one of those very wise and godly women influences in my life. Holly, welcome to Revive Our Hearts.

Holly: Thanks, Nancy.

Nancy: Holly is a pastor's wife. Her husband, Bill, is a pastor in the Little Rock area, and they are the parents of eight children. Yes, you got that right, and actually, that's at the heart of some of what we want to talk about over these next few days. this is a matter that has been a topic of great controversy and one that I think is so important for women to address because it goes to the heart of a part of our role and our calling as women.

We want to talk about this whole matter of childbearing and what is God's purpose? What is God's plan? What does His Word, most importantly, have to say about this major area of a woman's life?

Holly, take us back to the days before there were little Elliffs and when you and Bill first married, even when you were dating, perhaps. Had you thought about how many children you wanted to have? Did you always intend to have a large family? Where were you and Bill on that matter?

Holly: Well, actually, Billy and I have known each other since junior high school. In high school, when we thought we might get married someday, we used to make lists of names of our children.

Nancy: How many names were on that list?

Holly: Oh, three or four probably. We did marry in college, in the early 70's, and at that point, immediately started using birth control. I don't remember us praying through whether we wanted to do that or—honestly, it was just kind of the normal thing to do.

I had a degree in speech pathology, and Billy was headed for seminary. We had negative ten dollars a month in our budget when we got married, and so for four years I taught, and Billy went to seminary.

At the end of that time, we decided we were ready to start a family. So after four years of marriage, our first daughter was born—Jennifer. For the next several years, we continued to use birth control and stopped whenever we felt like we were ready to have another child.

We had always wanted four children. That was kind of the number that was in our head, and so, not until I was pregnant with the fourth child, did this really become an issue in our life.

Nancy: And when you say it became an issue, why did it become an issue? What kept you from just saying four—that's the number, and that's where we'll stop?

Holly: Well, at that point, we were living in Oklahoma. We were exposed to some larger, godly families.

Nancy: And by larger . . . ?

Holly: By larger, I mean five, six, seven, eight.

Nancy: That seemed like a lot to you.

Holly: Actually, I had grown up as the oldest of four, and I didn't really want to have to work as hard as I saw my mother work. I was not at all looking to have a large family. My goal in life, as a young woman, was to become a clinical speech pathologist and drive a little, red, sports car. That's what I wanted to do with my life.

Well, needless to say, God, over the course of those early years, changed those things as the goal for my life. As we were confronted with some of these larger, godly families, suddenly, it became very strange to us that we had a number of children that we thought we were supposed to have and had no idea where that number came from.

At that point, we really began to question, what does the Bible say about this? Why are these other families choosing to have more children? I thought it was a very radical thing for them to be doing that, and it did make me very afraid.

Nancy: Afraid of—what were your worst nightmares as you thought about . . . ?

Holly: My worst nightmares were wearing maternity clothes for the rest of my life and weighing 400 pounds. I really had a vision of mothers of large families that was not very flattering, and personally, I did not want to be one. What happened was that we began to be troubled about this.

Eventually, we went to the parents of one of these large families that we knew were a godly couple. We knew they sought the Lord in the decisions they made. We went to them and asked them why they had such a large family. I think they had seven or eight children at that point. What they did was really challenge us to do what someone had challenged them to do, which was to pick up our Bibles, become like Berean Christians . . .

Nancy: And Berean Christians were those who didn't just accept the apostles' teaching. They went back to the Scripture and checked it out for themselves to make sure that what the apostles were saying was really consistent with the Word of God.

Holly: Right.

Nancy: So you were being challenged to take your viewpoint and put it up against the grid of the Word.

Holly: Really, we didn't even know what our viewpoint was at that point. I don't remember anyone ever challenging us to think that through, to put it up against the standard of God's Word. It was the norm for that day, and that's what we did. Here we were being challenged for the first time to really examine that in light of God's Word.

Nancy: So you're a pastor's wife. You already have now four children, or the fourth on the way. I assume there's some question about income here, perhaps living on somewhat of a limited income. That had to be a factor in your thinking. As you went to the Word, were there some hesitations or reservations that you found affecting your thinking as you began to study God's thinking on this?

Holly: There was tremendous hesitation, and it really began a process that, for me, took about six months of going to God's Word, looking at the Scripture, saying:

  • What does God say about the whole area of children?
  • What do I believe about children, about why God would put more children in my life?”
  • What about the whole issue of God's sovereignty in that area (which had never occurred to me).

I had never wondered, "Is there any sense in which I might be violating God's sovereignty in controlling the size of my family?"

As we got into the process of really looking at God's Word and what He said, it took my husband about two weeks to feel like he had studied the Scripture, knew what God said in this area of children:

  • that they were a blessing
  • that they were from Him
  • that God controlled that
  • that He opened and closed the womb
  • that it was a good thing.

I remember vividly the day he came out of his study. He had this wonderful vision of what it would be like of someday sitting on my front porch and looking out and seeing scores of children out there. We would have every temperament type represented. We would have every spiritual gift represented, and our children would know how to relate to everybody in the world because they live with all different types of people.

I immediately said to him, “Well, that's very easy for you to say because I'm the one wearing the stretch pants for the next 20 years, and I'm sorry, but I just don't want to go there.” I really did not want to go there. It was a very frightening thing to me to think of taking my hands off that control in my life.

It took me about six months to work through what I believed the Bible said about that whole issue, and I became an avid student of God's Word and just began to search the Scriptures for every reference to children, to children as a blessing, to God's sovereignty in that area as far as opening and closing the womb and looking, honestly, for a way to avoid releasing that area in my life because my preference at that point was not to relinquish that area to the Lord.

As I did that, over and over and over, I found the same things:

  • that God was the creator of life
  • that God knew who He wanted to create
  • that He knew what we were going to look like
  • that He had a plan for every person
  • that it was all His business.

I remember vividly one night sitting down at my kitchen table with a legal pad and a sharp pencil and making a list. At the top of the list, I wrote, “reasons I don't want to have a million children,” and I began to make a list of all the objections I had to what I was seeing in God's Word.

Nancy: And tell us, what were some of the things you wrote on that list?

Holly:

  • Fears about what it would do to my physical body.
  • A fear of being pregnant every nine months for the rest of my adult life.
  • Financial fears—if we have these children, can we support them?
  • Can we love a larger number of children? Is that possible?
  • Fears related to what other people would think.

I got to the bottom of that list, and I laid down my pencil. I read back through that list, and a sudden sense of the total selfishness of everything I had put on that list swept over me. I looked at it, and I thought, “I cannot believe that's what's in my heart.” Everything I had on the list was rooted in selfishness.

Nancy: Now, some would look at that list and say, “Some of those things weren't selfish. Some of those things were just sensible.”

Holly: Well, the bottom line was, it came down to whether or not I was better at making decisions than God was. Was I going to be better at determining what my financial state ought to be than the Lord? Was I going to be better at determining the number of children I could love than God Himself?

It suddenly became very clear to me that this was a heart issue, at least in my life. It was a surrender issue. It was a matter of me choosing, just like I said God was Lord in every other aspect of my life.

We prayed through what to do with our money. We prayed through when we bought a car. It was a huge issue that we prayed about and trusted God to give us direction, but in this area, it was as if we had said, “This area is ours to determine, and we will make this decision.” For the very first time, I was confronted with the fact that I had never really said to the Lord, “What is Your will?”

Nancy: As God began to turn your heart on this, and you saw it as a surrender issue, were you just quickly then able to say, “Okay, Lord, however many children You want us to have, I'll just throw away this list of objections and . . .

Holly: Well, that night was a real turning point as I really saw the groundwork of my heart a little bit and the selfishness that was there because, even though my husband had quickly come to that decision, I was the one that I thought was going to be pregnant every nine months. It was very difficult for me to release control of that area.

Nancy: Did you do that that night?

Holly: That night, I really did see it suddenly as an issue of surrender, and I did surrender to the Lord in that area, not knowing what that meant. I really thought at that point, “Lord, I'm going to have 25 children.” It scared me to death, and even as I surrendered to it, it was a very frightening thing.

Nancy: Yes. Yes.

Holly: Part of the reason it was so frightening was that during the four years that we had used birth control, I had not given a thought to getting pregnant. I went to my doctor at the end of that time ad said, “We think we'd like to have a child.”

He said, “That's fine. It will probably take you six months to get pregnant.” Well, I got pregnant two weeks later, as soon as we quit using birth control, and that continued to happen. Every time we decided we were ready for a child, stopped using birth control, I was always pregnant the same month.

Nancy: So you figured you'd be pregnant all the time.

Holly: So the thought of never again using birth control, relinquishing that area to the Lord, to me, honestly meant, I will be pregnant every nine months.

Nancy: That turned out not to be the case for you, right?

Holly: That's exactly right, and actually, our two closest children occurred while we were using birth control and thought we were in control of that. Since that time, our children have not been any closer than that.

Our closest ones are 18 months apart, and it was astounding to me that my husband and I could just live as a husband and wife and that I did not get pregnant. It blew me away to realize that God really was controlling an area of my life that I thought for years I had been in control of.

Nancy: So as you came to the point of releasing this area of your life to the Lord, practically, how did that affect decisions that you and your husband began to make then after the birth of that fourth child?

Holly: Well, really, the next time that we dealt heavily with this was after our fourth one was born, and we had to make the decision after that pregnancy, will we pick up birth control again? Have we laid it down forever, and so really, after Joshua was born, we did go before the Lord, say, “Lord, is this an area of our life that You want total control of?

After months of searching God's Word, trying to find a reason why we would not do this, we really became convinced that God was saying to us through His Word, biblically, that we were to totally release that area of our life to Him. It was still frightening to me, but at that point, that is the decision that we made. After the birth of our fourth child, we simply just lived.

Since then, God has given us four more children. I've actually been pregnant six more times, and I can honestly say looking back, I have absolutely not one regret about that choice.

Nancy: What happened when you began to share with others—your parents, friends? Did they think you had lost your mind when you told them the conclusion you'd come to?

Holly: Well, you know, Billy and I really did not think of ourselves as radicals. We were pretty traditional people. God just simply took us to the place where this became an issue in our life.

As we relinquished control of that area, we did receive some interesting reactions. I remember vividly telling my mother that I was pregnant with my fifth child, and she cried.

Now, somewhere between number five and number eight, actually ten pregnancies total—somewhere in there, she just decided we were kind of crazy anyway, and she was not going to worry about it anymore. She actually said to me one time, “If you really want to shorten your life by doing this, I certainly am not going to stop you,” and initially, that was her concern.

Choosing to have many children or to allow God to give you whatever children He desires you to have is not necessarily something you want to do if you want to be free, if you want to have lots of naps in the afternoon, if you want to have an agenda that is simple. Having a houseful of children is not simple, and it is not easy.

Nancy: But, Holly, help the woman who says, “We've already got four children. They're age six and under. I have no time of my own, and besides that, there is no way I could possibly handle one more child. I don't have the energy for it. I just couldn't do that.”

Holly: Well, I'll tell you what I have found, and it's really been an amazing thing. Somewhere in there, about my fourth, fifth child, saying to the Lord one night, “God, I really don't know that I can do this. This is so hard. I am so tired. I never accomplish enough. No matter what I do all day, nothing is ever finished.” I was so frustrated.

I wanted to be involved in ministry, and Billy's mother, who is a very wise woman, one day said to me, “Holly, I know this is frustrating right now, but if you will just raise the children God gives you, God will give you that platform. You will have something to say because you've been there, and you have done that.”

Nancy: Have you found that that's been true?

Holly: I have found that that has been true—not perhaps the platform I would have chosen for myself at twenty because my goals were so different. But what I have found is that now, the life message that I have has been worked into my life through the reality of living that message.

I find that when I sit down with women, because I have eight children, they know that I know what they experience. They know that I know what it's like to be tired and to struggle with relinquishing what I think I need because I have so many demands in my home. What I found was:

  • I really did not need as much time for myself as I thought.
  • I could learn to have a quiet heart even in the midst of chaos.
  • I could hear from God while I was sorting laundry or picking up children's toys or school books late at night.

The quiet moments became very valuable to me, and even sitting up late at night nursing a baby or rocking a child who'd had a nightmare, those times became very precious times when God's Spirit just really ministered to me, not because I had time to go spend hours in Bible study, but because I was, I believe, in the center of His will accomplishing part of what He had called me to do.

More and more my children became a tool that revealed what was in my heart, that revealed the need in my own life, that there is always a need for God to work His life out through me as He lives out His Spirit in me.

Nancy: Really, again, we're saying, “This is the fundamental issue of life, not so much how many children do we have? Where do we live? What kind of car do we drive, but is Jesus Lord of every area of my life?”

I like the way you made that so practical because you said, “We went to the Lord and said, 'Lord, what do You want us to do in this area of our lives?'” You had asked God that question about other areas of your life, but now in this area, there was a new sense of release and relinquishment to the will of God. The fact is, you and I are not totally free until we have released ourselves, our lives, our future, our marital status, our childbearing—every aspect of our lives—fully to the control of Jesus Christ.

Leslie: That's Nancy Leigh DeMoss talking with Holly Elliff about trusting God in every area of life. Do you have thoughts about today's program? You can post yours and read what others have to say. Just visit our listener blog at ReviveOurHearts.com. Click on the title of today's program. It's called, "A Full Quiver." You'll see the listener blog located below today's transcript.

I'm so thankful for those transcripts, and one reason is because you can read from years' worth of programs. That means when you're facing a particular issue, you can hear Nancy's biblical teaching on it, no matter what series we're currently airing.

One listener used the Internet to catch up on some programs she missed. She then wrote us to say these programs saved her marriage. She said, “I was so humbled by my own sin, and I just cried as the Holy Spirit convicted me so strongly about the way I've been treating my husband for the past eight years.”

Well, I want to offer thanks to listeners who help us provide biblical counsel on womanhood and marriage. The listeners who donate to Revive Our Hearts make this kind of life-transformation possible.

From the inception of Revive Our Hearts, we've needed listeners to catch a vision for this program and allow us to continue through their support. If you like what we're doing, we need to hear from you. Would you make a donation at ReviveOurHearts.com or call us at 1-800-569-5959?

Well, tomorrow, Holly Elliff will recount some of the challenges she's had as a mother of eight and tell us how God has given her strength. We hope you can be here for Revive Our Hearts.

Revive Our Hearts with Nancy Leigh DeMoss is an outreach of Life Action Ministries.

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*The following comments do not necessarily reflect the views of Revive Our Hearts. We reserve the right to remove comments which might be unhelpful, unsuitable, or inappropriate.

 

"Beautiful!! We had 5 children in a day when families were limiting to one or two... or none. What a gift from Abba is each one. And now they are having their own children.... an even bigger blessing!
Thanks Nancy & Holly for a very important message and encouragement!"

Hadassah (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 4:18 AM)

"PS
I also was anxious to be on the mission field. Abba spoke firmly to me one day, ' You chose to be a mother, now be one. Be faithful in THIS field and you will raise 5 missionaries! " He was soooo right. No better reward than children that LOVE the Lord and SERVE Him!"

Hadassah (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 4:20 AM)

"HOW FORTUNATE you all are......what do you say to a woman (me) who wanted children but was not blessed with them? I have, of course been blessed with a wonderful Step-daughter but never any of my own. At this time in the world, i sometimes do think that it is a blessing NOT to have children now......it is such a 'mess' out there! But i sometimes wonder WHY have i not been blessed with children? Would i not have been a candidate for motherhood? My mother gave me up for adoption. (was i being punished for her sins?) It can be very confusing."

Melanie (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 6:31 AM)

"Thank you for this program. God has shown my husband and I too that children are indeed a blessing. We gave God control over the womb finally after baby number 4. We now have 5 and can't wait to see what God will do. We love to see how God provides for us when the world tells us it is too hard to raise this many children, and especially on our income. But, God's grace is sufficient and He does take care of His children. He does not call us to do something without giving us the strength and the means to do it. He is a gracious and loving God. My prayers go out to those who are struggling with this decision in their lives.
Thank you Nancy, for bringing out God's word in this Important discussion."

Brook (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 7:32 AM)

"Thank you for speaking on such a sensitive issue. My husband and I are praying aboutthis very topic. We have four children now, I'm 38 years old and we are not sure where we are headed in regards to the size of our family. Age, money, size of our home all come into play as excuses not to have any more. But those do just seem to be excuses. I have been challenged by Holly to search the Scriptures for our answer. Thank you!"

Heather (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 8:04 AM)

"As I read Melanie's comment, I am reminded how burdened down and tried my heart is sometimes and I forget to be grateful for my children. Thank you Melanie for your honesty and how the Lord used you this morning in my life!
Melanie, I say the Lord's ways are higher than our ways and his thoughts are higher than ours. We cannot often explain difficult situations such as this, but you are, nonetheless, beautiful in HIS eyes. As his daughter, you are accepted, called, and a covenant daughter of the God Most High. As you already know, you are no less a woman because you have no physical children. You are no less a woman becasue you were adopted. You are whole, complete, and unblemished in the sight of God. Let not your eyes just focus on having physcial children, but also on the spiritual sons and daughters the Lord will rise up because of your mothering in their life. May you be encouraged and blessed as you seek Him!"

Amy (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 8:30 AM)

"I had a conversation about this very topic with a young lady in my church recently and it definitely caused an uproar. Please pray for the godly people I worship with that they would examine their lives in light of God's Word and genuinely search for His truth. I trust that He who began a good work in them will bring it to completion. Thank you for your ministry!"

Jennifer (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 8:51 AM)

"Boy what another great program today! I must admit I cried when I became pregnant with my third child. My husband and I had four and I'm saddened by the fact I believe I was blinded by my own selfishness during that season of my life, as God's word is so true - children are truly a blessing!"

Jane (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 8:51 AM)

"I am a mother of 13 (9 still at home) and grandmother of 3. We have been home schooling for 20 + years. It is such a blessing to hear programs like this to remember and give thanks again for our "gifts" of children."

Cheryl (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 9:10 AM)

"After listening to your program today I realize that my husband and I haven't given the Lord control of every area of our life. We have been blessed w/3 children. I have the desire for more, but he says "no." I currently teach pre-K @ a private school so that our children can receive a Christian education. When I mention having another child, my husband reminds me that my children would have to go to public school. I'm not trying to condemn anybody who sends their children to public school, please don't think that. I have a friend that has been blessed w/7 girls. God has used her to encourage me to seek His will in this area of my life. It's frustrating that the desire for more children is one sided. Starting today I will seek God and His word for the answer. Thanks Nancy and Holly"

April (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 9:31 AM)

"My husband and I were challenged on this issue when I gave birth to our 3rd child. (I had 3 under 3 years of age). We were considering a "permanent" situation when a brother in Christ who underwent a reversal surgery encouraged us to really think through the consequences of making that decision. What followed was the same realization that surrendering that area of our lives was no different than any other one. Jesus is Lord of all, or not Lord at all.
We have 10 children (one is with the Lord through miscarriage). We home educate them all (4 have graduated from Home School High School). Is it difficult? Many days, yes, but I have learned more than my children have in every way, and God continues to teach me innumerable things.
Financially my husband and I yearly stand in awe of how God has blessed us, though we do sacrifice. We have old vehicles, an old home in the country, we don't go on vacations, don't have a boat, don't travel, etc. What we do have is far superior. Children who love each other and desire to be with each other. A family that laughs, loves and enjoys one another. We have a microcosm of what Christ's church is all about, living daily, breaking bread daily, being blessed daily.
Jesus does not call anyone to an "easy" life. We have incredible struggles and intense times of crying out to God for our children, as well as our marriage. But He has been faithful as we humble ourselves and say, "Jesus, make a way -- help us to continue to trust You.""

Den (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 9:33 AM)

"This topic is so rarely touched on...sadly. My husband and I were convicted about the "number" we had set when we heard a sermon a few years ago by Voddie Baucham. Now, we view our children as wonderful gifts from God, and who are we to turn down a gift from God??? Our oldest is six and we are expecting our fifth child. We have lost four babies to miscarriage, but we count them as "unseen gifts." We have even been blamed for our miscarriages from others saying we had become pregnant too quickly. Are they saying God made a mistake by making me pregnant? Of course, we know that no child is a mistake by God. We disciple our children at home and feel so blessed by each new personality that enters our family. Each child is uniquely and wonderfully created by an amazing God! Thank you Nancy and Holly for touching on this subject!"

Kerry (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 10:00 AM)

"I unfortunately did not get to hear this message, but look forward to today's continuation. I am on the other side of the fence. I have ACHED for years for more children...a quiver full...unfortunately before we bacame Christian's my husband and I played God and chose a vasectomy. We have researched our options and if it were not for financial restrictions we would have had a reversal. My advice to anyone desiring a permanent end to their child bearing options is that if you chose this sin, you will be chosing to suffer the consequences of that sin.
PS I still pray for miracles!!"

Kathleen (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 10:06 AM)

"I listened to this broadcast and still have the tape from a few years ago. I was so excited back then to surrender control! We already had 4 children and my husband was convinced that we should seek the Lord for more children. I was, still am, a subscriber to Above Rubies magazine, which glorifies large families. I was sure I was following the Lord...
Presently, I am pregnant with my sixth baby. My husband recently lost his job, we have had other terrible circumstances befall us. I am now in the situation of attempting to make my tiny cottage business bring in an income. I could live with all of that...I have gone through many trials in my life and am quite familiar with how to deal with them. However, I have also just learned that my husband is a pornography addict. I have come to learn that he has been lying to me for years. Since our marraige began 12 years ago. I feel like a total fool for repeatedly putting my trust in a man who has no love for me. I have forgiven him over and over again. Now, as it is, I can't stand the sight of him. And here I am, a young and healthy woman expecting her sixth baby with no money, no vehicle, no real job, a husband who hates her...don't be fooled into thinking this could never happen to you. I love my children with all of my heart and I am forever glad for the blessing that they are in my life, but I am in the position of not being able to provide for them now! And, lest you think that you have a far more "Christian" husband than I do, nobody would believe what I am going through here in my private "hell". They would never believe these things about my husband. But they are true. And I am putting on a front to all of the women who look at me as such a strong wife and mother. We appeared to be the "perfect" family.
I don't mean to be a downer here. Yes, children are a heritage from the Lord and He is in control, but make sure you have thought through everything before you "throw caution to the wind" and have more children than you alone can provide for if placed in the situation where you have to be the bread winner. It is a terribly stressful time. I don't even know how I will pay to have this baby safely delivered now, let alone keep the rest of my children fed, warm, and a roof over their heads. Reality is not always what we imagine it will be and God does not always shelter us from troubles, even when we are seeking to obey Him."

Jen (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 10:10 AM)

"It was less than a year ago that I first heard of the "quiverfull" concept. At this point, I don't know what to think. I do know (and hope it gets addressed) that even if the wife has this vision, the husband must have it or else she must submit to the husband. In my case, my husband thinks that God gave us the ability to know our cycle (I am pretty aware of when I'm fertile and when I'm not), and He expects us to be good stewards of our bodies. I am currently pregnant with my second child, and we have not set a limit on how many we will have. My dad had 6 siblings and always wanted to have lots of kids. Unfortunately, it seems he didn't discuss that with my mom before tying the knot, because her opinion was, "We're having two. If you want more, you can have them." I have come to dislike this about my mom. I wish she'd submitted to my dad (something she almost never did anyway) and had more. She wouldn't be so lonely now if she had had more.

But I digress... Like I said, I think the wife must submit to the husband's wishes. If the husband isn't godly, or if he just doesn't feel convicted in that area yet, or whatever, it would be wise for her to submit to him rather than trying to "trust God" apart from him. I heard of a lady who had 7 kids when her husband only wanted 2 or 3. He told her if she got pregnant again he would leave her. But she felt it her duty to trust God with how many children she had, and got pregnant again. He kept his word and she's never seen him since.

I also heard about a lady that was trying to follow this counsel, trusting God with how many kids she had, and she ended up nursing two babies while being pregnant with a third, and she said that she felt extremely overwhelmed, what with morning sickness and all. She didn't say what her husband thought on the issue, but like I said, I really believe that this can be a real blessing, but it MUST be something that both husband and wife unite on, not just the wife."

Lisa (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 10:25 AM)

"I feel the same as Melanie. I, too am unable to have children and I often wonder what I did wrong. My mother abandoned my brother and I, so it does make since that I am paying for my mothers sins, yet my sister has just recently been blessed with twins, baby #'s 2 and 3 for her. What could someone say to minister to women who desire to but God has made unable to have children??"

Jessi (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 10:43 AM)

"So many women seem to be struggling with the issue of children in their lives -wanting them, not wanting them. When I was in (Catholic) high school, I was impressed with a friend's family of five children. From that point, I had a longing to have a family of five children. When I met and committed my life to Christ, I already had two (sons) children. My husband never seemed to welcome nor desire children (sadly, I don't recall every discussing them before we married when I was 19). As God would have it (very long story), we had three more children, one more son followed by two beautiful daughters. Imagine my surprise when the high-school "vision" came to pass! However, the sad part about it all is that my husband did not really want all those children (he gave me reasons for his lack of "fathering" much later), and today, he no longer wants me. As I read the earlier comments, most came from women who were blessed to have a husband who partnered with them in the whole family issue. Yes, my husband did what he could (would?) to financially care for our growing family, but money isn't the be-all of life - God is. It has been extremely painful trying to raise five beautiful children in a hostile environment, but my only hope is in the God of hope restoring all that the devil has stolen from our lives. As I wait upon and learn from Him, more and more unto the perfect day, I die daily. Paul certainly knew of what he spoke. All is Christ's and Christ is God's - we are in Christ! "If you are My disciples, ...you shall know the Truth, and the Truth shall make you free". Just a closer walk with Jesus is what we all need, ladies, and so I pray for each one of us that closer walk. Shalom to one and all!"

Linda (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 10:58 AM)

"Well, God bless you Holly!rnI have never been able to get pregnant and I am sureGod knew exactly what he was doing! rnI can't help but feel that there are a lot of people who have children and probably should not have. Granted, they most likely did not pray about whether they should have had them; it was a situation of lust and a child was the result. But where does that leave the child? As much as we would like to think that people will become bundles of patience, kindness and wisdom when they have children, that is not usually the case. There are lots of people who want kids and can't have them and people who do have kids and really don't want or care for them. What's up with that?"

Linda (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 11:05 AM)

"I think it is wonderful to be blessed with many children. However, I often wonder how a message like this must affect the many couples who would like to be parents, desire children, and would like to have at least one child but cannot do to problems with fertility. Also, there are many children who are born into homes where people didn't prevent but who are terrible parents and neglect, even abuse their children. I cannot think that it is God's will that these children are in such dire circumstances through no fault of their own.

Also, what do you say to the parents who feel led to have more children and experience one miscarriage after another?

I appreciate your comments today, but feel the topic was rather one-dimensional."

Amy (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 11:54 AM)

"This program fits into the category of 'one size doesn't fit all.' I agree with several of the previous comments, that there are many couples who desire many children, but have painful and challenging fertility issues. I was one of those women. Hearing two Christian women discuss the topic of having children, and then concluding that the scripture supports that Christian couples have a duty to have as many children as possible, is not only painful, but, I believe, is over spiritualizing a gray area in the Bible. I do not believe God would have such a rigid expectation....example given that Sarah had one son with Abraham. Hannah cried out to God for a child, and was eventually blessed, with one.

What we are expected to do is to love the Lord, our God with all our hearts, souls, and minds....and teach this to our children. It also seemed that the conversation today really down-played the need for women to have any time for themselves, once the children come along. This is one of the biggest misconceptions within the church today, and I encourage anyone struggling with this concept of 'self time' to read a book by Cloud and Townsend, called 'Boundaries'. It is not from selfish motivation that we each need to be an individual whole with God. It is learning to be an whole Woman of God, through teaching and modeling Godly boundaries within our life.

Just because some women are physically able to have one child after another, does not mean that the Bible dictates that is what we are expected to do. Where does that leave those of us who don't fall into that category? There are many children born to families who don't want them, and too many of them are in Foster Care.

I love my 2 daughters, and miss the one in heaven I lost to miscarriage. I feel our quiver IS full....it's just not the same number as others. God calls us to make responsible choices, and I believe having children falls into this category. Interesting....I've spoken to a couple of kids from very large families (6+ in casual conversation...no probing...)and the *one* thing that both of these kids have chosen to say to me is....'there are so many kids, I feel my parents don't have any time for just me...' There's always two sides to every 'large family' story.....and it just seems that parents of alot of kids come across as self-righteous about that....as if God is blessing you more because you have more. Ouch.....

Please don't judge those of us who don't feel the calling, or are unable to 'fill the quiver' to your specifications. I'm thankful for what I have, am doing my best, and very proud of how many children I have. Praise be to God for His goodness and gifts!"

Rebecca (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 12:56 PM)

"I am currently pregnant with my first child and am so excited about it. I was on birth control for 5 years and it was a prayerful decision made between my husband and I. It became an option that we explored due to the fact that my mother was one of nine children and her belief that it is important to make a prayerful decision in this part of our lives. We firmly felt that just as God has given us the opportunity to extend our lives, He gives us the option to have some control over our child bearing. In the Bible, does it not teach that God numbers our days? Yet this does not stop us from taking life extending medicine when we are sick. At the end of the day, I believe that it is up to God, birth control or not, just like anything else we try to do to direct our lives. This is just an option available to us but it is foolish for us to ever believe we are in total control. If I had become pregnant earlier than now, I would have embraced it as God’s will for my life and even now as my husband and I think about more children, I will accept whatever God leads us both to do.

As I said, my mom was 1 of 9 and she had 5 children herself. I am the oldest and two were from a second marriage. I love my sisters and brother but my mother did struggle because my father was an alcoholic so having 3 children with him was not a good situation. As a matter of fact, she lost one at 4 months old because of this. Also, all of my uncles and aunts were not happy about being 1 of 9, especially with the limited resources of my grandparents who were Godly and really believed that birth control was a sin. Either way, I think God does give us a mind and choices and it isn’t a one size fits all solution for everyone. Just as was discussed in this program, I would encourage all to really pray about this and all areas of their lives and seek to submit to God’s will. Do not just go along with what society or anyone says. This is a decision that must be made between you, God, and your spouse. He gives us the personal direction for each of our lives."

Anonymous (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 1:06 PM)

"This was a challenging message to hear today. We are about to have our third child, I am 37. We had three miscarriages previous to this blessings, so I am still in awe when I think that this little one is coming and will be real in a few months. But I do struggle with the thought of stewardship – body, finances, etc… - and wonder is it more putting it in my control on in the Lord's control. I wonder if those who have had many children how old were you with your last few and were those harder pregnancies than others? This is a much different pregnancy than my first two, which were 10 years ago. I do trust the Lord with so many areas of life and I feel our decision to most likely stop with this one is of the Lord, choosing to be stewardly with my body which I believe could not handle another pregnancy. Is that wrong to think that way?

Many blessings on those families with a full quiver and my heart breaks for those who would like to have a child and cannot - but don't ever forget adoption, which is a beautiful picture of how the Lord loves us and how we can love those who need a home."

Deeann (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 1:08 PM)

"Dear Melanie, You are not being punished by God for your mother's sins. This is what God's Word says; "Jeremiah 31:29-31 In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge. But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge." And remember in the evil days at the birth of Moses, God blessed and protected. Hope this helps. "1 Timothy 6:6
But godliness with contentment is great gain."
Love in Christ,"

Leslie.n (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 2:07 PM)

"Wow...I am reading some of these comments and must say that I am a bit confused. This broadcast was about "relinquishing this area of your life to the Lord". It is not about who can have the most children or shame on the ones who cant have any. It is a heart issue. When you turn control over to God....HE IS IN CONTROL. For the ones that can not have children, my heart breaks for you. We have 4 and did not surrender that area to Christ. Now several years later, I would love to have more but can not. There are some of you who are assuming that you are being JUDGED because you can not have children and are being told to have them. That is not what is being said here. God is in control and he has chosen, for some reason, not to open your womb. To those women I would say this...you may not have any biological children, but there is a way to be a mother to MANY. Titus 2 tells us that we should be mentors to the younger women. Teaching them to submit to there husbands, putting husband first, then their children, then their home. If you are involved in a local church (prayerfully you are) then reach out to the young teen girls there or better yet, those in your neighborhood that arent churched. They need to be taught how to be chaste. My children are grown now and this has been such a blessing to me. To have these young girls over and teach them to cook, clean, bake, garden etc. Honeing their hearts to be the wives and mothers that God intended them to be.
The heart of this message came from a women who opened her soul on air to reveal that she herself did not surrender to God and when she did, her life was blessed beyond measure. This should be in EVERY area of our lives, not just child bearing.
Just because you surrender "how many children will I have" to the Lord does not mean that you will have 20. God does not give us beyond what we can bear. That is why he is in control. We are commanded to be fruitful and multiply. That does not extend to the general population. That is to Christians...Little Christs. He wants His chosen people to teach Him to their children and so on and so on and so on. Share the gospel with your children so that the fruits of Christ will be passed on to future generations."

Cackl (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 2:14 PM)

"This was a very one-sided program and it actually made me question my acceptance of birth control. For non-Christians, at least, it is certainly better than abortion. Not thinking through the consequences and carefully planning ahead for children irresponsible. In addition, If we are to "give God control" over all areas of our life, are we also not to take medicine when we are sick?"

Eric (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 2:18 PM)

"Dear Jessi,
I just read your comment. The answer is the same one I mentioned to Melanie. You are not being punished by God for your mother's sins. This is what God's Word says; Jeremiah 31:29-31 In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge. But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge." And remember in the evil days at the birth of Moses, God blessed and protected. Hope this helps. "1 Timothy 6:6But godliness with contentment is great gain."
Love in Christ,""

Leslie.n (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 2:40 PM)

"What great timing for you to speak on this topic. It has been over a month now that I have been noticing how little I have relinquished this area in my life. I have 3 children and I am 38. Not ever having been one to be totally baby crazy, I figured I was done after having 2 boys and at last a girl especially at my age! However my husband does not believe that we are to use birth control. My list of excuses is very long and very much all selfish like Holly said it was for her. Too old, too tired, too much work etc. etc.
I know that when I relinquish the control that I may or may not have more, but my hearts desire is to walk in obedience to the Lord's plan and to trust Him like Proverbs 3:5-6 says. This morning I asked the Lord to show me through His word what He thinks about this subject and as soon as I checked my e-mail I found this subject being spoken about. Praise be to God and I need some time to study the scriptures, but by His grace I will repent, relinquish and walk in the way which He has planned for me.
Thank you so much."

Sandra (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 2:41 PM)

"Dear Ladies,
I have been checking in periodically to see if more women are commenting. It is amazing the response today! So many different views, opinions, with many encouragements, too. Truly, this subject has hit a nerve, and what a blessing that we can air our hearts through this venue. Thank you, ROH! To Jen, who has read "Above Rubies" magazine (I had not heard of it): there are plenty of women who would think what has happened to you could not happen to them. I know - personally. Please know my heart-felt sympathy and prayers that Holy Spirit will come along side you and comfort you as ONLY He can do. Men like your husband are so bound in sin, and desperately need deliverance. Again, my prayers for him/your whole family. Grace to you, dear sister! as you continue to cry out to the LORD, your REAL provider. And to Deeann: I experienced 2 pregnancies in my twenties, and the 3 in my thirties were different in that I had "24-hour" sickness at their beginnings. Thankfully, when the first trimester passed, things went well (though all 5 deliveries were by C-section. My last baby's doctor said that he could see one more pregnancy, but after that, hysterectomy time. So, for those women who can have so many more, their bodies can obviously carry them, praise God!) Our bodies certainly do change from decade to decade, and as I near 60 (!), I can truly attest to that fact! As I hear the cries for understanding of our various situations, I can only point to Jesus, Who of God (our Heavenly Father!) is made to us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption...that we may glory in HIM alone. He IS the Word of God, and in Him, dwells the fullness of God bodily - Wow! As we look to Him, the Author and Finisher of our faith, we can receive the peace that He leaves with us. And from the sound of it, most of us are struggling for that peace. God have mercy on us and help us, I cry, in Jesus' precious and Wonderful Name - Amen! Because He first loved us~"

Linda (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 2:55 PM)

"After reading through these comments, the ones that bother me the most are the ones that mention children being born to those that don't want them or don't care for them. Someone even commented that God wouldn't want children born into such dire circumstances, would He? The truth is, we don't know or understand the ways of God but it would be wise for us to submit to them! Jesus was born to a young girl, hardly ready to be a mother-not even married yet!!! They had no money. They were misunderstood and Jesus was thought to be illigitimate. He was born in a stinky, smelly barn!! This is the Son of God we are speaking of! Yet God brought forth the salvation of many through such dire circumstances.

What makes the gospel such Good News is that through the redeeming work of the cross ANY circumstance can be turned for good. ANY abused child can be used to bring hope. God chooses the precious from worthless, the foolish from the wise.

God is the author and giver of life. God calls ALL children blessings, not just those born to believers or who want them. God works ALL things together for good. God sends rain on the righteous and unrighteous alike. It is carnal thinking to assume we know what God would or would not do. If God is not giving children, who is? The enemy?

We run away from hardships and trials and our flesh wants a comfortable life full of ease. But there is a battle out there and the darkness hates the light.

As for those who desire children but cannot have them, I believe the heart of today's message was to trust God in YOUR circumstance that He has placed you in. Nancy desired to be married but Lord said no. She has surrendered to His will, and here she is hosting a program about children.

We must trust and believe with all our hearts the God is good, desires our best and knows what we need/can handle better than anyone else-yes, even better than ourselves."

Jennifer (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 3:06 PM)

"This is a tough subject on all sides- whether you are able to have children or not. What God sets up as the "norm" doesn't mean that it is his specific will for everyone, as those who yearn for marriage or any number of things that God has not granted, can relate.

As for us, my husband and I have come to even now desire a "quiver full." We have faced much vocal opposition and smears from our family for this. Also, my first child had to be delivered by cecerian, and then so did my second. Then we had an ectopic pregnancy last year and I lost one of my tubes, reducing my fertility. Although extrememly difficult we learned to see God's hand and wisdom and to trust Him. The hardest part were the months that followed when I had to face that it may not be God's will for us to have a larger number of children. God did not allow us to become pregnant with our third daughter (who will be delivered via cecerian Aug 1, Lord willing) until we had surrendered the opposite end of the issue as well. Sara Gabrielle will be born 3 days before we lost Sara Grace, exactly 1 year later.

We also have a strong desire to adopt, and we do not have a specific number of children in mind. However, we do wrestle with the idea of the effect of the cecerians on my body, as I will have (as of Aug 1st) have had 4 operations in just over 3 years, and because of scar tissue will have to continue having cecerians. Are there circumstances in which it is God's will to... wait? Or is it that God knows our situation and is in control of that as well? He did limit our fertility....

And yet I just can't let myself surrender to the notion that any person is not here on earth by the soverign will of God. Or the contradiction that when a young couple gets pregnant when they have planned it, that the child is "a gift from God," but when it happens unexpectedly as a result of sin in a person's life, that it is just "nature taking its course." My father told us that God knows our financial situation and would not want us to have more kids, but as God looks down on us and shakes his head, He'll bless our children in SPITE of our foolish decisions (because He loves our children, even if He didn't want us to have them). It is amazing to me how much NON BIBLICAL "opinions" are accepted in our churches today.

It is so sad that so many families are living with the result of sin in their lives. A husband leaving a woman with many children is an abomination to the Lord. However, the fear of that eventually happening is not a reasonable excuse for disobeying God on a particular subject. And just because a husband sinned does not mean it was not God's will that the children would have been born in the first place. What is obvious, I believe, scripturally, is that God doesn't just plan the number of children, but their personalities, their order, and He who knew these children since before the beginning of the earth, also knew the sin of their parents and the envirionment they would grow in, the challenges they would face as the result of sin, AS WELL as the help they would be given and the grace as well. Just my two cents...."

Becky (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 3:23 PM)

"Does being on birth control mean that you don't trust God or that you haven't "released your womb" to God's control?"

Laura (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 3:50 PM)

"God opens and closes the womb. For those of you without any children, and desire to have children. First, seek the will of God. You have no control of this. Fertility drugs is not the answer. Pray. Rebecca was barren for 20 years. Issac prayed for her continually and she conceived. Rachel was barren, Jacob prayed. Hannah was barren, she prayed. Pray if you desire to have children, seek the Creator of Life and beseech Him to be an instrument to bring forth life.
There are women who are told they will never have children, how is it possible for them to have children anyway, God is in control. We should all walk in humility in all areas of our life. AND not try to seize control. God is in control. Do not covet others blessings, but be thankful for what God has given each of us, and learn to be content. May the love of God be multipled to you, and He bless you with His peace."

Blessing (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 3:55 PM)

"Dear Jen
I was in your position 3 years ago, so my heart goes out to you, and I will be praying for you. God is faithful. He is father to the fatherless, husband to the widow. He will never leave you or forsake you. Wish we could talk. But He will meet your need and minister to your heart. Seek Him with all your heart and trust in Him.
Christine"

Christine (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 3:56 PM)

"This is an encouragement to me as 18 months ago I heard the Lord speaking to me about birth control as well is words to my heart were "I am the giver and taker of life" and I can open and close the womb" I have not used another form of birth control since. Recently my husband and I have prayed about permanent birth contol so this article is an answer to that prayer thank you for this website"

Nicole (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 3:59 PM)

"EDIT:

Fertility drugs in not necessarily the answer or the only.

May we seek our Creator and pray, His will be done."

Blessing (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 4:10 PM)

"We all have our own PERSONAL walks with God. Hopefully, as a man and wife seek God, He will make you "like-minded" on issues such as this. We have 4 children under the age of 6. My wife is very fertile and unable to breastfeed which makes her even MORE fertile. On top of that she's only 28 years old. We believe that surrendering control on this issue will put us right up there with the Duggars from TV. We are afraid that we'll have children every 10 to 12 months and end up with more than 20 kids. She has been feeling conviction and seeking the scriptures, reading forums, seeking Godly advice, etc for about 6 months now. (Ever since we discovered the "Abortive" nature of birth control pills and "breakthrough ovulation"). We immediately STOPPED taking birth control pills and flushed the rest of her prescription mid-cycle. Now we came face to face with putting our fatih to the test about what to do with the rest of our child-bearing years. She has repeatedly told me that she's afraid that I'll seek the same advice and become convinced that we need to surrender this to God and end up with more than a quiver full. I have wavered a lot. I really feel at times that our family is complete, and at times I do not. I have been really considering a vasectomy, but I've held off because my wife is not comfortable with me doing that. I've learned to listen to God speak through the quiet antenna of a Godly woman at times. We have been begging God for confirmation and direction. I just happened to tune into the program at exactly the right time. I see this as confirmation. I believe we are supposed to surrender this to God and prepare ourselves for 20 kids, but we aren't ready to do that. Please pray that God gives us the courage to commit!"

Jim (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 4:10 PM)

"My situation is totally opposite. I desire children so badly. I had a son when I was 19 years old. He is now seven and since then I have married a wonderful man. He is the middle child out of seven children. I am the middle child of five children (all girls). Every month when I anticipate pregnancy and I am not I am hurt, sad, and angry. I read in the bible when Hannah wanted a baby so badly that she cried and cried, and Samuel thought she was drunk. There are other siutations in the bible were women weren't able to have kids and God opened up there womb. I pray every day that God opens up my room. Is it wrong for me to continue to ask and ask. Should I just leave it alone. I don't know if I am being punished for having a child out of wedlock or if I am not just destined to have anymore children. When I hear stories about babies and see babies my desire is just so great. It is so great that I think it is wrong. I love the Lord and I know that he has forgiven me of my sins. So in this case I beleive that I have to release my womb on the fact that he is the creator of everything. Me and my husband have already said that we will not depend on man to help us make a baby. I want to be in His will."

Evon (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 4:10 PM)

"Sorry that was open up my womb."

Evon (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 4:12 PM)

"To Jen,
My heart goes out to you and the pain you must be feeling. I went through a small version of your problem. I have two children and I found out 1 1/2 years ago that my husband had been viewing porn for 6 moths (at that time)... I could not believe the toll this took in my life... I would have never, ever thought that MY husband would do this to me... here is the reality, he did NOT do this to me, he did it to himself. He never thought this would affect me...By the grace of GOD, he was able to repent, stop and worked with me through this issue. I have to tell you, you MUST look for help, for a christian counselor. You both MUST bring this issue to light, do NOT continue living in your 'private hell'. PLEASE look for help. NOTHING is impossible for GOD and he can and will restore your marriage if you let him. He did for me. I took me a full year (for 6 months worth of porn) to go through the emotions and for my husband and I to fix this issue. Today, we are happy again. Praise the Lord! I can look at him and love him again. I can give myself to him again without shame. We are searching a third child, God willing. The winter has passed and are living the spring of life again. Please do NOT blame yourself for his sin but DO look for him WITH him.
About having 6 children, my father passed away when I was little. My mom had 4 children and did not have a job when he passed away. We were living in a third world country so no money, meant NO money... GOD DOES PROVIDE!!! We always had just what we needed and when we needed it. God always placed people in our lives that help us in many different ways. GOD is worth your trust!
I will be praying for you and your husband..."

Celia (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 4:29 PM)

"I have been reading some of the comments and am somewhat distressed by the lack of understanding for individual decisions and situations. I do not believe going on any sort of birth control plan is a sin and do not believe that the Bible teaches that. The command to Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply is, in my opinion, being taken out of context. God does supply all of our needs and can be trusted to do so, but we cannot through ourselves off the cliff and expect God to save us every time. He gives us each the ability to reason and make the decisions that are right for our circumstances and context. I think if He laid it on some individual’s hearts to not go on birth control and let Him decide the number of children and they disobey, then it is a sin but I am not convinced that this is a command to all and so it is sinful for everyone who goes on birth control. Some do try to “plan” not for their own selfish reasons but because they feel this is what is best for any children that God decides to give them.

The Bible teaches many things that would be good for all to follow, yet we recognize that this varies in degree depending on the individual. Many in the early church sold everything and lived in community to help the poor and who can deny the countless verses about helping the poor, yet we are all called to live this out differently in each of our lives. We don’t all go out and sell everything like the early church did because some are led to do that and others are not. I really think that trusting in God does not have to mean that we abandon wisdom and expect God to run our lives like we are robots.

I fully trust God and ask for His guidance daily. I have also read the Bible in its entirety and I really think it is harsh to use words like “repent” for something like the use of birth control without knowing what is going on in each person’s heart. You are not God and do not know the motivations of each individual. Maybe you were doing so for selfish reasons but that doesn’t mean everyone is doing the same so you should not judge everyone so harshly without knowing how God may have led them. Some are led to have children, some simply can’t. I just think we should be kind in how we engage each other on this subject and not judge so quickly and harshly. I believe that all children are a blessing, no matter what circumstance they are born into and am in support of admonishing sinful behavior but I am not convinced that this is sinful. I will pray for those of you who are going through marital distress and for those who cannot have children and want them so desperately. I pray that God holds you up in your time of trouble and will help you get through."

M (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 4:58 PM)

"We encountered this subject about 8 years ago through some godly friends we have the privilege of knowing - they embrace what Holly was discussing on today's program. We have wrestled w/ the subject, wanting to be obedient to God in every area of our lives. However, I never got to a place where I had any peace about it. Instead, it felt like a weight laid about my neck by someone else.

Now, the Lord has definitely and very clearly led us to surrender and obedience in our lives - like the time, when our 2nd child was on the way and we needed health insurance, and the Lord told my husband to stop looking for a job - that He would bring it to him (He did!). Or 2 years later when we were expecting #3 and the Lord very clearly led us to leave his current job and work for our church w/o salary or insurance (that ended up being for a whole year). With those steps of faith and obedience came, yes some fear, but also a strong conviction and assurance of His leading, accompanied with joy and delight, knowing we were going to see His hand and get to know Him in new ways (and wow - we did!). All that to say, the Lord is always wanting our hearts to be surrendered to Him, trusting and obedient, but I believe the venues through which He calls us to walk, to accomplish that work are as varied as the children He has created. In other words, I feel (and this is just my opinion) that what Holly has discussed today is a calling He does indeed give to some, but not to all. I had to wrestle w/ this "some" versus "all" concept with respect to homeschooling also. When my passion and conviction regarding homeschooling were growing, I wrestled w/ the question - should everyone homeschool? I believe the answer is no - certainly He leads some of us to do so, but that is not a calling He gives to all His children.

For me, my heart's response has been an invitation to the Lord to change my heart on this at any time. However, at least for now, we are at peace that this is not something He is calling us to do."

Meredith (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 5:02 PM)

"This is a very painful subject for many people, and as I can see through the comments, we all have different reasons for our pain. I was on birth control for the first 2 years of our marriage. When we found out how the 'pill' worked, we quit immediately. That next year we had our first son - without insurance. We were living in a ministry situation and God supplied the finances we needed. We continued to live and work for this ministry. Money was tight but we never wanted for anything. We did use more temporary birth control because my husband felt we couldn't afford another child. However, as our son grew older, he was lonely and on the advice of my mother-in-law we decided to have another child. Our second son was born when his big brother was 6 years old. Looking back that was too long a gap for them to feel "close" to each other. I discovered homeschooling before our second son was born and my husband fully supported this decision. I poured all my energy into teaching my firstborn and caring for his brother. But I was not patient. I was the 6th of 7 children, but it was not the wonderful experience it is for some people. My father died when I was 5. We all dealt with a lot of criticism and that does affect your parenting, too. I'm don't want to make excuses, I had a lot of growing up to do and I wasn't ready to do it. Anyway, after 10 years of homeschooling and endless struggles with my oldest son, we put them both in public school. It was not a good idea either. At 20 my oldest son is a prodigal and I blame myself for his choice. My husband now feels we should not have had any children, even though he loves them dearly. We have both been broken by our son's decisions and torn about how best to love him, and help him. I am almost 48 and I would like to turn your topic today totally over to the Lord, but I feel I have to be submissive to my husband in this matter. I could use your prayers. Thanks"

R (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 7:10 PM)

"I love most of Ms. Demoss' programs, but this one is just plain bad theology. However many sweet stories we can come up with about women who had lots of children, it's not biblical supportable that the BIble calls all families to open their womb. We have no command in scripture to have large families. We have no commands not to use birth control. When God said, "be fruitful and multiply" that was a proclamation of what would come to pass, NOT a morally binding command. We know this because he spoke that to the animals as well as the people, and obviously animals are not morally bound.

Additionally when Onan spilled his seed God was angry with him because he disobeyed God when God told him to do something, not because of the fact of spilling his seed.

We know that children are a blessing. But so is land? Where are your thousands of acres oh, suburban housewives? Just because something is a blessing does not mean that we should have as much of it as possible, or even just let it come as it may.

Lastly, we do have more clear commands in Scripture for women- the command to honor, obey and submit to our husbands. Every childrearing decision, yes, every single one, should be in the husband's hands. I don't mean that the woman gets "convicted" by a radio show and then spends hour upon hour convincing her husband to do it "God's way." which is her way, not God's way.

I mean that she says, "Well sweetheart, I am in prayer that God would give you wisdom about the next baby, so please let me know what you decide." He may at this point as your point of view, and you may give him your thoughts. But if your husband doesn't want children, or even if he wants to close the womb forever, THAT is your clear command in scripture ladies!!

Too many women have deceived themselves into thinking they were more Godly for convincing their husbands to have more, when in reality, HIS quiver was small./...he was happy with two or three. If we honor and obey the clear commands of scripture, we are much more in line with His sovereign will.

Ladies, don't rush into the idea of an "open womb" because it seems "so much more trusting." Children are a Godly inheritance and God may be asking you to surrender to HIm in this area. But since there is no clear command to have lots of kids, or leave the womb "open," the clear command to honor, obey, and submit to your husband trumps any notion you have of "opening" your womb.

And please- don't be fooled. If your husband says,"I dont' care-it's up to you..." you have some praying to do about how to handle that. That doesn't sound to me like he wants more children at this time."

Sandra (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 8:31 PM)

"I listened very closely for Holly to give out some scriptural texts to support her decision to have a large family. I can not find Bible support for this viewpoint. Could you share some texts with those of us that wish to study this for ourselves? I love it when Nancy presents Bible based principals. This one I believe however is a bit off."

Gloria (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 8:45 PM)

"Wow! This topic really cuts to the core. Several years ago I was one of the women who insisted that this matter be left up to the Lord, no matter what. "No matter what, it is a matter of trust.", I would say. "It is all about OBEDIENCE", I insisted. Well, lets just say that reality can knock you off your feet sometimes. I have several children and a terrible marriage that is falling apart at the seams. My husband wanted all of the children, so it was never an issue of submission. We truly thought we were obeying. We still have not been able to pay for the births of three of our children. No matter how much praying I did, the money never came. It still hasn't. We live on a very tight budget and believe me, I could not cut anything else out. At this point we can't even all drive together to one place because our only vehicle is too small. We live literally week to week on just my husband's income. Life is very difficult and our children notice. They live in it, too. I do what I can to earn extra money, but that is very difficult to do with a house full of young children. No dance class, no piano lessons, no nothing. You might be thinking that those things don't matter. Well, when you have to tell each of your children "no" for simple requests time and time again because you don't have a spare penny in your pocket, it seems like a pretty big deal. I long to give my daughter piano lessons. I dearly wish my young sons could play soccer with their friends. They are all good children and they say they understand, but I see the disappointment in their eyes. It kills me.
I have changed my mind on this issue, needless to say. While I cannot condone the use of most birth control methods that are obviously just an early form of abortion, I do heartily recommend natural family planning unless your circumstances are such that you can handle any amount of children. You can't just assume that God will provide miracles for you. It doesn't always work that way. Unless you are well prepared to accept what may await you once you have them all...don't be swayed by other people's opinions. I have been on both sides of the street now. It is very easy to stand on one side and judge the people on the other...beware or you might find yourself in a situation that you never dreamed you would be in. Take it from me. I would not trade any of my children for the world and I consider them to be blessings, but I dread what will happen when they grow up and resent me. I do the best I can, but the Lord has not cut me any slack lately. I know that sounds terrible, but sometimes I listen to these radio broadcasts and it sounds like God is just always going to bless us if we do "the right thing"...but who are we to decide what the right thing is? And, especially for women, sometimes you might be trusting the Lord and drawing near to Him while your husband is doing just the opposite. You have that to deal with. The sins of the husband can destroy a family. Until you have lived through it, like several of the women on this post have, you do not understand the decisions that they must make."

Marie (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 8:57 PM)

"I see the very opposites of perception and understanding here... First of all might I say, Holly your testimony is a blessing and Marie (first commentator) you are also so right! The blessing of the Lord makes rich, and He adds no sorrow with it. Children are a blessing but they are to be raised in a united household - because God desires godly offspring from your union and not from your separation! I love children, I have one. When I started to really seek the Lord and study His word, I was in a bad marriage and struggling with raising my daughter... I'm very hard working, and very giving so I don't believe selfishness was an issue - but deep down, I knew something was not right. I asked the Lord and the Spirit told me simply - Your house is divided! As I delved deeper and deeper into God's word and gave up more and more of the things that I thought I had control over, my marriage became worse and worse. Then I came to the issue of having more children, I asked the Lord what He wanted and the Spirit told me - "which of you would build a house, but consider not first if he hath enough to finish it - lest he start to build and be unable to finish and people come by and mock him saying - this man started to build but was unable to finish." My marriage could not support more children, mine was suffering severe emotional pain already. Children are a blessing - not a curse! Isa 65:23 as part of the promise of the new covenant says: they shall not labor in vain nor bring forth children for trouble...for they shall be descendants of the blessed of the Lord and their offspring with them. Well to cut a very long story short, my husband left us and my daughter has blossomed ever since - but what else?
As most people would, I immediately started to generalize, but the Holy Spirit reminded me that "Children are a blessing - babies are a reward" happy is the man whose quiver is full of them, they shall surround his table.. he shall speak with his enemies in the gate." I'm thinking "okay?" I was a little confused... should I have tried to stop my husband from leaving, had more children, done something differently? But the Lord who is always faithful and never makes a mistake, promised me that I would have more children as a widow than as a married wife! And He has kept His word, I have so many children in my life - not that I bore them physically, but God has allowed me to sow into their lives spiritually and I feel they are part of my household. One day I looked up and wow! there were literarily, children surrounding my table - eating ice cream!! Glory Hallelujah.
It is not every blessing that is meant for every person or situation but if God gives you a peaceful, united God fearing, God serving home and have given Him total control of your lives, He just might bring 8 children out of it - providing everything that is needed to raise them godly for Him. Remain blessed!"

Iris (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 10:05 PM)

"A husband's comments....
I hurt for Marie and Jen.
First to Jen, I WAS the husband addicted to porn. I (through a Life Action campaign at our church) repented and confessed to my wife. I had not only been porn addicted, but had even fallen in the area of fidelity. The confession was years after the fall, but it still nearly cost us our marriage. Yet in the midst of that difficulty, God put in our path another family in our church in the identical situation. We were able to counsel them (that was really difficult for us in the hurt and immediacy or our own problems) and they are also, years later, still married and serving the Lord. It was NOT easy! It HURT a lot. My wife had a TERRIBLE time dealing with it. I cannot urge your husband enough to deal with it COMPLETELY. He must leave porn completely alone. He cannot just play with it a little, even as a cocaine addict cannot just use a little cocaine. As to you Jen, you need to find your solace in God. You CAN rebuild your marriage. We did, and believe me it was NOT easy. It took years (it's now been over 17 years) to get past the hurt and distrust, but it can be done. Forgiveness is something you must do completely if he confesses to you and asks for forgiveness. That means you do NOT hold it against him. That's REALLY tough to practice, but it is Bible. I also caution him to be totally transparent with you. He must be willing to answer ANY question ANY time with TOTAL honesty. That is what we practiced and it allowed my wife to rebuild the trust I had so sorely broken. I will be praying for you.
As to your comment about needing to be sure you can provide for the children, it is a fallacy to believe any of us can provide for any of our needs. That statement unfortunately points to a belief in our selves, not in God. I lived through a very difficult time raising 8 kids, so I know exactly what it is to do with little or nothing and trust God in finances even as we were struggling. Unfortunately, many of our decisions in finances are not God's will in our lives, and we wind up paying for our actions. I do not accuse you of this, but our lives certainly showed the truth of that. God was faithful and although we did with VERY little, God did provide in sometimes miraculous ways.
To Marie, I say that I am sorry to hear of your difficulties. As the father of eight living children, living most of our lives in what you would call poverty, I hasten to add that doing with little is NOT bad for kids. It is bad to allow kids to believe they are somehow not as good as others because they have less or do less. We are now doing better financially, but we still live on a very tight budget. My kids are learning the real value of money and the lack of importance of material things. We do lots together, but we do things that cost little or nothing. I grew up in a very large family, and we had VERY little. As to the ball playing, the one time my parents put me in little league, it was the one of the WORST experiences of my life. Kids can be VERY cruel, and they were in this case. As to dreading your kids resenting you when they grow up, that happens more in affluent families than "poor" families. Although I am a firm believer that you do not spoil kids by what you give them, but by withholding biblical consistent, loving discipline, it has more often been the case that affluent parents allow what they can give materially to substitute for what they should give of themselves. I pray that God will encourage you in your difficult time, and that you will cry out to Him even as David did when he felt as though God had forgotten him. As to your comment about natural family planning, I ask how you align that with the statement in the Bible that we are commanded to "abstain not (from intimacy) except for a time of prayer and fasting, then come together again lest Satan temp you"? I hear that you are hurting and crying out, but I fear you are looking for answers in your own wisdom, not God's. "Lean not on your own understanding; in ALL your ways acknowledge Him, and He will make your paths straight." I pray you will continue to seek Him. (I also recommend Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace University, as it really changed our lives.)
God Bless and Comfort You in this time."

J (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 10:26 PM)

"Dear Sisters & Brothers,
I listened to the message online twice today. I did not hear Holly or Nancy judging anyone. On the contrary, the point was brought up, first by Holly and than elaborated upon by Nancy, that as Christians we ought to have a Berean spirit towards seeking and knowing God's will as individuals. (Acts 17:11) It is true that maybe individuals may easily misinterpret God's will for Holly & Billy to be His will for them, but in all fairness this was not stated. May I humbly suggest if you are able to that you listen to today's program again online? Sometimes we don't get it all the first time... Then again we all are quick to hear, but not really listen... and are even quicker to be on the defense. May each of us allow God's Holy Spirit to be our comforter and guide."

S (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 10:36 PM)

"Holly said...What they did was really challenge us to do what someone had challenged them to do, which was to pick up our Bibles, become like Berean Christians . . .

Nancy: And Berean Christians were those who didn't just accept the apostles' teaching. They went back to the Scripture and checked it out for themselves to make sure that what the apostles were saying was really consistent with the Word of God.

Today, I feel inspired to go back to the scriptures myself and address my own situation. There were no verses mentioned next to what the Bible says about children. I must go on my own and seek out what God says. We have had four children along with 2 miscarriages in 6 1/2 years. I am 36 and too struggling with knowing if my body can handle any more pregnancies as this last one hinted at complications that God in the end gracefully allowed us to avoid.

I have noticed today so many words from hurt or judgement. What we all have to realize is that we in our own walks have to seek Him in all areas of our lives. We have to make sure we are walking according to His Word and His will.

We can do all things through Christ who strengthens us. We must surrender it to Him."

Kathryn (on Monday, July 7, 2008 at 11:02 PM)

"What an amazing testimony!
I am the oldest in a family of 12 and I CAN'T WAIT until the day I'm married and have a 'full quiver' (if God chooses to bless in that way)
I hope that many many families in the church today catch the vision to let the Lord number their familes! 'The fruit of the womb is HIS REWARD!'"

Shanna (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 12:04 AM)

"My heart alternately rejoices and aches as I read these comments. To the women in difficult, crushing circumstances, I offer my prayers. Sisters, remember that the Lord is the true Father of your children, and He can redeem the direst situations. He did not give you those babies to watch them suffer. He will provide. These women should not be left floundering! This is where the CHURCH should step in and minister to the widow and the orphan (or those left as such by the failures of husband and father).

As a mother of five who is sometimes scared by the thought of more children, I've been wrestling with this issue. It is tempting to be swayed by the seeming wisdom of those who point out matters of practicality, or the fact that there isn't a verse condemning birth control, per se, in God's Word. But in these cases I think we also have to consider what else isn't stated: never, to my knowledge, is it called "wisdom" to limit the size of one's family. God gives us common sense, yes, but we need to honestly assess whether our common sense is being influenced by Scripture or by the world around us. Tough questions!

I would add one more thing on another note. It never has to be an issue of "if we have more kids, we won't be able to afford a Christian education". I encourage families to explore the glorious option of home discipleship! It's not as crazy as it sounds. Believe me, if I can do it, anyone can (with God's help, of course).

Blessings in Christ!"

Kristin (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 12:46 AM)

"What an answer to prayer! I have been thinking over the past couple of months that I should email Nancy at ROH to see if she would consider airing a program on just this issue. I never got around to it, but apparently God was working on it! Thank you, Nancy for addressing this issue from a Biblical standpoint. And, thank you, Holly, for being willing to share your story. It has been a blessing so far. I can't wait to hear the rest of this series!

I know it was in August, and I just think it might have been 2003 when Holly was on then and talking about this issue. I don't know if this is a replay, or just the same issue, but I was very touched by that program, and have never forgotten what I learned then. Our fourth child is 5 1/2 months old right now, and we are very much in the same stage that Bill and Holly were after four. And, the attitudes of some of our closest family and friends is that we should be done by now. Some days I want to heed their advice because I am so tired and never caught up, but there is always this little tug in my heart that says, "I will give the strength that you need to go on. Don't worry about tomorrow. Trust me.""

Heather (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 3:41 AM)

"What an awe inspiring topic! My heart goes out to pray for all those who believe that God can give or take away. For He is Lord of all or not Lord at all! I've had the awesome priviledge of carrying one child to birth and then, we adopted twins boys. After a long wait between both, we thought we would never have any more children in our lives, but God had a special plan for us. He only asked if we would be patient and if we would accept his children even if they had special needs. This was a tough thing for us at first. He kept prompting us by His word and promises of provision in any case of hardship. We love children and decided to obey what He was asking of us by blind faith, not knowing exactly what to expect. If someone were to say to us we made a mistake, we would definitely have to testify that God does not make mistakes! God knows what he's doing even if don't fully comprehend what He's up to. We may never understand His ways, but we can surely trust that He knows what He's doing with His children. For who knew that the greatest challenge in our lives would trun out to be the greatest blessing of all?

Never give up hope and trust in God!"

Gift (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 3:57 AM)

"This is such a timely and personal message to me. My husband and I have been struggling with this issue, and have come to the conclusion over and over again that God really is in control, and knows our situation and needs concerning children. This is such a perfect confirmation to all that God has revealed to us. Some of the scriptures and comments that Holly made are exactly some of the things I've said to my husband - almost to the word. We have recently stopped using birth control, unsure of what God has in store for us, but confident in His provision. My mother thinks I'm crazy too. haha"

Amanda (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 9:16 AM)

"What a wonderful show!
18 years ago, my husband and I decided *on our own* to have only 2 children. We had a vasectomy, but within the year following, *God* totally changed our hearts and within 2 years, we had a vasectomy reversal.
We are now expecting our 8th baby AND 6th "reversal" baby! I have also had 3 miscarriages, so this is my 9th *reversal* pregnancy!
I am 42 and my husband is 43 and it is not as easy on my body as it was when I was younger, BUT the reward and sacrifice is worth it all!!!!!!!!!!!
We cannot imagine our lives without our last 6 children. When we look at who we would have missed out on if we would have left things the way *we* planned, we are both grieved and then joyous. God is so good to show us HIS plan if we are only willing to listen."

Kim, (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 9:32 AM)

"Might I add another comment - as the chain gets longer and longer... Ladies, you are all extremely blessed! If you're just joining the conversation, read the comments and you'll see what I mean - faith story after faith story each one as full of conviction and as inspiring as the next.... I guess it just goes to prove that a person's relationship with God is a very personal thing. It should be scriptural nevertheless but remember, the Holy Spirit interpretes the word of God to our hearts in a quickening. Seek His help, understanding and wisdom and He will let you know the best path for your life. When you follow it, you don't have to defend yourself to anyone, no matter how spiritually advanced they may seem. In any case, your testimonies are a tremendous blessing all of you and I think we at least owe Nancy and Holly a thank you for sparking off the discussion.... or we might have never had a chance to give our testimonies. Be blessed.... Abraham's blessings are your's whether in the flesh or in the spirit... whether biologically or adoptively... God is an awesome God!! He is good and everything He does is good!"

Iris (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 9:41 AM)

"The night before this broadcast, I approached my husband telling him that I really felt like we had made some mistakes on building our family based on what other people would think if we had more kids. I told him that I had always questioned my motives in trying to prevent getting pregnant. (We have four children. Two biological & two adopted) I had allowed my fear of man to hinder my trusting God for the outcome. As I listened to Holly speak, I was overwhelmed with conviction over how myself & my husband had simply not totally included God in this area of our marriage. My list of excuses was long...one income, homeschool family, small house, almost 39. But when you put all that up against Gods word, the answer is clear. Thank you for being an answer to prayer. Even if it goes against the grain of what the world thinks."

Kristen (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 10:33 AM)

"Let us remember Romans 8:28 "All things work together for good to those who love God and are called according to His purpose." Thanks to all of you who have shared your heart on this blog with humility and love for the Lord and His precious children. Be blessed in Christ Jesus!"

Gift (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 11:04 AM)

"I wholeheartedly agree with Nancy's teaching today, and I believe that children are an heritage of the Lord (Ps. 127). However, I do not believe that this means that birth control is wrong. My husband and I are newlyweds and we prayed about this issue, as well as seeking godly counsel from parents and pastors. We were counseled to use birth control. My husband is continuing his education as well as working full time and I am a homemaker who works part-time. We would be overjoyed if God chose to bless us with a child today, but we feel as if He would have us to wait a little longer. By not launching into child-bearing immediately after marriage we have been able to firmly establish our marriage on the foundation of Christ. Though we knew each other VERY well from our dating years, things still change when you get married. You have to learn to communicate and live with another person. I have been able to focus on becoming a godly, submissive wife because I don't have a child to take care of. This is how we were counseled and we feel it was the Lord's leading in our lives."

Andrea (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 12:21 PM)

"This program has been incredible! My husband and I decided to stop using birth control over two years ago. I echo what Holly said about being able to just *live* together as husband and wife after that. Wow! I'm SOOO glad you are doing this program and spending so much time to carefully weigh all the deep issues. This is an excellent presentation!"

Stephanie (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 1:08 PM)

"I want to thank Revive our Hearts for being brave enough to tackle this topic. I had my tubes tied 7 years ago. I have 7 children, and two that did not live. Honestly, we prayed, but I feel I allowed myself to be decieved because I was afraid of what would happen if I continued to have children. Would people judge me? How would we care for them. I now realize that what I saw as temporary problems, God could see the eternal value in. I have repented and encourage other women to really study the Word, and be brave enough to trust God with their bodies. He cares for us even more than we could care for ourselves. I do have to say, that going through this journey with our precious Savior beside me has gently humbled me and I am so glad for John 3:17.

I know many precious babies will be born and come into the kingdom due to this program."

Christina (on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 at 10:00 PM)

"A Word about “Birth Control”,
There is a reason it is called "artificial" birth control. I wish I had had this message from Holly 16 years ago when my marriage began. One can never underestimate God's power to heal, but having this message and this understanding of how He desires our marriages to be full would have saved my marriage much turmoil. Holly said in this presentation that it took someone to challenge her to seek God's truth in this matter. I challenge anyone using artificial birth control to fully seek God's truth regarding the awesome power of the "marital embrace" with His will at the center. God designed our bodies and He has even given us full understanding of that design. If one feels the need to help God with this area of your life, He has given us NATURAL ways to help while remaining open to His ultimate plan. Seek His ways before using man’s ways. Man’s ways are truly artificial and destructive."

Sue (on Wednesday, July 9, 2008 at 8:42 AM)

"I have read/scanned most of these posts and listened to the discussion from Mondays full quiver. I caution you ladies to be careful about condemning those on Birth Control. There are some of us that don't get a choice. I haven’t heard one of us post yet so I will. I have a "female disorder" where in my body creates little uterus' inside my body. This creates unbearable pain, scaring and infertility. I have lost count on how many surgeries I have had to endure to remove the scar tissue build up...I have had 5 periods now since 2004. One just before my son was conceived and 4 before my current unborn child. I have had an ovary and tube removed due to cancerous cells inside, and have been on menopausal drugs to force my body into menopause for 6 months (I was 24). Since the drugs I have not been allowed to have periods unless trying to conceive. After my son was born I wasn't even allowed to have another period and was put back on birth control immediately to prevent my body from having a period. While I do believe that we are to seek Gods will in everything I do believe we can do this while on birth control. God will lead you in the right direction at the right time especially if you do suffer from painful diseases. I don't believe that condemning birth control is a safe or smart. As I said I take continuous birth control (no periods allowed) I am also considering a full hysterectomy as soon as God, my husband and I feel that the natural children are finished. This does not mean my family is complete! I have always felt lead to adopted and feel that my family will continue to grow through this means in the future. Please don't dismiss birth control some of us really do need it for medical reasons no just as a birth control method. By the way I am pregnant with my third child after being told before my first I might not have any. Gods will."

Tammy (on Wednesday, July 9, 2008 at 12:40 PM)

"How wonderful that you are approaching the topic. Indeed what does scripture say? That should be our view on life period.

As for chemical bc (as well as the IUD) many don't know that they can cause early abortions in your body. That is one of the ways it works. No one knows how often that can happen but that is one reason that chemical birth control is a sin. Read the packet insert of go to planned parenthood's website and you will see that it makes your uterus lining so thin that an egg that has been fertilized will not stick to the lining so it will die=baby will die. So there is no reason to be on bc unless one isn't married/s*xually active and is using it for medical reasons but if you have to be on it like the lady listed below, what about the fact that these medications can cause an abortion? I think If I had to prevent from having children I would have to get sterilized as that doesn't end a life. Or the hubby so that there is no risk in the meds causing an abortion?

I was on chemical bc for 6 years when I was a teenager for medical reasons. I stopped taking it prior to getting married and we lost our first child to a miscarriage. We've had several other children since but we've also had several miscarriages most close to that time. I have to wonder if the pill that I took for so many years couldn't have caused my miscarriages. I have looked back into the history of the pill and the people who started it targeted low-income and people of color. Neither of those were with a godly perspective. What was the purpose? Was it scriptural. Certainly not. God loves children and says, "Be fruitful and Multiply." He never took that back.

God bless your ministry!"

Pam (on Wednesday, July 9, 2008 at 1:05 PM)

"Yes, it would be most beneficial for all our sisters in Christ to learn more about the hazards of BC and IUDS and other forms of dangerous birth control that can cause the Body of Christ serious injury or death. Maybe Nancy can address this topic on another series where we can address these issues at length. We all have a story to tell for God's Glory."

Gift (on Wednesday, July 9, 2008 at 4:28 PM)

"I really appreciate this program. We have been slowly learning about this topic over the last several years and have so far relinqueshed control of the size of our family to God. I wonder if you could share some of the scriptures you used to become convinced this was what God wanted you to do?"

Stacy (on Wednesday, July 9, 2008 at 4:42 PM)

"These programs could not have been more timely for me!! I am now overdue a few days with our 7th child...... and picked up the program on my way to my midwife appointment......all the while feeling so discouraged from the lack of support from family and even in the Church. My husband just recently changed jobs, and we have never had insurance for any of our children or any medical problems they have had. It is unreal how the Lord himself has taken care of us!! Not only supplying our needs , but many of our wants also. I could go on and on of the stories of his provision and supplying the desires of our children. God is so good, and if we put our complete trust in him....he does provide. Currently, my husband started a new job and how that all came about is again the Lord's provision. I do have days of struggling with strengh and energy as we homeschool and I am getting older now (38), but on those days I am weak, I just cry out to the Lord for strengh......literally, and he provides. I am days from delivery and even my midwife says," Children are a blessing....I wish I would have started sooner myself and not listened to the world and it's thinking. " We need to pray for the women of our country and each individual situation that the Lord would be honored and lifted up in all of our daily decisions. Holly and Nancy, thank-you for being an encouragement and support......one of the few....for me during this pregnancy.....God richly bless you for dividing the word rightly. For those of you who want more children or who are unable to for whatever reason, God has a different plan for your life.....we must remember, His ways are not our ways.....and enjoy and nurture /disciple the ones He has blessed you with."

Lori (on Wednesday, July 9, 2008 at 8:37 PM)

"I have to say I agree with those who have commented about taking caution on this subject. I think this could easily become a "holier than thou" issue in our hearts, especially when dealing with those who have trouble conceiving or have been unable to do so. While I have greatly appreciated this ministry, I implore you to be cautious to not divide believers over an issue that God neither directly commands nor forbids in His Word.

I have been blessed with four children in less than 4 1/2 years and (obviously, I think) have not used birth control up to this point. However, my husband is an unbeliever and, after the birth of our fourth, has firmly reiterated his complete lack of desire for any more children at this point (we're only in our late 20s). After much study and prayer, I have come to the conclusion that, while God has said that children are a blessing direct from Him, He really remains pretty silent on how many each married couple "should" have and whether or not we can "control" that number (knowing that God can create a child if He wants one to be there, even with the use of artificial or natural birth control). However, He does command me to submit to my husband and, since this is a direct command, I believe that to take primary importance.

Also, I have a very dear female Christian doctor friend who has told me repeatedly that, from a medical standpoint statistically speaking, a sexually active couple using no birth control is likely to have more miscarriages (early on that they may not even recognize as such) than a sexually active couple on birth control (specifically in this posting, when I say "birth control", I'm speaking of the pill).

May we all be careful to search the Scriptures for ourselves and not rely wholly (as beneficial as it is) on the teaching of others."

Laura (on Thursday, July 10, 2008 at 9:37 AM)

"Hmmmm....so many opinions! I see the points on both sides. Children are such a blessing. I always want to see my children that way. Growing up I always felt like I was an expense to be gotten rid of. I always try to think of my children as my inheritance - for when I am old. I won't be alone. I don't think any of us can understand why God allows some to have children and others to have so much trouble having them. I am one of those that get pregant extremely easily and although I don't set a # in my head I do have this fear that if I let God be in control I would be pregant for the rest of my life (or nursing), both of which are extremely painful for me for various reasons. But anyhow I have always wondered if Adam and Eve used some sort of natural birth control such as knowing her cycle because there is seem to be a space in between her children. Seeing how she was the first woman and perfect I wonder why she didn't have one every year. In fact in when men lived to be 900 years old a lot of them didn't have their first child until they were over 100. Just something to think about for you scripture seekers! I believe that every child that God intended to be born will be - we can't stop that."

Charity (on Thursday, July 10, 2008 at 11:34 PM)

"Although I am only 15 years old, listening to this prgram has made me excited for the future ahead. I hope and pray that my future ahead will be one with a loving, Christian husband; and as many children as God will give me. I always say I want more than four. Who knows what God's plan is. Thank you again, Nancy, for your ministry. It is a great encouragement for the old and young. I hope to take notes from this brodcast, and look at them again and again in the future."

Jennifer (on Friday, July 11, 2008 at 3:14 PM)

"I have written before, but have never written my name. I am blessed with one child who is eight years old. Lately, I have often wondered if God wants to bless us with more. In the past, doctors warned me not to have any more children, saying that I would die or the baby would or both because of my medical condition. Not always trusting doctors' opinions, I am not sure this is true and I know God can intervene in any situation. My health condition is a little different now, although I am overweight and do not have much energy. I am sure a pregnancy would still present a risk (as in really all pregnancies). I could not lift my daughter very well when she was about two, and I still feel weak. There are many aspects of childrearing that I dreamed of enjoying that I now can't, like lifting my child and running with my child, etc. Does anyone have any advice about having a child at about 38-39 years old with a health condition? Also, my relationship with my husband is like a sailboat in a vast ocean with rising storms."

Mother (on Friday, July 11, 2008 at 7:37 PM)

""I listened very closely for Holly to give out some scriptural texts to support her decision to have a large family. I can not find Bible support for this viewpoint. Could you share some texts with those of us that wish to study this for ourselves? I love it when Nancy presents Bible based principals. This one I believe however is a bit off."

I totally agree with this comment. As an organizer of my church women's group I thought (along with the other women) that it was a good idea to use Nancy's resources for our women's retreat this year because all the topics she covered in the past had such sound biblical support.
All this changed when we read about the quiver full viewpoint through the book "Lies Women Believe". We (as a group) were surprised and saddened to see that this one topic was covered with so very little biblical support. The radio programs on the subject also left us with no actual bible principals. We can understand how these couples came to the decision to have a large family, but where is the actual biblical support? Wanting to study a bit more on my own I read the book written by Mr. and Mrs. Hess and yet again I was surprised at the lack of biblical support. If you take away their opinions in this book on the subject, you are left with nothing. Please consider covering this topic again but with biblical texts that support this viewpoint. Those of us who are now confused about this issue would greatly appreciate it.
Thank you for all the work you do!
Belky"

Jedbel (on Sunday, July 13, 2008 at 2:55 PM)

"I listened to the program and I'm not sure or maybe just fighting Gods will. My husband doesn't believe in birth control. I don't want to go behind his back. But we have 6 children already. 3 are step children. I want to give this to God but to be pregnant all the time in hard. Are youngest is 2 1/2 month, 22 months and 3years old, the others are teens. It's hard to surrender, to give this to God. It really helped me to know I'm not the only one who feels this way. I love my children and will have more but I just would like to wait a year or two. It's also hard cause of the things people say to me, even people in our church are so negative. It bothers me to hear people tell me these things. Thank you for helping me know I'm not the only one."

Liz (on Tuesday, July 15, 2008 at 11:54 PM)

"Where there is life there is hope and although no one can be the perfect parent is there not some value in providing the chance of life? Many people today seem to think a child in difficult circumstances would be better having not been born, but that is never the case. I myself was born to a young single mother, she was an alcoholic during my growing up years. I now have 5 precious children of my own and certainly wish I was a better mother and had a better foundation for the journey I am on, but the grace of God abounds in our lives when we seek to honour Him. There can be no perfect terms for making this choice, it is simply a willingness to step out and know that He will catch you. And as Christians, in a culture filled with death should not we be the ones providing life, not only spiritually but literally.
My heart aches for those ladies that are struggling with infertility or have experienced miscarriage (which I myself have also) but please cling to the fact that nothing is outside His will and He uses these circumstances to mold us into something beautiful. Every Christian has painful struggles in different areas of life, which is the Lord's doing to make that particular person more like Christ, yet it seems in the area of having children there is an expectation that He wouldn't use that. This is really a reflection of that foundational belief in the Church today, that we are in control of this area and God should keep His hands off. Trusting the Lord in this area means trusting Him when He doesn't give children as much as when He does and knowing that all things work together for good.
In my study of this subject I find that is a theme that is woven throughout the Bible as it is God's heart. There are not so many clear cut scriptures, but it is clear through many of the accounts of God's people in the Older Testament and also looking historically at the Jewish people.
I just wanted to make a comment about the Boundaries book. Jesus poured out His life as a living sacrifice for us, so I don't think He would be considered to have had healthy boundaries. Although I understand where the lady is coming from there is nothing Biblical about psychology."

Tracy (on Friday, August 1, 2008 at 7:09 AM)

"Wonderful. I will link my site to this at www.strongquiver.blogspot.com
Thanks again for a great message"

Emma (on Wednesday, October 1, 2008 at 4:01 PM)

"I enjoyed reading both the broadcast discussion & all the comments. - All good/stimulating food for thought. And very touching personal stories of love, hurt, faith, & God's faithfulness through them!
Its heart-warming to see all the caring support you show each other in these comments!
I add my voice to the call for a clear case to be made on the basis of specific scriptural texts, for any position being promoted. As well as presenting the opposing biblical arguments. Personal accounts, testimonies, viewpoints, assertions, etc., however dramatic, should always take 2nd place to God's word in determining His will.

I want to recommend Nancy's book SURRENDER to everyone!! I'm buying more copies of it to give away (which is what brought me back to this website). God really used it to touch me in a time of great need: separated & now in process of being divorced by my christian wife after 22 yrs. of marriage, & (now) 2 yrs. of separation. We have 4 (homeschooled) children. We all need your prayers / God's intervention, as well as our full surrender if our marriage is to be saved. - Thank you!!!"

David (on Monday, October 13, 2008 at 6:13 AM)

"We no longer get Revive our Hearts on our area station, and miss Nancy very much. Only recently have I been able to pull it up online, but it is not convenient to stay in the study to listen. I am now in my midfifties and my husband and I allowed pressure from family and our church body to dictate how many children we had. We permanently stopped at 4. We both have regretted this decision that was not taken to the LORD. Children are a great Blessing that we limited the LORD on, but most importantly bringing every area under HIS control is paramount to being in HIS will."

Carol (on Saturday, April 4, 2009 at 4:39 PM)

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