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Daily Program

Giving Back to a Generous God

Series: The Treasure Principle by Randy Alcorn

Wednesday, May 27 2009

Leslie Basham: Is it okay to say no to giving opportunities so we can say yes to day-to-day items? Here’s Randy Alcorn.

Randy Alcorn: We do have legitimate needs, and God does care about our needs, and God will provide for our needs. God will also take upon Himself the responsibility to provide for us when we stretch ourselves.

Leslie: This is Revive Our Hearts with Nancy Leigh DeMoss for Wednesday, May 27.

Nancy Leigh DeMoss: You can’t take it with you, but you can send it on ahead. Well, that’s what Randy Alcorn calls the treasure principle. He’s written a wonderful little book by that title, and the subtitle is Discovering the Secret of Joyful Giving.

Randy has been with us on the program all week. And Randy, thanks for joining us again today on Revive Our Hearts.

Randy: You’re welcome, Nancy.

Nancy: Again, I just want to thank you as an author and speaker and former pastor, you’ve been responsible for shepherding people’s lives. Thank you for addressing this subject. We need to hear a lot more about giving.

I find that I need regular reminders of God’s heart as it relates to giving because I’m so prone to lose my focus on eternity and to begin to become consumed with things of time and space and forgetting that this world is not my home.

As the old song said, “I’m just a passin’ through.” You’ve reminded us of that so powerfully in this little book that I hope every one of our listeners will order, and I don’t say that very often about a book.

But this book, as I said earlier this week, is worth more than its weight in gold. You’ll want to get a copy for yourself. You’ll want to get some other copies, perhaps to share with others. It’s called The Treasure Principle. The author is Randy Alcorn.

Randy, earlier this week we talked about a number of biblical principles as it relates to giving and how it’s an antidote to materialism. We talked about: 

  • Our heart always goes to where our treasure is.
  • The importance of laying up treasures in heaven rather than here on earth.
  • The joy of giving God’s way. We’re never more like God than when we are giving.

But today I want to help some of our listeners in even a more practical way by asking you some of the questions that I think they may be asking as they’ve been listening to the program this week.

As we talk about giving—keeping in mind that our program is targeted towards the spiritual need in lives of women in particular—I can hear some woman saying, “I really have a heart to give. I’d love to be able to give more. But I’ve got a husband who is either not a believer or he is a Christian but he’s real careful with how he spends his money and he really watches after it. And he’s not as excited about us giving to the extent that I would like to.

How would you help a woman in that situation? Her heart is to give. She says, “I don’t know that I have the freedom to give, based on my particular marriage situation.”

Randy: That’s a great question. My mother was a believer who came to Christ a year after I did when I was in high school. My father was an unbeliever until just a few years before he died. So my mom and I would talk about this very thing. She wanted to give, but she didn’t have a separate income. My dad was a very anti-Christian and anti-church and thought Christians were hypocrites and that sort of thing.

He didn’t want any money to go to the church. Well, she had to get really creative. One of the things that I would say to women whose husbands are Christians—it’s a bit different. I think they need to lovingly confront in a careful, thoughtful, submissive way. They need to realize that God has put them in their husband’s life for a purpose and they need to not only help him feel good, they need to help him be good.

That’s part of our ministry. I think a woman needs to be able to ask a husband, “What are your convictions about giving? What do you think the Bible says about giving? Obviously, we’re Christians. We want to follow Christ. What do you think? What is your understanding of what Scripture says? Help me to understand better.”

I think that appropriately puts leadership into his lap to be able to say, “Well, now if I am a Christian, I need to take seriously what God’s Word says. So let me take a look at this.”

I think it’s very appropriate for her to provide some material for him, to give him a copy of The Treasure Principle or anything else on this subject of giving and just say, “Could you read this?” Or maybe, “Could we read this together?” Just to say, “Let’s talk about this area, because it seems to me that it’s an important area.”

Then that doesn’t immediately force the issue. It’s not, "I need a decision tomorrow on 'Are we going to change our giving?'" But, “Would you lead me?” and “Can we discuss this thing?” Whether it’s over a period of months or whatever it might be. And it's, “Can we pray about this?”

Now, in the case of the woman who is married to a non-believer, obviously it’s a little bit different because she’s probably not going to ask him to be consistent with his convictions because he probably doesn’t have those convictions.

But I think there is one thing that can be done in terms of a woman coming to her husband and saying, “Here’s how much money we spend on food each month." In most households the woman is buying the groceries and that sort of thing and probably taking care of a lot of other things as well.

She maybe has a budget, whether it’s an official budget or not, she spends a certain amount of money on clothes or occasionally eating out with friends or whatever it might be.

If she can come to her husband and say,

Here’s how much money per month we’re spending on food and my clothes and maybe a special interest class that I’m taking or whatever it might be. I would like to propose cutting out this much money from what we’re already spending and taking that, and I would like to be able to give that to my church.

It’s something that I would feel good about, and I’m going to do everything I can. I’m going to make a commitment to not make this above and beyond so you will not feel the difference with this. As a matter of fact, the only way in which you may feel the difference is through God’s blessing.

Because I believe God will honor and bless this in maybe some tangible material ways, but certainly in other ways. That’s part of my conviction as a Christian. So I’m asking you to work with me on this, and let’s give God a chance to bless this action. Is that okay with you?

Now, most husbands would be, "Oh, you’re actually saying that I won’t feel this? Well, go ahead.”

Now, I understand that there are some cases in which somebody who has some very—somebody like my dad might have said at that point, “No. I don’t feel good about that.”

I think—certainly in light of 1 Peter 3 and other passages—you need to be very careful, submissive to your husband. But at the same time, 1 Peter 3 says, “They may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives when they see the purity and reverence in their lives” (verse 1).

I think conviction and desire to carry out conviction is one of the ways that husbands can be won over. So I don’t think women need to feel like, “Okay. I can broach the subject once. If he responds negatively, that’s it forever. To be a submissive wife, I need to not give.” I don’t think that’s the solution.

Nancy: What an opportunity for a woman to make this a matter of prayer and to seek the Lord, because giving requires faith. If your husband doesn’t want to give, then your faith is in God, who says that the king’s heart is in His hand. God is able to turn the heart of that husband as the woman places her case before the Lord and says, “Lord, You know my heart.”

Randy: Right.

Nancy: In fact, 2 Corinthians 8 tells us that what matters is that we have a willing mind, and then God accepts that which we are able to give.

Randy: That’s right. If the worst case scenario is still not getting your husband’s encouragement or even permission to give, at least you are able to say, “Okay, Lord. You know my heart in this. You know my desire. I can give and will give of my time and give of my abilities. I will go out of my way to do that all the more in light of the fact that I’m not in a position, because of what you say in my relationship with my husband, to be able to give at the levels I’d like to give now.”

Nancy: So she can still be a generous, giving-hearted woman.

Randy: That’s right.

Nancy: Let me just add here, I think we need to encourage women who have a heart to give and often women are the ones who are listening to Christian radio programs, hearing, being exposed to ministries that have financial needs, and may often want to be the ones first to give.

But I think we also need to encourage those wives to go to their husbands, particularly believing husbands, and to talk about it together. What a way for a couple to grow spiritually together in the grace of giving, and not for one of the other to act independently to the other.

In fact, you were sharing with me yesterday how you and your wife have really grown together in this grace of giving.

Randy: That’s right. My wife, Nancy, we will sit down and talk about an opportunity to give. For instance, periodically, we have special missions offerings and famine relief offerings at our church. We have a regular amount that’s a little bit above a tithe that we always give, no matter what, to the church. But then we have other ministries that we support in these special offerings at our church.

We will talk about, pray about, and then we’ll sit down together. Sometimes we’ll write down a specific figure, or we’ll just think of the figure. And we’ll go, “Okay. I’m thinking this." And you’re thinking whatever you’re thinking. Okay. "Now, let’s make our decision how we feel that God is leading us here, and now let’s compare the figures with each other.”

My wife is very generous and is a very servant-hearted person. But sometimes she would get a little bit discouraged because perhaps I have the gift of giving and maybe it’s easier for me in certain respects just as other more Christ-like attributes are easier for her than they are for me.

Maybe in this area it’s a little easier for me sometimes. So it would be a little discouraging to her because my figure would tend to be the higher figure. But I remember one time sitting down, maybe it was a year ago, where she came up with a higher figure than I did. And she was just thrilled, and so was I. I just thought this was so great, because she’s been stretched a lot. I think her reward will be greater as a result of that

Again, very generous, but also feeling more like, "Hey, it’s just normal in this society. We give the minimum of the ten percent. We give considerably beyond that. Do we need to keep increasing our level of giving?"

But this has been so great for us to communicate about. There have been times where there’s been some kind of rough edges we’ve had to work out together, but it’s been very growing and building. I would really encourage women, don’t back away from this.

Of course, don’t hound your husband or nag your husband in this area. But nonetheless, don’t back away from it. If you have a husband who God has given a gift or an orientation for giving, do all that you can to encourage that. That spiritual dynamic will carry over to every other aspect of his life, and you will be getting a more godly, better husband.

Don’t hold him back in the giving. Encourage him in the giving, even though that’s going to require some faith and stretching on your part.

Nancy: Randy, I think for some women in particular this whole area of giving brings up some fear. I think particularly of widows or those who are living on a limited social security or retirement income or single women who may feel, “I don’t have someone providing for me. If I’m really giving generously, how do I know that down the road long-term, when I’m old and can’t provide for myself—how do I know that my needs are going to be meet?”

Randy: Well, that is a challenge. Scripture gives many examples of women who are givers and one of the most well-known and most powerful is the poor widow.

There it is in Mark 12,

Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were being put and watched the crowds putting their money into the temple treasury. Many rich people threw in large amounts. But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins worth only a fraction of a penny. Calling his disciples to Him, Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all of the others. They all gave out of their own wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything—all she had to live on (verses 41-44, NIV).

He set up this woman as an example. I think it should be a reminder to all of us that, yes, we do have legitimate needs and God does care about our needs and God will provide for our needs. But that God will also take Himself the responsibility to provide for us when we stretch ourselves and in faith step out as this poor widow did.

And let’s face it, what we would consider to be stretching ourselves in faith would probably not go nearly as far as being a poor widow who gives away literally everything she has to live on.

And if Jesus commends this, surely He will commend your generous giving and will be there to provide for you.

Nancy: My dad used to say that our giving is really a reflection of how big we believe that God is.

Randy: That’s so true.

Nancy: It troubled him that most people give what they think they can afford to give, based on what they perceive that they have. To him that was walking by sight and not by faith. And he said, “Our giving should be a reflection of how big and how great we believe God to be.”

And for him, by the way, that meant that in times of loss financially—my dad was a businessman. He had times where his company was doing quite well and was making money. But he had other times when there were reverses and/or the economy was a factor or whatever, and the company was not doing as well—in those times he felt that’s time to stretch your faith and to trust God to help you find out how to give more.

My mother remembers, telling about one of those particular times when he came home and said, “We’ve already cut the budget. We’ve tightened the belts. But I think God wants us to give more.”

She’s a very practical woman, and she loved him and she loved giving. She was great at following his leadership in this area. But she confesses now to feeling a little concerned about—it didn’t seem to make human sense. And you know, giving God’s way really doesn’t make human sense. It makes sense in God’s economy.

To be giving in a time of economic slow-down or recession or at a season of life when you don’t have as much, there are those that would tell you today, “That’s acting irresponsibly.” And you’re saying it’s really acting responsibly if your life is lived in the sphere of the kingdom of God and eternal realities.

Randy: That’s right. Malachi 3 says, “'Test me in this,' says the Lord,” and it speaking not only in tithing but in the free will offerings, “and see if I will not open the heavens and pour out great blessing on you” (verse 10).

It’s not always in an exact material form that we can see clearly, but it’s that sometimes he has the dishwasher and the washer and the dryer that are twenty years old keep operating and a car that has two hundred thousand miles plus on it keep going. We have seen God just extend the life of things around us when we have chosen to give.

And He blesses in such great and encouraging ways. We need to just give Him the opportunity. It’s not often God says, “Test me in something.” And when He does, we should take it seriously and joyfully and go for it.

Nancy: I think that most of us never find out what it is that God could do if we’d give him the chance.

Randy: Amen.

Nancy: If we’d test Him in every area of our life, if we’d really walk by faith and say, “I’m not going to rely on my own natural, human reasoning. But beyond that, beyond just wisdom and clear-headed thinking, I’m willing to step out onto a limb to trust God, to step out where my dad would challenge us."

He’d say, “If you’re going to live by faith, you need to step out on a limb so far that if God doesn’t come through, you’re not going to make it.” That’s when you begin to enter into the realm of omnipotence and the power of God and to see God act on your behalf.

Randy: Amen.

Nancy: Randy, I believe that many of our listeners really want to do what the Scripture says, and that is to excel in this grace of giving. So I’d wonder if you’d just take a moment to pray for us and ask that God would make these biblical principles of giving a reality in our lives.

Randy: Father, You are a great and awesome God, and that is so true that our giving is a reflection of how big we believe You to be. When we give and we see your faithful response, then we’ll see your bigness in greater ways.

I want to thank you, Lord, for all the women who are listening today. Thank you for their servants’ hearts as they minister to their children, to their friends, to their family members. And we pray, Lord, that one day we would stand before you and by your grace, hear those words, “Well done, my good and faithful servant.”

Thank you for the example of the poor widow who entrusted herself to you, not knowing that she was going to be used as an example for the next few thousand years, just doing faithfully, quietly what You observed. You observe the faithful, quiet acts that people do for You.

And we pray, Lord, that we would do that in a spirit and a heart of giving, giving of money, giving of time, giving of the talents that You’ve entrusted to us. And Lord, we thank you and praise You that You are the greatest giver of all. In Jesus’ name.

Nancy: O Father, when we think about giving, we have to think about You, because You are the ultimate giver. We’re never more like you than when we’re giving. Thank you for being such a joyful, generous, open-hearted giver, for loving the world so much that You gave the best that You had. You gave Your Son for us.

Thank You for the Lord Jesus, who is Your indescribable gift to us. And Lord, our desire is that our lives would match Your giving, that we would reflect Your heart in our giving and that we would discover that treasure principle, that everything that we have should not be held on to, because it belongs to You and sooner of later we’re going to part from it.

I pray that You’d show us how, through the grace of giving, to send on treasure ahead of us that we will be rich in eternity and will have to offer You that which is worthy of You. I pray for Jesus’ sake, amen.

Leslie: Randy Alcorn and Nancy Leigh DeMoss have been providing something each of us needs: trustworthy financial advice. He spoke with Nancy Leigh DeMoss several years ago about what it really means to store treasure in heaven.

And Nancy, those words resonate today more than ever.

Nancy: That’s true. As we listen to the news and read the accounts of what’s going on, we’re reminded every day that nothing is stable except God Himself.

We’ve watched as supposedly unshakeable institutions have failed or received bailouts. It’s a reminder that ultimately we can’t trust the economists, experts, or even ourselves for the future. We can only trust the Lord.

The only investments that are really safe are those that are eternal. I want you to know that we’re praying that God will show His incredible power and grace in the lives of our listeners who are struggling financially.

We’re also praying that as millions face pay cuts, job losses, and falling net worth, God will revive His people and show them the joy of living for eternity.

Then we’re praying that God will meet our needs as a ministry during this season. We can’t function without the prayers and the financial support of our listeners. And during this recession, as we’ve been sharing with you in recent weeks, donations have fallen substantially.

For the past six months we’ve operated under a reduced budget. We’re about to move into the summer months when donations are traditionally down, even in a stable economy. That makes this week crucial. Our fiscal year ends on May 31, and we’re asking the Lord to help us end this month with over $300,000 in donations.

This will help us through the lean summer months and will allow us to make up our current budget deficit, ending the fiscal year in the black. And it will help us through the lean summer months.

If we don’t make up the shortfall, we’ll be looking at some tough choices to cut back on ministry outreaches.

We’re evaluating each radio market to see if the response in that area is sufficient to keep this program on the air. So if this ministry has been a blessing to you, and if you want to see women called to freedom, fullness, and fruitfulness in Christ, would you ask the Lord what He would have you to give to help us in this last crucial week of May?

When you make a donation of any amount, we’ll say thanks by sending you The Treasure Principle by Randy Alcorn. This is a great book. It’s easily readable. It’s something you’ll want to highlight and ponder and share with others as well. It will show you how to invest your life in something far greater than temporary wealth.

And if you’ve never given before to Revive Our Hearts, along with the book, you also have an extra incentive to give. Each gift from new donors this month is being doubled by some friends of the ministry up to $40,000.

So if you’ve never contacted us before, you can double your gift and receive The Treasure Principle by Randy Alcorn. If you’ve stood with us before, we need to hear from you as well, and we’ll be glad to send you your copy of The Treasure Principle.

Leslie: Call us at 1-800-569-5959, or you can donate on line at ReviveOurHearts.com.

You have a rare chance to interact with Randy Alcorn today at our website. He’s part of a blog at ReviveOurHearts.com, answering questions from our listeners. Join him at the blog at the bottom of this page.

The concept of inheritance is being rethought by a lot of people in light of falling investments. But no matter what the stock market is doing, you can leave a valuable inheritance to those who come behind you.

Nancy will explain how tomorrow on Revive Our Hearts.

Revive Our Hearts with Nancy Leigh DeMoss is an outreach of Life Action Ministries.

 

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Read and post comments about: Giving Back to a Generous God

*The following comments do not necessarily reflect the views of Revive Our Hearts. We reserve the right to remove comments which might be unhelpful, unsuitable, or inappropriate.

 

"We have a large amount of items we are ready to sell or consign...mostly children's clothing and toys but some other household items as well. We were planning on selling these and using them toward paying off our mortgage principle, but would you advise just giving them away? We regularly tithe and give chartably to Christian organizations, so I am referring specifically to the items we could liquidate for extra cash. Do you see selling them as laying up treasures on earth? Thanks for your help."

Marlo (on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 at 6:13 AM)

"Thank you so much for taking questions! I was thinking yesterday during the show that I would really like to talk with you to see what you think God's perspective is on an issue... and then I heard about the blog today! Praise the Lord! The question I have is that we are reaping consequences from bad choices... my husband and I have a young family and are still payng down 100,000 dollars of student loans from both of us going to a private university. We have been counciled in a number of ways on this. One is that you continue giving SO THAT God will meet your need (which is much like the "prosperity gospel" and we believe the motive for giving is not right). So we've written off that one. Then we were taught that we need to be faithful, even if the budget is tight, to give at least 10%, and that that should be our FIRST check we make out each month (even if we know we won't make our other bills) as evidence of the priority of God and His church in our lives. We've also heard it taught that since we're in debt, our money is not our own so we need to work really hard to pay that back so that our money is freed to give back to God... that debt makes us a slave to debt, and we need to be freed to serve God. Along with that is the idea that the 10% tithe was extended by Jesus to be giving of everything... even to our very lives. So I know a family that gives much more than 10% to various ministries, but they say that that is not their tithe, that their life is their tithe. I understand what you are saying about the heart of giving, but I was wondering what is the biblical approach in these situations? Another part of this is our strong burden to adopt, but we don't feel we can be in the place to begin that until we are freed from this debt. Thank you so much for your life and your ministry, and for taking time to look at our questions!"

Becky (on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 at 8:30 AM)

"I hear all kinds of financial advice in today's times. I've heard about investing and saving and preparing for the future (i.e., children's education or for retirement). What would you say would be the best financial advice for someone who is just starting out with children and marriage and really doesn't know what to do with their finances?"

Jodi (on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 at 8:34 AM)

"My husband and I got married at 40, eight years ago (first time for each, no kids) We've always kept finances separate, except a joint account to pay bills. I give to God out of my own account, and as far as I can tell, my husband gives nothing, though he says he's a Christian and goes to church. He says tithing is Old Testament. Is there any way to encourage him to give?"

Kc (on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 at 10:05 AM)

"I would like to thank you Randy for your many books including The Treasure Principle and I pray that the Lord contiue to bless you, your family and your ministry as you continue to do His work here on earth."

Barbara (on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 at 10:36 AM)

"I just want to say thank you to Nancy and to Randy for this taking the time to focus on this topic and helping the body of Christ with practical godly advice - esp in these challenging times. Randy, I've enjoyed your books for a few years and am so blessed that a great fiction author offers even greater straightforward guidance on how to love and serve our King. God bless you both - and all the folks who fix their hearts on serving the Lord instead of mammon.. Let the words of our mouths and the meditation of our hearts be acceptable in Your sight, O LORD, our strength and our Redeemer."

Loretta (on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 at 12:20 PM)

admin signature"Dear Anne (from yesterday's post),

A good and difficult question. My own mother wrestled with it when she came to faith in Christ after I did, but my father was adamantly against giving anything to the church or missions. He didn't come to Christ until years after she died.

You are certainly right to pray for your husband. That may be your greatest gift to him in this situation.

I will first try to answer the question for the benefit of those without believing husbands (most of which applies also to those with believing husbands), then bring it home at the end to your specific question.

On the one hand, it's not God's desire for a woman to be her husband's moral judge and guide. She is to be submissive to her own husband so that "even if he is disobedient to the word, he may be won without a word by the behavior of his wife as he observes her chaste and respectful behavior...and let her adornment be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit which is precious in the sight of God." 1 Pet.3:1-4

On the other hand, the Christian wife is to be a moral example to her husband by seeking to obey God and act on her conscience. In this sense, while she is not her husband's moral judge, she SHOULD be his moral example, as the text indicates in relation to her behavior. She should show him what Christlikeness means.

I believe wives should submit to their husbands except when doing so involves violating God's commands. A wife can't and shouldn't force her husband to give, but she can and should give of her income, even if he disapproves (she should, of course, sweetly communicate her conviction and not try to anger him). The 1 Peter 3 passage pertains, as it shows the importance of being a good example and not preaching at her husband.
I think showing him the depth of her conviction through her own giving is part of that example.

I have encouraged women in this situation to go to their husbands, explain their deep conviction about giving, perhaps share one of the passages about how God blesses givers, and tell him she believes God will provide for their family so that the amount she desires to give won't be noticed by him, even if it is substantial. For instance, she has calculated that she spends X number of dollars on clothes, food, etc., and she will reduce those amounts and give from the reduction. Or, she has a health club membership that costs $X per month, and she will drop the membership and give that amount away. Perhaps seeing her sincerity in this, he will agree without these reductions being necessary, or perhaps he will agree to the test to see what happens. I do encourage Christian wives to get creative and find ways to honor God first, and show their husbands both their faith in God and their desire to honor their unbelieving husbands.

Now, in the case of the believing husband the same things above apply, BUT there is one more element. If your husband knows Jesus he has the indwelling Holy Spirit who can give him insight and empower Him to obedience. Because of his profession of Christ, he is held to a higher standard. It is appropriate to say to him, not in anger but with grace, that perhaps he should trust God to undergo this experiment of giving more. God says in Malachi 3, "test me in this and see." If he is a believer, it is God's job, not yours, to convict his heart and challenge his faith, BUT I think it is your job to graciously let him know that he needs to think through what God says in His Word about giving. Don't nag him, but do let him know that God addresses this issue and that you want him and your family to experience God's blessing. --Randy Alcorn"

Randy Alcorn (on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 at 1:36 PM)

admin signature"Dear Kc,

Thanks for your good question, another difficult one.

I detest legalism, and tithing is certainly not the whole of giving.

There were freewill offerings in the OT, and there were tithes. Some say NT giving is freewill whereas OT giving was mandatory, but this is an artificial example, since the OT overflows with examples of freewill giving, and even Malachi 3 speaks of robbing God not merely by withholding the tithe (mandatory giving) but the offerings (freewill giving).

Sadly, what people call "grace giving" means give whatever you feel like. But since most people don't feel like giving, 40% of Christians give nothing, and the average Christian gives 2.5%. This is one quarter of what God required of the poorest people in the OT. We act as if the New Covenant lowers God's standards, while the Sermon on the Mount shows us repeatedly God raises his standards, and empowers us to live by them.
Read 2 Corinthians 8-9 and ask yourself if this passage fosters a sense that we should give less or more than OT believers.

To me, giving less than a tithe is simply not an option. Someday I'm going to stand before God and give an account of my life (Romans 14:12).
On that day I do not want to have to explain why, being indwelt with the Holy Spirit and having lived in the most affluent nation in human history, I failed to give at the very minimal level of those who did not have the indwelling Spirit and owned far less than I.

Many, including apparently your husband, say that the tithe was an Old Testament standard, and we're no longer under the law but under grace, so tithing isn't a requirement for us. Of course, marital faithfulness and honesty and integrity and refraining from stealing were Old Testament standards too. But let's say he's right that tithing was meant for OT believers, not NT. But does he really think God doesn't have a will for New Testament Christians when it comes to giving, or that he has lowered the bar of what he expects of us?

Isn't every example of NT giving MORE radical, not less radical than the tithe. Look at Zachaeus and the poor widow of Mark 12, the Christians of Acts 2 and 4, the converted occultists of Acts 19 (who burned their priceless magic books), the poor Macedonians who out of their extreme poverty, in great joy gave far beyond their ability.

In my book Money, Possessions and Eternity I talk about tithing being simply the training wheels of giving. Once you learn to ride you no longer need the training wheels. But countless people testify, and I'm one of them, that the discipline of tithing is how they learned to give.

By God's grace, like others we know, Nanci and I now give away the majority of our income. But it was beginning with the tithe that taught us about giving, and as we gave beyond the tithe, we experienced his blessing and he entrusted more to us to give away.

My question about the great majority of Christians who give less than 10% is this: Are we failing to learn what real grace giving means because we children of grace are failing to start at the minimum level God started his children under the Old Covenant?

The concepts behind the first fruits-the ownership and worthiness of God and the servanthood and indebtedness of humans-are as true today as they were in the Old Testament. And surely the gratitude of God's people should be far greater on this side of Calvary than the other!

I view the tithe of 10% as I view a child's first steps. His first steps are not his last, neither are they his best, but they are a fine beginning. So is the tithe. Tithing is for many the first toddler's step of stewardship. It may not be a home run, but it gets you on base-which, sadly, is a lot further than the majority of Christians in our culture ever get.

Investing in eternity,

Randy Alcorn"

Randy Alcorn (on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 at 1:47 PM)

admin signature"Dear Lori (from Monday's post),

Though I answered this questioning in response to Kc's question that included Tithing, we have about three dozen articles related to various aspects of giving and tithing at our website, at http://epm.org/artman2/publish/tithing_and_giving/index.shtml

But let me add something here in relation to your question, Lori, which I hope may be helpful.

Two reasons commonly given for not tithing are:

"I can see it's right to tithe, but I must pay off my debts first." Why am I in debt in the first place? Is God responsible for my unwise or self-serving decisions that may have put me there? And even if I have come into debt legitimately, isn't my first debt to God? If we obey God and make good our obligations to Him, He will help us as we seek to pay off our debts to others.

"I can't afford to tithe." Of course I can. What if my salary was reduced by 10%? Wouldn't I continue to live? And if tithing is God's will and He promises to provide for those who trust and obey Him, won't He allow me to get by on 90% rather than 100%? In fact, am I not a lot safer living on less inside the will of God than living on more outside it?

Never put off obedience. The moment of conviction and enlightenment is the moment to act. To procrastinate is to disobey. Trust Him enough to begin this life-changing, eternity-impacting adventure of giving.

Scripture makes clear that in many cases God blesses us financially when we generously give (Proverbs 11:24-25; Luke 6:38). "Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously" (2 Corinthians 9:6).

When God prospers us in this way it is not merely to give us new toys and more beautiful homes but to allow us to give still more: "You will be made rich in every way so that you can be generous on every occasion"
(2 Corinthians 9:11). God's extra provision is usually not intended to raise our standard of living, but to raise our standard of giving.

Investing in eternity,

Randy Alcorn"

Randy Alcorn (on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 at 1:55 PM)

admin signature"Dear Jodi,

I have the greatest appreciation for Nancy Leigh and Revive our Hearts, and I'm glad to be with you today. Thanks for this question, Jodi.

If you do just two things, you will have cornerstones of living wisely financially.

First, commit yourself to regular giving to your local church and above and beyond giving to missions and other ministries. Begin by setting an amount. In my opinion, not less that 10%. Then stick with it, so that you are honoring God with the first fruits as Scripture commands us to do (that command is never rescinded in the NT). If you want God to bless your life and your finances, don't place yourself under the curse of disobedience.

Secondly, do all you can to avoid going into debt. Since I've already talked about giving, I'll focus here on debt.

The New American Standard Bible translates Romans 13:8, "Owe nothing to anyone." This would appear to prohibit debt. The New International Version reads, "Let no debt remain outstanding." This translation would allow debt, but insists it be paid off as soon as possible.

Hudson Taylor and Charles Spurgeon believed that Romans 13:8 prohibits debt altogether. However, if going into debt is always sin, it's difficult to understand why Scripture gives guidelines about lending and even encourages lending under certain circumstances. If debt is always sin, then lending is aiding and abetting sin, and God would never encourage it.

Being in a position to lend money to others is a blessing, whereas being the borrower is a curse (see Deuteronomy 28:44-45). Unless there's an overwhelming need to borrow, it's unwise for God's children to put themselves under the curse of indebtedness. At the very least, Romans
13:8 proves that we shouldn't normally borrow, and should always pay off debt as soon as possible. The common practice of borrowing monthly and making partial payments violates this principle.

That "the borrower is servant to the lender" doesn't absolutely forbid debt, but it's certainly a strong warning. God says we're not to be servants of men (see 1 Corinthians 7:23). How can we be fully free to serve God when we're indentured to human creditors?

The choice to live under debt (except in manageable amounts, e.g. with a mortgage payment that is modest and reasonable in a house well within your means) is ultimately degrading and deadening to the soul and to a marriage. It is always unwise to live above your income. More marriages are damaged by financial issues than anything else. And more lives are disengaged from a walk with Christ through unwise money decisions.

The effects on children are serious, in that the raised stress level of the home affects them to, not to mention the bad example of unwise choices. We are raising a generation of young people who, statistics indicate, are not generous givers and who are addicted to the debt mentality. Who are they learning this from? We as parents need to intervene and change the example we are setting for them. Likewise, church leaders can help this by not taking on large indebtedness on the church. When churches go ten million dollars in debt for a new building, what example does that set for the congregation?

I am very pro-church and respectful of church leaders, so I want to be clear here that I do not hold to the anti-church mentality that is poisoning many believers today. I love the church, imperfect as it is, but I do believe church leaders need to show the way by being generous in giving away larger and larger amounts to outside ministries, as well as avoiding crippling debt.

I have chapters on giving, tithing and debt, as well as lifestyles, savings, and teaching our children about money, in my book Money, Possessions and Eternity. If you can't afford to buy it, give us your address and we'll send it to you at no cost.

Investing in eternity,

Randy Alcorn"

Randy Alcorn (on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 at 2:24 PM)

admin signature"Dear Becky,

I so appreciate your heart, Becky. Thanks for your question.

I disagree in the strongest possible way with those who argue that since we're in debt we shouldn't give to God until we get out of debt.

I agree 100% with the position that we need to be faithful in our giving, maintaining it in difficult times and increasing it if we haven't been giving much in the past. Often our lack of giving has been a large part of our financial problem. Certainly, it is never a solution to it.

I think we need to follow your example, *, and take an honest look at past decisions that have put us in financial difficulty. Where in the Bible does it say we should go to an expensive university rather than a community college? Or choose an expensive car rather than a cheaper one?
Or go to expensive restaurants or buy nice clothes? Often we mistake our wants for needs.

Through debt sometimes we unconsciously try to maneuver God into a position where he's obligated to "provide" in the form of our future payments. In a role reversal, we set up the rules of the game and then expect God to play by them. Assuming the role of Master, we demote God to the obedient genie, who exists to underwrite our causes and fulfill our agendas. In such cases debt is not merely unwise, but evil.

God sometimes disciplines us by making us face the consequences of unnecessary debt. I commend you for recognizing that, and the rest of us should do the same. When we go into debt for illegitimate reasons, we go on our own. God isn't party to our decision, and he isn't obligated to fulfill our financial commitment, which we made outside of the direction of His Word and His Spirit.

Now, here's how this relates to the giving issue. Debt is especially dangerous when we're tempted to rob our primary creditor (God) to pay our secondary creditors (people).

Some Christians give nothing to God, while others reduce their giving to make monthly payments on conveniences. I've heard people say that it would be a "poor witness" not to pay their bills. They suppose that God would have them pay their creditors rather than give him the first fruits. One Christian financial counselor routinely advises people not to give anything to God unless they are completely out of debt. (Some have received this advice from Consumer Credit Counseling Service, a service I otherwise recommend.)

If we're faithful in our giving to God, only then can we look to him for help in finding the resources to pay others. God says when his people give him tithes and freewill offerings, he will "throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it" (Malachi 3:10). Isn't that exactly what people need if they want to get out of debt?

God tells his people that because they spent money on themselves that they should have given to him, he put holes in their purses (Haggai 1:2-11). Jesus says that with the measure we give to God it will be given back to us (Luke 6:38). The more serious our financial problems, the more critical it is that we do what God says will result in his provision-give! (That is not prosperity theology, which I detest, it is the promise of God's Word.)

A creditor may say, "Nobody should give to their church until they pay me off." But we owe the first fruits to God, not the last fruits. Those who put God first will pay off their human creditors, while those who put human creditors before the divine Creditor always get into trouble.
They are right to make every effort to pay people what they owe them, but they are wrong to do so from the first fruits that God says belong to Him, not to us and not to others. We need God's help to get out of debt. When you're asking for someone's financial help, it's generally not recommended that you steal from them to pay others!

God will not eliminate the consequences of our unwise decisions, he wants us to learn through them and experience character-building and conformity to the image of Christ. If by giving to God we can no longer afford to make payments on a loan, then we need to liquidate our assets, take losses where we must, and cut spending to a minimum to eliminate the debt. Quit going to Starbucks, don't hang out at the mall, stay away from eBay, buy clothes at thrift stores, don't go to restaurants, forget the expensive vacations (camp out in your back yard, you can have a blast).

It's shocking how much money we can come up with when we stop spending indiscriminately (as shocking as it is how much time we discover we have when we turn off the TV). Give up these non-necessities at least for a season until you get on top of things. But we should never rob God-not for any reason, and certainly not to compensate for past unwise decisions.

To change the direction of our lives we need to prayerfully make wise decisions, and nothing is wiser than giving first to God, cutting back our expenditures wherever we can, and systematically paying off our debts to others, having placed ourselves through our faithful giving under God's blessing instead of His curse. I wish you the best as you experience the adventure of God's faithful provision when you are committed to be His faithful steward.

Randy Alcorn"

Randy Alcorn (on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 at 4:00 PM)

"Hi Randy,

I was very blessed by your interview with Nancy today, as well as your comments on this blog. Thank you for sharing with us your heart (and many insights) on this matter of giving, finances, etc. My husband and I need to teach our children about these things, and I'm looking forward to reading your book Money, Possessions and Eternity.

Here's a question that might seem very basic. I am commited to giving, and love to do so in obedience to the Lord, yet know I've not always been the "cheerful giver" God would have me be -- do you have any advice about that? Giving regularly to God's work is a privilege, and has become a habit. But I can see there is a need for work in my heart when it comes to that stretched sort of giving -- realizing it's all His, not mine -- and being in faith about future needs. And then, doing it all with joyfulness!

Blessings to you and again, thank you for sharing with us."

Leslie.s (on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 at 4:02 PM)

admin signature"Further comment regarding Prosperity Theology,

In an earlier comment someone mentioned prosperity theology, and in my response I made a passing comment about detesting it. I think I should explain what I mean and what I don't, and how that relates to our giving.

On the one hand, I hate prosperity theology and believe it is from the pit of hell. I just finished a book called If God is Good, and one of the chapters is about the lies of the health and wealth gospel, and how it undermines our faith in God and His Word.

On the other hand, nearly every false doctrine has a true component hidden in it, that gets twisted and perverted. We need to understand it's not only Malachi 3 where God says that he will provide for the faithful giver. Jesus said, Jesus said, "Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." (Luke 6:38).

The more you give, often, the more comes back to you, because God is the greatest giver in the universe, and He won't let you outgive Him. Go ahead and try. See what happens. R. G. LeTourneau invented earthmoving machines. He gave away 90 percent of his income. But the money came in faster than he could give it away. LeTourneau said, "I shovel it out and God shovels it back, but God has a bigger shovel!"

Now, I don't mean that always happens in such extremes, or that you'll never feel your sacrifice when you give (it wouldn't be a sacrifice if you didn't), but Scripture is emphatic on the point that God honors his children's giving.

Health and wealth gospel dishonors Christ, since any gospel that is more true in America than China is not the true gospel. Prosperity theology is built on a half-truth. God often does prosper givers materially. But He won't let us treat Him like a no-lose slot machine or a cosmic genie who does our bidding.

God's payoff is very real, but it comes at the "proper time," which may not be today or tomorrow but in eternity (Galatians 6:9).
God has given you considerable material blessings. Have you ever asked yourself, Why has He provided so much? You don't need to wonder. Paul tells us exactly why He provides us with more money than we need:

Now he who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will also supply and increase your store of seed and will enlarge the harvest of your righteousness. You will be made rich in every way so that... (2 Corinthians 9:10)

So that what? How will he finish this sentence? Prosperity theology would finish it, "so that we might live in wealth, showing the world how much God blesses those who love Him."

But that isn't how Paul finishes it. He says, "You will be made rich in every way so that you can be generous on every occasion." Paul is saying, God doesn't provide for us financially to increase our standard of living, but to increase our standard of giving.

So God comes right out and tells us why He gives us more money than we need. It's not so we can find more ways to spend it. It's not so we can indulge ourselves and spoil our children. It's not so we can insulate ourselves from needing God's provision.
It's so we can give generously.

Once you experience the joy of giving, investing in lives in different parts of the globe, people you will meet in God's presence, all that stuff that will end up in junkyards and landfills isn't so appealing any more.

Randy Alcorn"

Randy Alcorn (on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 at 4:10 PM)

admin signature"Dear Leslie,

Thanks, Leslie. What a good question. Certainly we should seek to cultivate joy in our giving. The joy Nanci and I experience comes in envisioning what God is doing in people's lives for eternity through what we've given to Him.
I recommend meditating on various Scriptures, including Matthew 13 where the man finds the treasure hidden in the field and then "in his joy, he sold all that he had" to obtain the treasure. The key is "in his joy." If we fail to see this, we could feel sorry for the man, saying, "it cost him everything." But we aren't to pity this man; we're to envy him, and follow his example!

His sacrifice pales in comparison to his reward--which is the key to his joyful attitude. Likewise, realizing we are storing up treasures in heaven by giving is the key to our joyful attitude. Giving is a duty, yes, but it is far more. It is an incomparable source of joy.

Like the man finding the treasure, we should consider the costs-to-benefits ratio the benefits far outweigh the costs. The traveler made short-term sacrifices to obtain a long-term reward. "It cost him everything he owned." Sure, but it gained him everything that mattered. The man wasn't exchanging lesser treasures for greater treasures out of dutiful drudgery but out of joyful exhilaration. He would have been a fool not to do exactly what he did.

Likewise, in Matthew 6 Jesus tells us that our giving is in our own best interests: "store up for yourselves treasures in Heaven." He's talking about deferred gratification. The man who finds the treasure in the field pays a high price now by giving up all he has but soon he'll gain a fabulous treasure. As long as his eyes are on that treasure, he makes his short-term sacrifices with joy. The joy is present, so the gratification isn't entirely deferred. Present joy comes from anticipating future joy.

By analogy, have you ever saved money for a future vacation, and taken present joy in anticipating what's ahead, even though for the moment you're cutting back on things you enjoy, such as going to the coffee shop or out to eat? But the future joy looms larger than the present one you forgo. Athletes do this when training for a race. What they hope to win outweighs the momentary sacrifice.

I use this example in The Treasure Principle: Suppose I offer you one thousand dollars today to spend however you want. Not a bad deal. But suppose I give you a choice you can either have that one thousand dollars today or you can have ten million dollars one year from now, then ten million more every year after that. Only a fool would take the thousand dollars today. Yet that's what we do whenever we grab onto something that will last for only a moment, forgoing something far more valuable that we could enjoy later for much longer.

Now, Leslie and all of us, let's consider the present pleasure we would take in anticipating what will be ours one year from now, and every year thereafter. And if this seems like a far-fetched example, on the contrary it understates the case. When we give to God's work today we invest in his kingdom and needy people and Bible translation, ministry to prisoners, the disabled, hungry children, diseased people, all in Christ's name. That investment will yield dividends for all eternity. When we decide whether to keep something or to give it, we should ask how the decision will pay off not just ten days or ten months from now, but ten thousand years from now.

God says "in your presence is fullness of joy, at your right hand are pleasures for ever more" (Psalm 16:11). By forgoing short-term pleasures and giving instead, we secure long term pleasures in God's presence. When we contemplate that reality, when it becomes real to us (and it certainly can and has for countless people), we are infused with joy in giving.
The more we give, the more we delight in our giving and the more God delights in us. Our giving pleases us. But more importantly, it pleases God.

Leslie has been giving despite the fact she doesn't always feel the joy. Some would say, you shouldn't give if you aren't giving cheerfully. They cite, "God loves a cheerful giver" (2 Corinthians 9:7). But God also loves a cheerful parent, which doesn't mean that if you can't take pleasure in changing your child's diaper you shouldn't! So it doesn't mean we should give only when we're feeling cheerful. The cheerfulness often comes during and after the act of obedience, not before it. As in parenting, the sacrifices we make for the ones we love ultimately bring satisfaction.
So we shouldn't wait until we feel like giving it could be a long wait! Just give and watch the joy follow. And if it's not following, we need to envision sitting next to people in banquets on the New Earth, people who will say, "Thanks for giving, so my child could live and so we could hear the gospel!"

God delights in our cheerfulness in giving. He wants us to find joy. He even commands us to rejoice (Philippians 4:4). What command could be a greater pleasure to obey than that one? But if we don't give, we're robbed of the source of joy God wants for us. The Macedonian Christians understood the joy of giving: "Out of the most severe trial, their overflowing joy and their extreme poverty welled up in rich generosity" (2 Corinthians 8:2).

Eric Liddell said, "When I run, I feel God's pleasure." When I give, I feel God's pleasure. There's no better feeling. God's grace to us is the lightning, our giving to Him is the thunder. We give, because He first gave to us.
Let me quote again from the Treasure Principle where I speak of Ebenezer Scrooge, the miser (miserable) who became the giver (joyful). Dickens writes of his transformation:
He went to church, and walked about the streets, and watched the people hurrying to and fro, and patted children on the head, and questioned beggars, and looked down into the kitchens of houses, and up to the windows; and found that everything could yield him pleasure. He had never dreamed that any walk that anything could give him so much happiness.

After his transformation, Scrooge walks through the streets of London, freely distributing his wealth to the needy. He's giddy with delight. He, who only yesterday had scoffed at the idea of charity, now takes his greatest pleasure in giving. On the story's final page, Dickens says of Scrooge:
Some people laughed to see the alteration in him, but he let them laugh, and little heeded them.... His own heart laughed, and that was quite enough for him. And it was always said of him, that he knew how to keep Christmas well, if any man alive possessed the knowledge.

Investing in eternity,

Randy Alcorn"

Randy Alcorn (on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 at 4:52 PM)

"Dear Randy,
I heard the program today 5/27 and understand what you and Nancy said. I have been out of work for over 3 years and have tried to give sacrificially between 5-9% of my former income each year. For the last year I have Not been blessed financially with any significant return even when I did stretch and put myself out on a limb so that if God does not come through I will fail.I have been in debt for over $52,000 during this time or I would give more. Now I am on Dialysis and cannot afford what my insurance will cover(very little of it). I am also running out of savings to live on and will have to file for bankruptcy in 2 months if nothing improves greatly."

Gery (on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 at 5:13 PM)

"I have really enjoyed this weeks teaching and especially when Nancy suggested making a list of our possesions. I have just recently started giving and attending church have been listening for awhile. I am single and want to give more and am thankful that the Lord is changing my heart in this area. I still have alot of questions and much to learn. I want to give more and more. Its is exciting to me but at times I get discouraged. Thanks for the teaching. Penny"

Penny (on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 at 6:49 PM)

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