Living Out the True Woman Message

Oct. 16, 2010 Kay Arthur, Holly Elliff, Dannah Gresh, Mary Kassian, Bob Lepine, Karen Loritts, Carolyn McCulley

Session Transcript

Bob Lepine: Here’s what we thought we would do first this morning: How many of you—I hate to even ask this—how many of you have seen the TV show The View? Raise your hand if you have? I’m like James MacDonald: “So you don’t work either?” Well, we thought we ought to do “the other view” here this morning. (applause)

We’re going to ask six of the women who have been with us up here on the panel or in the breakout sessions to come up. I’ll bring them up: Mary Kassian, Holly Elliff, Carolyn McCulley, Dannah Gresh, Kay Arthur, Karen Loritts. Ladies, come on up. We’re going to have our own little, The Real View.

If you’ll take your places, I’m going to sit down. I’ll be “Barbara Walters.” How does that sound? (laughter) No, no, I don’t think so.

First of all, Kay, I just want to say thank you for yesterday. (applause) As you were speaking, I was thinking of Paul and 2 Corinthians 12 and his thorn in the flesh and thinking how, in his weakness, he was made strong by the Lord. I know that you’ve been battling upper respiratory stuff, and you’ve been weak, and yet nobody knew it while you were teaching. The Spirit of God just came through you powerfully.

Kay Arthur: Thank you. (applause) I just have to tell you that it was a tremendous warfare, and I am so thankful that God was so faithful to speak and to honor His Word. It’s just the Lord, that’s all there is. “It’s not by might; it’s not by power; it’s by My Spirit says the Lord.”

Bob: I think women look at you . . . You travel and speak internationally. You head up an international ministry. I know your schedule. You’re a wife and a mom. We’ve talked about that; we’ve heard you talk about the priority of being a wife and a mom. So back when you had kids at home, how did you juggle it all? How did you do it?

Kay: Well, first of all, I didn’t come to know the Lord until I was 29. I had two sons. I had one at 21, and one at 24. So when I came to know the Lord, then God began to rearrange my life and began to teach me the Word of God. My husband committed suicide. I had told God I’d go back to my husband, and then he committed suicide. So then I married Jack, and we went to the mission field.

All I wanted to be was a missionary. So we were three and a half years in Mexico as missionaries, and I literally devoured the Word of God. It was like Paul being set aside. I devoured the Word of God, and then I became pregnant with David. We had to come home from the mission field. We started off with a student ministry, which we still have. At the time we lived on a 32-acre piece of property, and students came there. I did not travel at that time.

Then eventually I started going to Atlanta every Wednesday, but I would leave after the kids went to school and be home before they got home. So I basically was at home. I cooked. I had my house full of boys because of my three sons, and it was great watching them grow up.

Later on when one of my boys was in college and the other one was in the Navy, then I just had only one at home. I have a husband that is very, very unique in that he is able to live with a strong woman. He has an ego, but his desire has been to see me use my gift. It really is an example of Ephesians chapter 5 where he nourishes and cherishes his wife in that.

So I didn’t start traveling internationally until my boys were gone out of the house. But when I had to travel, I made it a habit to go down to David’s room every night and pray with him and read a biography to him or a Christian story. I had asked God to show me what my son’s gifts were, and one of them He showed me was leadership. Now he is the one who is taking the baton and running with it in this ministry. God has gifted him as a teacher as well.

There’s more I would have done if I had known, but I did the best I could. I also believe that we are called to a cross, and I also believe that when you look at all the Scriptures on discipleship, Jesus Christ has to have the priority. We cannot let our family become our god. We cannot let our husband become our god. There’s only one, and that is God. When we make Him become our God and we honor Him, then He will lead us and guide us and direct us, which will tell us that we are bringing Him pleasure.

Bob: I want to pick up on something you said about Jack being a unique man married to a strong woman. I want to ask Mary, who’s sitting next to you, another strong woman . . .

Kay: No. I didn’t know that, Mary. We had the best time yesterday.

Mary: We did.

Bob: Because we’ve got some strong women out here, talk about being a strong woman and honoring and respecting and coming under your husband’s leadership as a strong woman. How does that work?

Mary: Well, I always have trouble answering that question because, to me, I come under Christ and submit all parts of my life to Him, and I think of who He has made me to be. The godlier I am, the more I am living according to God’s design then submission becomes a smaller issue because my heart is just inclined that way.

God doesn’t violate my personality. He doesn’t violate who I am. I become more Mary the more submitted I am to the Lord. So it’s not like I turn into this weird thing and sprout things from my head because I come under the headship of my husband.

Kay: Don’t you wish that your hair sprouted that way! (laughter)

Mary: It’s true. God doesn’t violate our personalities. So as I’m walking under the lordship of Christ through God’s Spirit . . . Submission to Brent’s headship becomes an issue when I am rebellious to God. That’s when it becomes an issue to me, and that’s when I need to deal with it. But the more I am conformed into the image of Christ, it almost becomes less of an issue because I delight in who Christ is and being like Christ.

So, yes, I am a strong woman, and Brent hears my opinion. Our discussions are lively, and that’s good, but there’s, just in my heart, it’s just who I am. It’s who God created me to be as a woman.

Kay: And we’re help meets. God doesn’t have just one kind of man and one kind of woman. He brings us together, and He’s in the refining process, and where we’re weak, they’re usually strong, and vice versa. So God puts us together as a counterpart, a complementer, a completer. So that as husband and wife He’s not negating who we are or our gifts, but He’s putting us together to accomplish His eternal purposes.

You look at Katie and Martin Luther . . . my goodness. She just came down one day all dressed in black. He said, “What’s wrong?” And she said, “God’s dead.” He said, “Katie, God’s not dead.” She said, “You’re acting like it.” (laughter and applause)

Mary: That’s a great story.

Bob: Holly, we were talking about busyness and priorities and challenges. How many kids do you have?

Holly: Just eight.

Bob: Just eight? You’re a pastor’s wife. You’ve served in ministry for . . . how many years?

Holly: Well, we’ve been married for 37 years, and Billy was already pastoring when we were married, so, 37 years.

Bob: So how do you do it all?

Holly: I don’t do it all. You don’t do it all. Just like Mary said a minute ago, what you do is start listening for the Holy Spirit. There are very few moments in my day when I’m not going to the Lord and saying, “What do I do now?” Literally—moment by moment.

I talked to a young pastor’s wife yesterday after the session. She said, “I don’t know how to get from here to what I think I’m supposed to be.” I said, “Here’s how you get there: You get up tomorrow, and you ask Jesus, ‘What do I do?’ and then the next day you get up, and you say to the Lord, ‘What do I do?’ and you live in moment-by-moment surrender. You take the next small step.”

I can remember Elisabeth Elliot saying, “You take the next right step that God is encouraging you to take.”

So it’s not ever that you do it all, and if we don’t go to the Lord, we will not be doing the right things. We’ll be doing things that are not His best. So, it’s taking the next right step into obedience just like we would teach our kids. But we’ve got to be tuned to the Holy Spirit, or He will not be giving His direction.

So what Mary said a minute ago, when you hear that voice, you need to respond. We need to be listening. He’s been talking to us all weekend. So we take the next right step into whatever God is saying to us.

Kay: That’s so beautiful. Thank you so much. It reminds me of Jesus in John chapter 5. He always and only did those things that pleased the Father. Thank you for your example. It so much simplifies everything, doesn’t it? That includes trust in His leadership and total dependence.

Holly: It’s not that difficult. It’s really simpler than we think. It’s just saying, “Yes,” to what God is directing you to do at that moment and then doing it—by His grace, by His power, through His Spirit and His Word. The hard part is when you’re standing outside the car, and you have to make the choice to remain under what God has called you to.

Bob: How do you replenish? How do you refill the tank? I’m guessing every night you’re exhausted.

Holly: I’m exhausted sometimes in the mornings when I get up. (laughter) One of my daughters who has kids now called me the other day and said, “Okay, just tell me if this is true or not: I’m getting the feeling that I might be tired the rest of my life.” (laughter) I said, “Well, I don’t want to lie to you. That’s a possibility.”

We do have to depend on the Lord moment by moment for the strength which He supplies, and when we do that, He will give us the energy and the strength to do that which He has called us to. The problem is we’re expending our strength in a lot of other places, so we don’t have the energy or the strength do what He is calling us to. But if we’re listening, then our strength is going in the right place.

That’s what enables you late at night to serve your husband, when he is still awake, and wants to be with you, that’s what enables you to go to the Lord and say, “God, just a little more strength here.” (laughter)

Kay: And that’s critical. It’s absolutely critical. Women don’t realize how critical that is.

Bob: Would you like to say a little bit more about that?

Kay: I would like to say a lot, but I’m afraid that . . .

Mary: We’re going to get in trouble again.

Kay: It is so critical. The problem is we’re too tired. The problem is we’re not eating right, our nutrition is not right. We are not getting enough sleep. God just showed me that it was presumptuous sin that I could think I could drive my body and not get the sleep that He says everybody needs. We have to give ourselves to that time because we have to realize the passion and the desire is there and 1 Corinthians 7 says that I do not have authority over my own body, but my body belongs to the Lord and to my husband, and I am to meet those needs. If you will do it, even if you don’t feel like it or whatever, just do it as unto the Lord.

Holly: That’s right. (applause)

Mary: And then the joy comes.

Kay: Yes. Then the joy comes and the satisfaction of knowing that you have done what is right. I’ve been in one of those “I will not” situations, and the Holy Spirit will speak to you.

Mary: Yes. What is that?

Kay: It’s called Christianity—true womanhood.

Mary: That’s right.

Bob: Karen, first of all, I think all of the women here would join with me in saying, “Thank you for your transparency yesterday.” (applause) In the midst of your own struggle to be honest and minister to us out of that, I guess the question I have for you is on the whole issue of forgiveness and rebuilding trust. You talked about this being a 20-year friend of the family who had violated your family? How have you processed this in your own heart, and how have you come to a point where you’re able to forgive him?

Karen: We’re still in process. I made the choice earlier that I don’t have the right not to forgive. Where much is given, much is required. The one thing I’ve learned is that . . . maybe people think I’m in denial or being naïve, but I just look at myself. God has forgiven me much.

One of the problems I’m finding is the reconciliation part; it takes all parties involved. This person is dealing with his/her own stuff, but I have embraced this person, looked this person in the eye, hugged this person, kissed this person, told this person that my love is there for him/her. It’s been real sweet.

It’s been a learning process for me. Like I said, I used to go around every room just quoting Scriptures, making up Scriptures, hitting stuff, but I did that under God’s watchful eye instead of out in public. It’s been tough, but I know I have to forgive because it could be any one of my friends, my family members, anybody can fall into what this person has victimized my family with, and so I had no right to withhold forgiveness. (applause)

Bob: There is a difference between choosing not to continue to punish a person and re-establishing a trust relationship. You said reconciliation is different than forgiveness.

Karen: Oh, yes. Reconciliation takes some work. This person has torn down the walls of trust, so it’s going to take a lot on that person’s part to rebuild trust. The fruit of repentance needs to be shown and space must be given for the offender to show that fruit. But for me, forgiveness was a release that I’m not holding that person . . . I’m not being vengeful. I can’t do that because God will turn the guns on me.

I’m smart enough to know that God is not playing with His children. I don’t have the right to withhold forgiveness, but reconciliation is going to take the parties and rebuilding of trust, if it’s going to be there. It is going to take work. I’ve been helping minister with my children, helping them to walk through that process as they’re all in this reconciliation process, too.

This is hard. Whether a person steals your money, or whatever the thing is, it takes a while to trust. My problem in the early days of that was that I wanted everything to get back to normal really, really quickly, but it does not that way. Everybody has his opportunities to work towards that.

One of the Scriptures that I always would tell my friends and my children is, “Now, be careful, because the body of Christ kept their thumbs on him and wouldn’t let them forget.” That’s a Karen paraphrase. So we have to be careful that we don’t give them a place to repent for that, and I just don’t have that opportunity to shut them away. You cannot do that.

One of the things I have learned is that people who have messed up, they’re messed up. But we’re the ones going to sleep bitter and all that, and they’re the ones going to sleep fine and dandy and all the rest of that. I just get it off the table and say, “God, You help me to help my children.” Forgiveness is off the table, but reconciliation is another issue.

Bob: Dannah, I want to ask you about the next generation of true women. I think for some of these moms who are raising daughters, they look and they say, “I’m trying to cast a vision of the glory of biblical womanhood, but my attempt is being drowned out by the culture. I’m afraid that my daughter is not getting it, that she’s not going to embrace biblical womanhood. What can I do?”

Dannah Gresh: Well, let me start by saying I have two at home, 16, 17, and I’m in the battle every day. There are days when I go to bed, and I say, “Honey, they hate me. They just hate me, and they’re going to hate me forever.” You’ve fought about modesty, or you’ve fought about how they spend their time—not that my girls are investing in bad things, but sometimes there’s just too much world and not enough God—that kind of stuff.

So, Mom, I’m there with you, but be encouraged. I think if you start early—I think that’s the key. If I have a heart for anything, it’s for instilling very critical biblical values before kids are 12, 13, or 14, because those value formation years happen so much earlier. Really, when your little girl is running around, and she wants an ironing board . . . God bless her heart. She’s not going to want an ironing board when she’s 30. (laughter) But she wants that ironing board, and she wants that baby doll because she’s in the copy-cat phase of her life. Anything Mom is, she wants to be.

But the next phase, that maybe 5-6 years to 12 years, is the most critical value formation years of your child’s life, and everything she believes about marriage, about God, about goodness, about purity, about giving rather than being so self-centered, happens in those years, but we wait until they’re older to do that.

We as women are on a big battle ground because, ladies, I don’t know how many women this weekend have come up to me and said, “I have a 19-year old and a 7-year old, and it’s like I’m raising them in two different worlds.”

What has happened in the last five to ten years in our culture is critical. Satan has moved the battle ground of purity for our little girls from 13-14 to like 7. If we do not say, “No,” to the bling, and we do not say, “No,” to the television programs . . . They seem a little innocent, but 7 year olds should not be feasting on boy craziness. It’s crazy. (applause) It puts them on a conveyor belt to early sexualization.

We’re so smart; Christians are so smart. The research indicates that when our little girls get the bling when they’re 7 or 8, and they’re singing, “Don’t you wish your girlfriend was hot like me”. . . I can’t believe that they sing that, but 7 year olds are singing that. Those girls are the ones in their married years that have body image issues and are the most likely to have issues in the bedroom because they got too much too soon. In giving our children too much too soon, they lose it all.

So just say, “No.” That’s all I want to say. Just say, “No. N-O.” (applause)

Bob: Holly, you raised daughters. Did they push back on biblical womanhood?

Holly: I’m still raising daughters. Two of my daughters are here with me this weekend. I have four daughters and four sons. Did they push back on biblical womanhood? They didn’t like the term biblical womanhood because it sounds like somebody you don’t want to be.

Mary:Fuddy-duddy.

Holly: When we first prayed about having a lot of kids, I wasn’t too thrilled with what I might end up being. (laughter) So I understand that, but I think we have to move the issue from just the title of biblical womanhood to who am I going to honor with my life.

The real issue is : Am I going to be God’s woman when I grow up? Whether I’m 5 years old or I’m 20 years old, am I going to be God’s woman as I grow up? Am I going to be a woman who pursues God at every stage of my life? That’s what we want to instill in our kids from the time they’re little all the way up. Because if we can get them to have that heart, if we can teach them that their heart has to be after God, then they’re a lot less likely to walk down another road.

Bob: Teach them how to study the Bible for themselves. Right, Kay?

Kay: Yes. Teach them how to study the Bible just right from the womb. What I mean is you’re talking to them biblical principles, you’re singing to them biblical songs. Even as a little child, they’re growing up . . . I was just with a woman who used to be my assistant. Her little girl was there with us when she picked me up to go to a restaurant. We were sitting and having dinner, and her girl went and got a banana, got up on this little stage, turned around, came out, and sang, “Prone to wonder, Lord, I feel it.” (laughter) She’s three years old, “Prone to leave the God I love.” Then when she didn’t act right afterwards, she threw a little fit, but her mother had her come back in and say to her daddy, “Please forgive me for throwing a fit.” This is a three year old. Instead of learning these songs, she’s learning, “Prone to wander.” We laugh, but it was precious.

Dannah:Women need to understand that you need to be the mom and not the girlfriend. (applause and cheers)

Kay: That’s right. Amen, amen, amen.

Mary: I remember sitting with my husband and going, “Okay, we need to draw the line here. Our son is going to hate us probably, that’s a very good chance, in the short term.” And it happened. He was angry, threw a hissy fit, and yet the fruit that came out of being a parent instead of a best friend, buddy-buddy was worth the cost. That’s what we’re called to be. We’re called to be moms, and moms are not like buddy-buddy girlfriends.

Kay: Study Proverbs and you can learn the benefit of spanking. (applause and cheers) My son was in such a twit, and finally I just said to him, “Mark, I want you to bend over.” And I got mother’s helping hand—which is a paddle—and I whipped him with that paddle. When I got through, he was on his knees, he turned around, he put his arms around me, buried his head in my tummy and wept, and I had my boy back. It’s just that. God knows, and Proverbs is full of good stuff for raising your children.

Dannah: I tell you what, that’s not going to be on The View. (laughter)

Kay: None of this will be on The View, which is sad, isn’t it? It’s absolutely sad.

Karen: I want to say this. Moms, I have two boys and two girls, and I always tell people that boys are easier to raise than girls. Girls are drama queens from birth, but I think that there’s a certain point where we know who we are. We need to rescue our men from these little girls. It’s not cute to say, “This is Daddy’s little girl.” Even though it’s cute for a little bit, but later she will have what I call the Eve syndrome: manipulative, conniving, and no one is going to want to marry her and keep her but her daddy, and we want her to leave our husbands. So work it out.

Kay: My boys were not allowed to date until they were 16, and they were able spot a “strange woman.” I said, “I don’t want any dumb men around the house.” That’s Proverbs 6 and 7, when it talks about an evil woman and an adulteress. In the King James it was called a strange woman and a dumb guy . . . a man lacking sense.

Mary: We had the rule that our boys didn’t . . . Their first official one-on-one date was with a high school grad. That was fine with them. In fact, it let them off the hook because they could blame it on Mom and Dad.

Dannah: You have to instill that in your son when he’s little. Again, you’ve got to do that when he’s in 6 th grade, 7 th grade. I remember a time when Robbie . . . Our youth pastor shaved his head, so my 6 th grade boy shaved his head too. It wasn’t one of my great parenting moments when I heard about it at dinner from my dad. But when Robbie’s hair grew back, it felt so sweet. My daughter Alexie and I were just touching him all the time. Well, Alexie, who was three years younger than he was, came home from the Christian school and said, “Mom, the girls are touching Robbie’s head.”

There were three girls who were walking around school. They had named him Velvet. (laughter) I thought my little Alexie was over-reacting, but one day I pulled up in my white, hot minivan to pick up my children. Robbie popped in the seat, and these three girls, whom I know were from great Christian homes, put their hands in my minivan and rubbed his head, saying, “Goodbye, Velvet.” Ahhh!

Kay: Did the electric window go up immediately? (laughter)

Dannah: I tell you what, I walked over to those girls, and I said, “Girls, come here.” I said, “I love you. I love your families, but I’ve got to tell you something: That is my Velvet. That is mine.” (laughter) I took time in the next few weeks to kind of mentor them. In fact, one of those little girls I mentored all through high school. I took Robbie home that night, and I said, “Robbie, that was not okay. It’s okay for you to say, ‘Girls, that’s not cool.’ Like, ‘Leave my head alone, or whatever.’” But you have to teach them when they’re little to recognize the strange woman.

Kay: I used to tell them, I’d get on the phone, and I’d say . . . because they’d call . . . “Is David there?” “No.” Click. I just said, “I want you to know that my son will know your number, and he’ll call you if he wants to, but nice girls do not call my son, and I don’t want you calling my son.” (applause and cheers)

Bob: Carolyn, you’ve looked carefully at the corrosive influence of feminism permeating the culture. How is it shaping our thinking in ways that we are not even aware of? What do you think?

Carolyn McCulley: Well, I think most people are aware, as I explained in the video, the first wave of feminism was obtaining the right to vote, the second wave - sexual liberation, but the third wave has been far more insidious because it wasn’t politically organized and displayed on television in marches and things like that.

There was a sudden turn in the mid-90s where modesty just went out the window. If you’re old enough, you might be able to remember being able to buy clothes that could cover your body without buying 3,000 layers. Suddenly, even professional women like doctors began to dress immodestly.

So immodesty began everywhere as well as in the media’s messages. You would see the hyper-aggressive sexual female characters start to pop up in all of the television shows and films and things like that. There was this definite pro-pornography push, and push to more overtly change our concept of gender.

So now these girls that are coming of age, they’re living and absorbing these ideas by osmosis through our culture that this is appropriate. I think one of the most ironic things is that one of the great promulgators of this is a television show Sex and the City which I do not recommend watching.

It took one of the male writers of that show to write a book called He’s Just Not That into You, again, not one I’m necessarily recommending, but he’s speaking to the secular culture about explaining if a man is interested in you, he will pursue you, no matter of the litany of excuses you give him for forgetting your phone number, his phone number, or whatever. He’s just not that into you if he treats you poorly or casually contacts you or doesn’t value you. I’m thinking, “What a contradiction. You’re contributing to this culture, this movement, feeding women with false ideas about relationships and how to proceed in them, and then you have to write a book to explain the behavior.”

But he said one key thing. He said, “The women’s movement changed everything for women but nothing for men. We’re still the same, and we will value what we go and get, and we wont’ value what comes too easy for us.” That’s my paraphrase. (applause and cheers.)

Bob: As a single woman, you’ve had to wrestle with embracing what it means to be distinctively feminine without asking the question, “What does that mean as a wife and as a mom?”

Carolyn: Yes.

Bob: So, what have you found is the essence of femininity that isn’t defined around the home?

Carolyn: It was the result of a couple years of study to realize that femininity although often described in relationship to men, the roles that we have is not necessarily conferred upon you just becoming a wife or a mother. It’s something you were born into; you were born female, made in the image of God to manifest those qualities in such a way that glorifies Him. The road map is the same for all of us.

The emphasis is different in different seasons of life, but it’s not like you are cruising on this path and then . . . screech . . . you change over here to be something different. Proverbs 31 shows us how that is to be in all of our lives in every season.

Kay: That’s right.

Bob: I want to ask all of the panelists—these women are about to go from what has been a sanctuary back out into real life. At the hotel, they make your bed for you.

Mary: Oh, yeah! That’s good! (laughter)

Bob: Back home that doesn’t happen.

Mary: Really? (laughter)

Bob: What’s your parting advice to these ladies? Dannah, I’m going to start with you. They’re about to head back into the real world.

Dannah: I’m just thinking somebody probably makes your bed. (laughter) I’m just thinking someone would probably do that. Where’s Mary Anne?

Bob: And God bless her for that, that’s right. (laughter)

Dannah: Last night was a real healing moment for me as I listened to the story of submission. I’ve been married 22 years now. I walked 12 years out of submission and, praise God, I just realized last night I’ve walked 12 years practicing—and I do mean practicing—submission.

I think it’s easier to be the woman that submits when he says, “Honey, we’re moving 18 hours across the country. Can you pack up your bags like a good Christian wife?” It’s so much harder when he’s trying to pick where to park on Sunday morning. (laughter)

But the blessing is that when we get out of the way, that’s when they lead and do everything our hearts desire, and I’ve been living in that blessing for more years now almost than I haven’t.

This morning on the way over here I was struggling with a decision. I was just saying, “God, I’m going to have to deal with that when I get home,” and then I suddenly thought, “No, I don’t because Bob will make a great decision,” and I just rest in that now.

So I say: Go home and just shut your mouth. (laughter and applause)

Carolyn: I want to add something there because that’s not something that you just have to learn when you get married. I’ve been fortunate enough to work for a Christian ministry. My boss helped me to see where I was undermining his leadership at work, where I wasn’t being supportive in church. Whether or not you currently have a husband, there’s a lot of ways to practice submitting to and preferring others and lifting them up even in dating relationships and relationships in the church just between brothers and sisters.

I learned from one woman in my church, who very wisely . . . She had the capacity to administrate and lead a lot, but she would turn around to the brothers instead, and when they’d say, “What are we going to do?” She’d say, “Well, I don’t know. What are you interested in, and how can I help you?” Then she would turn to the rest of us and say, “So and so is planning this event, and we’re all going because we’re not going to look at him and say, ‘We don’t want to do this.’ Because he’s stepping out, we’re going to support him.’”

Mary: It’s a choice. (applause)

Bob: But, Kay, I have to ask you. Dannah gets to go home to Bob who will make a great decision. Some of these ladies are going to go home to husbands who have not made great decisions.

Kay: Most of these women will go home to that.

Bob: So what do you do if you’re going home to a husband, and you go, “I can’t trust the decisions he’s going to make.”?

Kay: In 1 Peter chapter 3, he talks about if you have a husband who does not obey the Word, who is not listening to God, then you’re going to trust God. The example goes back to 1 Peter chapter 2 where it’s talking about Jesus. Let me just hit it for you real quick because it says, “In the same way, you wives . . .” and you go back, and it’s Jesus, and it says:

“You’ve been called for this purpose since Christ suffered for you leaving you an example. He committed no sin”—so if your husband tells you to do something sinful, then you know you can’t do it—“nor was any deceit found in His mouth”—so He didn’t lip off—“and while being reviled, He did not revile in turn; while suffering, He uttered no threats, but He kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously.”

So He tells us that “in this way, in former times the holy women also who hoped in God used to adorn themselves being submissive to their own husbands just as Sarah obeyed Abraham.” If you go through that, it wasn’t always easy to obey Abraham.

Bob: What’s your parting counsel to these women?

Kay: My parting counsel is that when I sit, and I try to do it in the morning, with the Word of God, and I’m not just reading and forgetting, but I study inductively. I read inductively, so I’m discovering what God says. I sit there, and I think, “God, why am I concerned about this thing? Why am I concerned? You are God. Your sovereignty rules over all, and I have only one task in that life, and that is to be pleasing to You.”

So when I’m in the Word, everything else fades because I’m brought face to face with truth and with eternity and with knowing that the way that I live now is preparing me to see my God face to face. (applause)

Bob: We’ve got time for one more of you to offer final counsel.

Mary: Well, I’m along that same line. We’re under such tremendous pressure in our world, like drip marketing . . . drip, drip, drip. We get all these ungodly messages. So the way to combat that, as we move forward, is to make sure that we’re taking in truth and that truth is forming the way we think, so let’s anchor ourselves to it. I want to encourage our audience, to speak truth to ourselves, to read the truth of the Word, and to take this True Woman message further, to read more, to study more, and to make sure that we’re getting it into our systems to counteract those ungodly messages that we hear every day.

Kay: Let me just say really quickly, there was one verse I wanted to say it yesterday. In John 17, in Jesus’ high priestly prayer, He said, “Father, I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but I ask You to keep them from the evil one. Father, sanctify them, set them apart through Thy truth. Thy Word is truth,” just as Mary reminded us.

Bob: You talk about taking the message back home. I think there are some women here from Wyoming who came to True Woman in 2008. They got the DVDs, went back home and did their very own True Woman Wyoming Day or weekend or whatever. You can take the DVDs of these sessions back home to your church, have a True Woman Saturday, a whole month on a Saturday where you come and watch these messages. These 4,000 women can be the catalyst for a movement that would bring revival. (applause)

Kay: Exactly. God didn’t bring them here to have it stay with them.

Bob: That’s right.

Well, it’s been great to have the conversation with you ladies.