Not Even a Hint, with Josh and Shannon HarrisHelping Our Brothers

• Modesty, Sexuality
• Helping Our Brothers
• Aired Thursday, July 29, 2004

Leslie Basham: Here's author Joshua Harris.

Joshua Harris: When you go the mall, when you are trying on a particular outfit, you can't separate that activity from the posture of your heart before God. There's a connection there.

Leslie Basham: Today, we'll explore the connection between our hearts and our clothing. It's Thursday, July 29, and you're listening to Revive Our Hearts with Nancy Leigh DeMoss. Here's Nancy.

Nancy Leigh DeMoss: We've talked many times on Revive Our Hearts about the important role that we have as women in encouraging men in their walk with the Lord and helping them in their battle against lust and helping them becoming sexually pure.

We've talked about ways that women can be a snare to a man or ways that a woman can be a help and a blessing to a man, particularly in the area of moral purity.

As we address that subject again today, I am so thankful to have a man here with his wife to help us better understand the role that we, as women have, on men.

We have been talking in this series with Josh and Shannon Harris. Many of you are familiar with Josh Harris's writings, his first book I Kissed Dating Good-Bye; a sequel to that Boy Meets Girl. And in those books, Josh talked about dating and courtship.

And then a newer book Not Even A Hint: Guarding your Heart Against Lust.

And I'm glad, Josh, that you could be here with us today to help give us a male perspective on this area of moral purity and thank you for coming with your wife.

Thank you, Shannon, for joining Josh today. And I know you'd probably rather let Josh do the speaking. I have been so blessed by your heart and the insight the Lord has given you in some of these areas as well.

Shannon Harris: Thank you, Nancy.

Nancy Leigh DeMoss: Shannon and Josh have two little children, and the things they have learned in their life experience and that God is making real in their lives, they are now getting ready to pass onto their children. So I am sure you are continuing to think about the importance of these issues. You have a little boy and a little girl"¦

Shannon and Joshua Harris: That's right.

Nancy Leigh DeMoss: "¦so you're training up a son and a daughter to think God's way. But Josh, get us started. How can girls help guys in their battle against lust? And here we're about talking about single, married, younger, older, this is a lifetime issue. It's a human issue, not just a male issue. Talk about the impact that we as women have on the men around us.

Joshua Harris: I think it's just so helpful to realize that we are in this together, that it's not the battle of the sexes; it's Christians as brothers and sisters in Christ. Paul urged Timothy [1 Timothy 5:2] to view younger women as sisters, with absolute purity.

And that is really the perspective that we want to have, to recognize that "I can actually play a part in helping others find their joy in God" and assuring that I'm not a stumbling block to them.

But that plays out in the way you act around men, the way that you dress. Clothing is a big issue, obviously. But I think of a quote by Dr. Al Mohler, who is the President of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary.

We were having a conversation, and he made a statement that really floored me but I believe is so true.

He said, "Men are tempted to give themselves to pornography; women are tempted to commit pornography." He's not saying that women are tempted to pose in pornographic magazines or something like that, but the desire can be to dress in a way or act in a way that is primarily designed to stir up lust or desire on the part of a man.

And so, a woman just asking that question of her own heart and saying, "Am I wearing this because I want to glorify God or am I wearing this because I want men to treat me in a certain way? I want them to act a certain way around me; I want the attention that might come with this particular skirt or this particular blouse," or whatever it might be.

Nancy Leigh DeMoss: Let me just interrupt you here and read, Josh, an e-mail I received not too long ago, which just illustrates what you're talking about. This woman said, "I am so guilty of being a shamelessly dressed woman." She said, "I thought I wasn't; and when I realized I was, it was too late. My clothing and my behavior had caught the eye of one of the elders of our church."

She said, "This man befriended me. And I was glad to have the attention he showed me and was at the doorstep of divorcing my husband for him."

And then she talks about how the Lord got conviction to her heart, showed her that she was committing sin and needed to stop. And as hard as it was, that the Lord did help her to get free from the situation. And then she says, "My husband forgave me, but this sin is forever before my face."

And I love this evidence of a repentant heart. She says, "I've since changed the way that I dress, the way that I behave." She said, "I'm sure to never be in the company of a man alone." She says, "I don't even take phone calls from our men friends. I cut the conversation short and tell them that I'll have my husband call when he gets in."

So here's a woman who fell into serious moral sin and starting with dressing for the attention of men, not to speak of the sin she led this other man into, which doesn't mean he's not responsible for his own choices and his own sin. But we see here how the impact that men and women have on each other.

Joshua Harris: That's so true, and I think that some people can hear the whole discussion of clothing and think, You're making too big of deal out of this, making it sound like if you wear a particular outfit you're going to fall into immorality or something like that. I think what you have to realize is that our clothing (this is true of men, too) is an expression of what's in our hearts.

And so the starting point of this lady's problems was a heart that desired the attention of other men besides her husband. That was really the starting point and her clothing was an expression of that and that led to a lifestyle that ended up in serious sin.

But just understanding the idea that when you go to the mall, when you try on a particular outfit, you can't separate that activity from the posture of your heart before God. There's a connection there.

Nancy Leigh DeMoss: Now, Shannon, someone will hear this discussion of modesty, and they will say, "Are you telling me that it's wrong to dress attractively and I'm just supposed to wear bags so that I don't in any way cause men to sin?" How do you respond to that?

Shannon Harris: There's a difference between dressing attractively and dressing to attract. But most importantly, we need to look at our hearts and we want to be serving our brothers.

When we go the mall, we don't want to just be going to please ourselves and, "How can I look better than anyone and what would make me look the most attractive."

Joshua Harris: And I have just been so grateful for Shannon's heart to live this out. I can imagine it would be a real challenge if my wife didn't have a desire to please the Lord, where I'm having to police her clothing or something like that. But she really goes the extra mile in asking me about particular articles of clothing.

Nancy Leigh DeMoss: And in that way, Shannon is not only helping you as a husband, as a man, but helping other men, other husbands, single men, by her desire to clothe herself in a way that reflects a pure heart.

Joshua Harris: That's exactly right. And that gives me such a sense of safety and trust in knowing that her heart is only for me, knowing that she's not buying clothing with an eye to get attention from other men. And I'm grateful for the fact that she does dress, I think, very attractively, very stylishly and I love the way that she dresses.

If you were here, you wouldn't see her in clothing from centuries past or something like that. But the fact is it is possible in this day and age to dress in a way that is attractive, and yet in a way that is also modest.

Nancy Leigh DeMoss: Shannon, you and Josh now have a little girl; and I assume you're starting to think about how you can shape her little heart as it relates to issues of modesty and what's proper and appropriate. And of course, the greatest influence you'll have on her life will be as a mother.

But what are some of the ways that you think you can help shape her understanding the importance of modesty?

Shannon Harris: Well, we're definitely watching over the outward influences that come into our home. Even for me personally, I try not to leave clothing catalogs around everywhere and I think it starts with our example. I think I need to make sure that I'm setting a good example.

If I am just taking her to the mall five days a week and we're shopping all the time, I enjoy clothes and I enjoy shopping, but I want to make sure that she's not brought up into worldliness like I grew up in so I think definitely watching out for those influences.

And we've talked to her about modesty. When she's running around in a little dress and we're about to go to the store, we say, "We need to put on your pants. We need to be modest."

But I do think we cannot overestimate our example as a mother, and that is where they're going to be looking first and foremost. You know, she's going to follow my example on all things.

Joshua Harris: Recently, Shannon bought Emma a little leotard because she was going to take a little gymnastics class. And I thought this was a great way in which Shannon was already starting to train her, but she put Emma in the leotard and said, "Okay, now we need to go to daddy; and daddy's going to look at the leotard to make sure that it's modest, to make sure that it's okay"

And you know, I don't think Emma completely understands what that is all about. But it's just building into her the idea that clothing is not just something that is this independent, "I make all the decision, this is my right," and so on.

But she came and I looked it over and acted like this was a very important thing and said, "Okay, this is a good one; this is modest, this is a good one for you to wear."

Leslie Basham: That's Josh Harris with a good reminder that we need to be training our daughters in modesty. We want this to be a starting point. We want you to apply what the Bible says on this topic to your life. That's why we're making Josh's book available. It's called Not Even a Hint. He and his wife Shannon have also written a helpful study companion guide specifically for women.

Going through that will help you understand what the Bible says on this topic. And it will help you counter the lies that bombard us every day about modesty and purity. You can order Not Even a Hint and the workbook by calling us at 1-800-569-5959.  Or go on-line to ReviveOurHearts.com.

While you're there, you can donate to the ministry of Revive Our Hearts. We're a listener-supported ministry, which means that we need your financial gifts and prayers to keep these programs on the air. Here's Nancy to tell us more.

Nancy Leigh DeMoss: It really has been such a joy to get to know Joshua and Shannon Harris, and just to sense the passion that this young couple has for Christ and for purity.

And I so appreciate their transparency, especially Shannon's as she told us a little more about her background and the grace of God and what it has done in her life.

And as I listen to this couple I just think, Wouldn't it be incredible if God would do this kind of work in the hearts of young women and couples all across this country.

And that's our goal, to use programs like this week's interviews with Josh and Shannon that will deeply touch and impact the lives of not only young women but older women as well.

Let me just remind you that we are a listener-supported ministry, and the only way we can offer programs like this one is through the prayers and the financial support of God's people who say, "I share your burden; I share your vision to see this message get the hearts and homes of women all across this country. And we want to have a part in making that possible."

So if the Lord has blessed you through this ministry, if you want to see it multiply in the lives of other women, would you ask the Lord if He would want you to give a special gift, specially this month, as we're in our difficult time, the summer months; income tends to be lower for the ministry and we need your prayers, we need your financial support at this time.

It would mean so much if God has blessed you and enabled you to be able to give, after you give, of course, to the ministry of your local church

If the Lord prompts you to give to the ministry of Revive Our Hearts, that would mean so much to other young women like Shannon, whose hearts are being revived even as they hear the program this week.

Leslie Basham: You can send your gift to Revive Our Hearts.

Now there are some specific things that a wife could do to help her husband in the area of sexual purity. We'll explore those tomorrow. Please be back for Revive Our Hearts.

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